Revisiting the Disastrous Kotkaniemi Offer Sheet By Carolina

[MacMacandBarbie]

I think I may be misremembering my feelings on the os. At the time.

Looking back I thought it was a brilliant offer because it was essentially zero risk for the hurricanes. They paid basically a TDl rental price for a 20 year old center, bought some good will with the player in the process and looked like they could ink him to a reasonable contract after the 6.1 one year deal was over.

The 8 year contract was a pretty big gamble but they had no RFa rights because of the offersheet. Kk was still looking alright but he was going to have to grow into being a 5m player.

But it was pretty buyout friendly and this is looking like it was a gamble that just didn't work out

Good summary. Overall it seems to have been a move that impacted headlines more than the near or long term future of either team.

 

[bleedgreen]

It didn’t shut their window, but they could’ve spent both the money and draft capital better. Seems like ownership meddling tbh. Their front office is usually quite measured and shrewd, while that offersheet was anything but.

The ownership didn’t have anything to do with the offer sheet aside from signing off on the money. This was a team decision the whole time.

 

[bleedgreen]

Ah yes, giving him a 20$ (Aho's number) signing bonus and their press release was verbatim the same as the Habs one when they offer sheeted Aho. It was petty and 100% a troll job. Glad it backfired and glad your team is not sniffing the Cup for another year.

The poster meant it wasn’t an ownership/team decision troll job to go after the player. They had been trying to trade for him. The twitter account asked Waddell if they could have fun with it so they did. Maybe the team went along with the gag because no press is bad press and the Canes wanted to be more in the spotlight but you have to be smart enough to see beyond the obvious. The Canes were chasing KK, they had negotiations that were amicable on trade offers. The Canes wanted to spend less on the trade than the cost of the offer sheet. MB didn’t bite knowing what he would get for the offer sheet. The Canes signed him. This idea that there was this angry Texas billionaire throwing checks around because he was so angry the Habs did him a favor and signed Aho for cheap is comedy.

Dundon didn’t know hockey. He doesn’t make player moves. He asks the guys who do a lot of questions to understand what they do, that’s it. There’s a line.

 

[newsportsfan123]

Ah yes, giving him a 20$ (Aho's number) signing bonus and their press release was verbatim the same as the Habs one when they offer sheeted Aho. It was petty and 100% a troll job. Glad it backfired and glad your team is not sniffing the Cup for another year.

That was a troll because they knew it would get the social media engagement. They were trying to trade for him prior though.

 

[Harry22]

The poster meant it wasn’t an ownership/team decision troll job to go after the player. They had been trying to trade for him. The twitter account asked Waddell if they could have fun with it so they did. Maybe the team went along with the gag because no press is bad press and the Canes wanted to be more in the spotlight but you have to be smart enough to see beyond the obvious. The Canes were chasing KK, they had negotiations that were amicable on trade offers. The Canes wanted to spend less on the trade than the cost of the offer sheet. MB didn’t bite knowing what he would get for the offer sheet. The Canes signed him. This idea that there was this angry Texas billionaire throwing checks around because he was so angry the Habs did him a favor and signed Aho for cheap is comedy.

Of course they will say it is not revenge, are you guys that naive? Of course they will posture and say they tried to trade for him even though he has never really progressed in his 3 NHL seasons before that.

 

[Jee]

We all lost that day, but now you're stuck with him and it's really funny

 

[Kevin27NYI]

but it let the Carolina Twitter account make some cute obnoxious content and thats what REALLY matters to that dork ass franchise

Facts!!!

 

[JianYang]

Don't always hit on picks.

Suzuki , Cole Caufield, Slafosky

Then they went out and got some actual centers in the NHL in newhook & Dach we will see if either van be a 2C full time.

The draft sure that sucks. The offer sheet may be the best thing that happened to them however. Forced them to pivot and go a different way with a 1st and a 3rd compensation.

This is a huge L for the Carolina Hurricanes. Atleaat they got to meme about it on Twitter

I think Suzuki and dach is what they will roll with at center for the forseeable future. When the team is healthy down the middle, I think newhook is actually going to be a winger.

