Revisiting the Andrew Copp trade

[Carbooja]

Since the recent trade is still fresh on our minds, I was looking through one of the threads and saw someone mention Andrew Copp. Quick google and I came across this article : Revisiting the Winnipeg Jets Andrew Copp trade just over 2 years later

I wasn't aware how much of a bounty we ended up getting for Copp:

Out:
Andrew Copp

In:
Morgan Barron
2022 1st round pick (which became Brad Lambert)
2022 2nd round pick (which became Elias Salomonsson)
2023 5th round pick (which became Thomas Milic)

We already have a pretty servicible player in Barron, and Big Bad Brad might turn out to be a steal, but add Salomonsson and maybe Milic?

Curious on your thoughts.

Click to read more...

 

[KingBogo]

Since the recent trade is still fresh on our minds, I was looking through one of the threads and saw someone mention Andrew Copp. Quick google and I came across this article : Revisiting the Winnipeg Jets Andrew Copp trade just over 2 years later

I wasn't aware how much of a bounty we ended up getting for Copp:

Out:
Andrew Copp

In:
Morgan Barron
2022 1st round pick (which became Brad Lambert)
2022 2nd round pick (which became Elias Salomonsson)
2023 5th round pick (which became Thomas Milic)

We already have a pretty servicible player in Barron, and Big Bad Brad might turn out to be a steal, but add Salomonsson and maybe Milic?

Curious on your thoughts.

It has the potential to be Chevy's all time best trade. We are still waiting on how the prospects pan out but if Lambert becomes a #2 center and Salo a top 4 RHD Chevy hit a homerun, not counting that Barron is already a very serviceable bottom 6 winger. If Milic hits as a solid backup you can add to that.

 

[Jets4Life]

Chevy is the best GM in the league.

 

[Whileee]

It has the potential to be Chevy's all time best trade. We are still waiting on how the prospects pan out but if Lambert becomes a #2 center and Salo a top 4 RHD Chevy hit a homerun, not counting that Barron is already a very serviceable bottom 6 winger. If Milic hits as a solid backup you can add to that.

Chevy absolutely smashed the trade market the last couple of years. If he had resisted the Monahan for a 1st, it would have been even better...

In 4 trades over the past couple of years Chevy did this...

Out: Copp, PLD, 2nd, 4th

In: Vilardi, Nino, Iafallo, Barron, Namestnikov, Lambert, Salomonsson, Milic.

...and we still see lots of social media commentary saying that Chevy doesn't do anything on the trade front.

 

[Duke749]

And people say we should fire Chevy. I just can’t get behind firing someone that will continue to find a way for our org.

 

[Jetabre]

Loved the trade then, loved it even more when the condition for the 1st round pick were realized and am still loving it. Great value.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

And people say we should fire Chevy. I just can’t get behind firing someone that will continue to find a way for our org.

I keep saying he's the best general manager in the league for a reason. One thing that impresses me are the contracts he gets for Hellebuyck and Scheifele long-term without destroying the cap.

But as for this trade, I think Milic will turn into a solid 1B Goaltender as he has a similar career path to Kuemper/Dubnyk and I think he'll have some solid years between the pipes in the NHL whether it's Winnipeg or not.

Lambert I think will be a solid 2C for us many years to come.

Barron is a solid hockey player, worst-case-scenario we trade him but on the plus side we get good value out of that. If we had to trade Barron I see us getting a 1st/2nd and a solid prospect.

Salomonsson is still young, but from what I'm hearing he's likely going to play a solid top-four role.

 

[JetsFan815]

I remember there were some posters here advocating that the Jets hang on to him as an "own rental" saying a chance at the playoffs was more important than whatever low impact prospects we get in the return.

Exactly why the Jets should almost never let guys walk to UFA or trade high picks for pending UFA rentals, many of those trades won't amount to anything but you need darts on the boards to get a hit like this one.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Chevy absolutely smashed the trade market the last couple of years. If he had resisted the Monahan for a 1st, it would have been even better...

In 4 trades over the past couple of years Chevy did this...

Out: Copp, PLD, 2nd, 4th

In: Vilardi, Nino, Iafallo, Barron, Namestnikov, Lambert, Salomonsson, Milic.

...and we still see lots of social media commentary saying that Chevy doesn't do anything on the trade front.

In fairness, I don't think anyone says that he does nothing on the trade front. Rather it is that he does nothing unless a player forces his hand by demanding a trade or refusing to sign.

But yes, he has been killing it in the trade market.

 

[Whileee]

In fairness, I don't think anyone says that he does nothing on the trade front. Rather it is that he does nothing unless a player forces his hand by demanding a trade or refusing to sign.

But yes, he has been killing it in the trade market.