I think he played C this year more because dach basically missed the entire year and dvorak missed a ton of time too.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I think the fact they gave up on Trocek and thought KK could do what he does is the biggest mistake they made

 

[GeeoffBrown]

For example, the Winnipeg Jets gave up all this for rentals and then bowed out of the playoffs in 5 games

New Jersey Devils Acquire: ​ 2026 4th round pick (WPG) Sum: $0 Change: -$1,850,000		Winnipeg Jets Acquire: ​ Colin Miller · $1,850,000 Sum: $1,850,000 Change: +$1,850,000
Mar. 8, 2024	New Jersey Devils Acquire: ​ 2024 3rd round pick (WPG - #92) 2025 2nd round pick (WPG) Sum: $0 Change: -$2,125,000		Winnipeg Jets Acquire: ​ Tyler Toffoli 79 L2 ($2,125,000 retained - 50%) · $2,125,000 Sum: $2,125,000 Change: +$2,125,000
Feb. 2, 2024	Montreal Canadiens Acquire: ​ 2024 1st round pick (WPG - #27) 2027 3rd round pick (WPG) [Conditional]* *Conditions: Montreal receives the 2027 3rd round pick if Winnipeg wins the 2024 Stanley Cup. Result: Montreal will not receive the 2027 3rd round pick. Sum: $0 Change: -$1,985,000		Winnipeg Jets Acquire: ​ Sean Monahan · $1,985,000 Sum: $1,985,000 Change: +$1,985,000

 

[CanadienShark]

I actually like the Canes a lot, but as a Habs fan, it's also pretty satisfying to watch this unfold.

 

[BLNY]

While I think that the 18g, 43pt season he had last year is not far removed from what the expectation would have been, the warts remain. Chief among them is streaky play and a completely lack of coordination. He's always been really easy to knock off balance. Hell, he can do it to himself. The prevailing thought was that once he grows into his body it would resolve, but it's still there.

If he can be a 43 point player year to year, then it's a reasonable contract. If this year, which aligns with earlier production, is what he is, it's a bad contract.

I'm really not sure why he lives rent free in so many heads. I don't give him a second thought. You leave, you're PNG'd afaic.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

The funny thing is the offer sheet to Aho actually did them a favor.

It is hard to say. His 8 year contract now takes him to 35. Who knows if he will still be a useful player then. 8 years at the time of the offer sheet would have taken him to 29 yrs old. No way to know what his next contract would have been.

 

[bossram]

The offer sheet and subsequent contract were bad decisions at the time, and I said this then, to many Canes fans jumping down my throat.

There was actually a good offer sheet target that summer and it wasn't KK. It was Robert Thomas. Said that at the time too.

 

[Hasbro]

When seeking revenge, first dig two graves.

 

[Harry22]

That was a troll because they knew it would get the social media engagement. They were trying to trade for him prior though.

Keep believing their posturing.

 

[StreetHawk]

The offer sheet and subsequent contract were bad decisions at the time, and I said this then, to many Canes fans jumping down my throat.

There was actually a good offer sheet target that summer and it wasn't KK. It was Robert Thomas. Said that at the time too.

They can still get out of KK at a minimal cost. Still owe him $30 mill so cost of $10 mill to get off him. $835K in dead money for 3 years. $455k for the 4-6 years because they took a $4.8 mill cap charge while paying him like $4 mill per year the past 2 years, then it goes back up to $8.35 mill for the final 6 years.

So, question is whether with $4 mill in cap space per in each of the next 6 years can you do better? They still have 2 more seasons with the 1/3 buyout option. He's a streaky player offensively. Will put up a great 12 game run then it's 10 with almost nothing.

As for Thomas, during his elc he was a 0.5 ppg then a 0.65 ppg, then a 0.33 ppg pace over those 3 years. So, if you dropped this deal on him at $6 mill for 1 year and having that as a QO, he'd probably have signed it. Did a 2 year bridge for $2.8 mill per with STL. Were the Blues in bad shape cap wise back in 2021?

 

[newsportsfan123]

Keep believing their posturing.

What is there to believe? I’m pretty sure Montreal reporters came out and said that Marc wanted Necas in return. Also, Lebrun reported that Carolina tried to trade for him there ain’t no posturing.

 

[bossram]

They can still get out of KK at a minimal cost. Still owe him $30 mill so cost of $10 mill to get off him. $835K in dead money for 3 years. $455k for the 4-6 years because they took a $4.8 mill cap charge while paying him like $4 mill per year the past 2 years, then it goes back up to $8.35 mill for the final 6 years.

So, question is whether with $4 mill in cap space per in each of the next 6 years can you do better? They still have 2 more seasons with the 1/3 buyout option. He's a streaky player offensively. Will put up a great 12 game run then it's 10 with almost nothing.

As for Thomas, during his elc he was a 0.5 ppg then a 0.65 ppg, then a 0.33 ppg pace over those 3 years. So, if you dropped this deal on him at $6 mill for 1 year and having that as a QO, he'd probably have signed it. Did a 2 year bridge for $2.8 mill per with STL. Were the Blues in bad shape cap wise back in 2021?