Copp was prepared to sign with the Jets but Chevy didn't like the contract expectations in his cap situation.

Nino and Namestnikov were TDL acquisitions.

So none of those were examples of "forced trades" per se.

I disagree about how Chevy is perceived by many on social media and I think it's pretty lame at this point. It's a meme that comes up at every TDL.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Copp was prepared to sign with the Jets but Chevy didn't like the contract expectations in his cap situation.

Nino and Namestnikov were TDL acquisitions.

So none of those were examples of "forced trades" per se.

I disagree about how Chevy is perceived by many on social media and I think it's pretty lame at this point. It's a meme that comes up at every TDL.

Well, won't sign for what was offered is pretty close to won't sign. I don't remember exactly how that played out. Might it be similar to the Frolik case? Frolik was ready to sign (according to rumour) earlier, but Chevy didn't make him an offer. By the time Chevy got around to it, Froliks wife (GF?) had decided she wanted him to leave. Timing counts. Kind of the same this year with Dillon.

I agree that Chevy gets more criticism than he deserves, but he is not perfect. Who is? I certainly don't want to get rid of him. The odds are that we would get a worse GM, IMO.

I think he is among the better GMs in the league. His conservative, patient approach fits Wpg's needs, most of the time.

 

[Whileee]

Well, won't sign for what was offered is pretty close to won't sign. I don't remember exactly how that played out. Might it be similar to the Frolik case? Frolik was ready to sign (according to rumour) earlier, but Chevy didn't make him an offer. By the time Chevy got around to it, Froliks wife (GF?) had decided she wanted him to leave. Timing counts. Kind of the same this year with Dillon.

I agree that Chevy gets more criticism than he deserves, but he is not perfect. Who is? I certainly don't want to get rid of him. The odds are that we would get a worse GM, IMO.

I think he is among the better GMs in the league. His conservative, patient approach fits Wpg's needs, most of the time.

Well, then you could say that any time a pending UFA is traded it was "forced", but I think the decision to trade Copp was similar to the Ladd trade. It was a decision by the Jets to trade a pending UFA.

I doubt anyone says Chevy is perfect. I agree that he's generally been a good GM overall, all things considered.

 

[DRW204]

a lot of tbd on the Jets side of the trade as expected given it's futures heavy. barron is a good 4th liner, kind of average 3rd liner. to me he's pretty replaceable for most teams

Rangers really didn't give anything up that hurt has them yet. since the trade .672 pts % (3rd since the '22 TDL) 2xECF appearance & 23 PO wins altogether (5th most since the '22 TDL). Jets have .617 pts% and 2 PO wins in comparison.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Well, then you could say that any time a pending UFA is traded it was "forced", but I think the decision to trade Copp was similar to the Ladd trade. It was a decision by the Jets to trade a pending UFA.

I doubt anyone says Chevy is perfect. I agree that he's generally been a good GM overall, all things considered.

I agree, Copp does not belong in that 'forced' category. More like mutual agreement.

The potential return on that trade is incredible - if it pans out. Certainly looking promising right now.

 

[Whileee]

I actually think Barron is an underappreciated player and could be a big part of that trade return. Last season he started to really learn how to use his size and speed to create offense. I think he could become an effective middle 6 winger that is a good possession player and adds some offense.

 

[Weezeric]

I actually think Barron is an underappreciated player and could be a big part of that trade return. Last season he started to really learn how to use his size and speed to create offense. I think he could become an effective middle 6 winger that is a good possession player and adds some offense.

I agree. I think moving Barron up with Lowry and Appleton frees up Nino to play with a younger player. Arniel would have to want more balanced lines though.

 

[voyageur]

I agree. I think moving Barron up with Lowry and Appleton frees up Nino to play with a younger player. Arniel would have to want more balanced lines though.

I am not sure we see that as much this year, as I would describe Nino and Iafallo as the two slowest Jets forwards on the roster and I don't think they end up together, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Appleton re-signs, as he is valued a lot by the Jets, and he was the guy who was acquired once Copp was traded. Then you may see the line you mentioned next year, as I do feel like Barron is still making strides, and maybe Nino with Gus and Chibrikov, like game 82. That seems like a good fit.
But I think Lambert still has to develop into a PK centre for that to work, as you usually have 6 PKers on your forward roster for depth, Connor is potentially one of them, but Scheif, Vilardi, Perfetti, Nino and Chibrikov are not, and Ehlers never has been, and may be in his final season.

 

[WolfHouse]

Legit think we are missing an opportunity to develop Barron as a center that replaces Lowry... really like his game

 

[WolfHouse]

I think you have to include the cost of Copp leaving - ie he could have stepped in as our 2C as an equivalent to monahan or names... so that's an extra first and a fourth maintained by the Jets

Or nino plays in our top six if copp is stapled to third line with Lowry... but the copp-connor PK team might still be a thing...