I mean, I don't think it will be too difficult for the Canes to get out of KK. But the opportunity cost of better using that cap space and picks spent during their contention window is gone. The Canes could have had a real impact player helping them and instead got a ghost. A rare, and huge L from a typically smart organization.

Thomas had all the positive underlying signs. I think the Blues had the ability to commit to him then. They just didn't believe in him.

 

[TheBeard]

It is hard to say. His 8 year contract now takes him to 35. Who knows if he will still be a useful player then. 8 years at the time of the offer sheet would have taken him to 29 yrs old. No way to know what his next contract would have been.

It seems fairly common that players even at that age are getting max contracts. I doubt it would have been anything shorter than 5 years which would have more or less been the same.

 

[bleedgreen]

Of course they will say it is not revenge, are you guys that naive? Of course they will posture and say they tried to trade for him even though he has never really progressed in his 3 NHL seasons before that.

I think you’re the one being naive that someone spent millions just got even with a mean actual hockey club that tried to pick on them. I think the level of arrogance from other fan bases but especially Montreal’s that a billionaire cares about what happened here enough to do something like this just to spite them. That any ownership in today’s age would. People of course believe the Canes ownership would, it’s a billionaire from Texas who doesn’t get hockey anyway…right? No teams ownership would do this out of spite. That includes Carolina’s.

Both sides acknowledged there was trade talks early that didn’t pan out. I think it’s your naivety that needs to read beyond that to push this narrative. Both sides played this up for the funsies of it because it makes us all talk about it. Montreal fans still thinking years later that was the actual drive behind this is amazing but in hf world I guess not that surprising! People need villains or buffoons to mock, and it’s an easy story for people to grab onto. It makes zero sense that this was actually a revenge move. Have you ever listened to Waddell speak? That guy spent millions of someone else’s money to “get revenge”? Cmon.

I’d bet cash there was zero bad blood between the organizations in either direction at either time.

 

[japhi]

It was pretty clear that Canes had not scouted KK properly when that OS was made. Waddel came out and said he thought KK would be a good fit in the top 6. I remember at the time thinking....do they not know that he can't skate?

I think they thought MB would match the OS, that they could stick him with a bad deal.

And here we are, they could have had Tro AND a 1st and 3rd to add more talent.

Team is never going to win anything meaningful until they solve their issues at C. It was ridiculous thee answer to Aho and Staal as 1/2 was adding KK and Kuz. Canes MGMT thinks they are smarter then they are, that replacement players will always be easy to find. Wrong, they have had incredible drafts and deserve credit for that but lost the plot. Hamilton and Trochek vs. KK, Kuz and Orlov. I wouldn't say their window is closed, but they really blew it putting together the final pieces on a very good core with the best coach in the league.

The Habs turning around and trading the offer sheet picks for Dvorak was also disastrous

Drafting KK in the first place is the ground zero error. At least with Dvo he's been a contributing player, and will still have value at the deadline. So 4 years of him, and a second in return, isn't THAT bad and didn't change the trajectory of the team at all.

 

[Slats432]

I would buy him out.

 

[StreetHawk]

I would buy him out.

If they need the $4 mill in cap room, they should do that. Have 4 RFAs with arbitration rights, so they should have that second window in the summer to do the buyout if they feel that is better use of the cap space.

 

[Dead Coyote]

I don’t understand why people try to dunk on Carolina with the whole KK fiasco. There was reports of Carolina trying to trade for him before they offersheeted him. This was not a troll job. At the time KK was young and I believe Carolina saw a Couturier situation where he would take longer to develop. Teams gamble on players all the time, luckily for Carolina if they want to move on from KK they can buy him out cheap on league minimum in a couple of years. Also, regarding Trocheck, Carolina was never going to sign a player going into their 30s especially with Trocheck having a massive injury issue probably two years before that. They let Dougie Hamilton walk for the same reason. I think the bigger issue is Jordan Staal, he is screwing them on the finishing side but is too good defensively to be let go.

Great post.

KK's current contract has the buyout being very low as well, and Couturier took 6 years and 1st line minutes with being leaned on heavily to finally produce. KK isn't on his level yet (if at all) even before that, He's had decent goal scoring totals the entire time, is only 23, and is fine defensively. Couturier also hasn't been a 1st line center in like 4 years and that's because he isn't being given the same opportunities he was. If KK receives 1st line minutes and PP time, I could definitely see him blowing up. Even without that, he probably at minimum develops into a good shutdown center and hopefully starts showing up in the playoffs more.