I like names but copp as our defacto 3rd line center would have worked well - think Chevy letting copp walk was more a result of the Schmidt and pionk panic deals - we have never quite replaced his PK and play driving

 

[Jets 31]

Considering how many players have Winnipeg on their no trade list Chevy basically has one arm tied behind his back compared to most GM's . Is Chevy perfect? no but i am very happy with the job he has done so far.

 

[10Ducky10]

Copp is over paid and his deal is too long.
He is the 3rd highest paid on their roster.
I'm more than glad with what Chevy got in return in that deal.
Copp for 2 forwards, 1 D man and a goalie.
Two have a really good chance of making the bigs and if Lambert keeps up his development arc, he'll be a better player than Copp.
I had no problem with moving on from Copp.

 

[ghyrti]

Saw Chevy walking down Graham with a coffee one morning this week and went looking back at his NHL trade history. Looks like his first trades were on draft day 2011. One was trading picks used on Olivier Archambault (107) and Josiah Didier (96) to Montreal for the pick used on Brennan Serville (77). Interesting note that Johnny Gaudreau went between the two Montreal picks at 104.

The second trade is still going (for one team, sort of) in that it was trading picks used on Sean Kuraly (132) and Colin Blackwell (193) to San Jose for the pick used on Zach Yuen (118). Interesting note here is that before Kuraly finished his NCAA career and signed his rookie deal he was flipped (along with a draft pick used on Trent Frederic a year later) to Boston for Martin Jones. Jones played almost 400 games for San Jose. Kuraly played over 300 for Boston (87 total points) before leaving and Frederic is still playing for Boston (~300GP/100pts so far). The pick used on Blackwell was Calgary's that they had traded to Atlanta for Fredrik Modin.

 

[Jet]

Legit think we are missing an opportunity to develop Barron as a center that replaces Lowry... really like his game

If I was a bottom 6 winger, especially a guy who played a lot of centre pre NHL, I'd be working on faceoffs and skating as my main priorities every off season. A guy like Barron with size and some skill could really boost his value if he could transition back to centre.

 

[ghyrti]

Saw Chevy walking down Graham with a coffee one morning this week and went looking back at his NHL trade history. Looks like his first trades were on draft day 2011. One was trading picks used on Olivier Archambault (107) and Josiah Didier (96) to Montreal for the pick used on Brennan Serville (77). Interesting note that Johnny Gaudreau went between the two Montreal picks at 104.

The second trade is still going (for one team, sort of) in that it was trading picks used on Sean Kuraly (132) and Colin Blackwell (193) to San Jose for the pick used on Zach Yuen (118). Interesting note here is that before Kuraly finished his NCAA career and signed his rookie deal he was flipped (along with a draft pick used on Trent Frederic a year later) to Boston for Martin Jones. Jones played almost 400 games for San Jose. Kuraly played over 300 for Boston (87 total points) before leaving and Frederic is still playing for Boston (~300GP/100pts so far). The pick used on Blackwell was Calgary's that they had traded to Atlanta for Fredrik Modin.

Forgot to add that the Jets ended up with multiple first rounders that year.

Mark Scheifele (7)
Joel Armia (16)
Nathan Beaulieu (17)
Joe Morrow (23)
Vlad Namestnikov (27)

 

[StumpyTown]

Well, won't sign for what was offered is pretty close to won't sign. I don't remember exactly how that played out. Might it be similar to the Frolik case? Frolik was ready to sign (according to rumour) earlier, but Chevy didn't make him an offer. By the time Chevy got around to it, Froliks wife (GF?) had decided she wanted him to leave. Timing counts. Kind of the same this year with Dillon.

I agree that Chevy gets more criticism than he deserves, but he is not perfect. Who is? I certainly don't want to get rid of him. The odds are that we would get a worse GM, IMO.

I think he is among the better GMs in the league. His conservative, patient approach fits Wpg's needs, most of the time.

I see all of these a bit differently:
Copp was an up and comer and ready for a huge pay raise that I don't think Chevy was willing to match. In this case I think that Chevy dropped the ball a bit.
Frolik and Dillon both were right at the edge of the cliff performance wise. I saw cracks in Dillon throughout the back half of last season that I think will be more extreme this season. As much As I'll miss Dillon's physical game on this group of D, I think it was simply the right time to move on from him. Frolik simply fell apart in Calgary and was out of the league within a couple years so it appears that letting him go was also a good idea (hindsight being 20/20)
I agree 100% with your last statement about Chevy's conservative nature being the correct approach for the Winnipeg team.