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replacing Derek Dorsett in lineup and roster

  • Thread starter Thread starter Punxrocknyc19*
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Raspewtin said:
Wow, you've really mastered the art of the strawman argument.
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blah blah blah

facts are facts

maybe you guys should argue more Corsi and write 239481273 word posts to somehow try to convince me that what I'm seeing isn't really happening.

Point is Dorsett is about as valuable as a steaming pile of dung. At least Asham could score the occasional goal.

The team is better, and feistier with Carcillo in the lineup.
 
KreiMeARiver said:
blah blah blah

facts are facts

maybe you guys should argue more Corsi and write 239481273 word posts to somehow try to convince me that what I'm seeing isn't really happening.

Point is Dorsett is about as valuable as a steaming pile of dung. At least Asham could score the occasional goal.

The team is better, and feistier with Carcillo in the lineup.
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Carcillo has two goals lol.

Facts are facts that Carcillo has no bearing on this team's turn around.
 
If you're asking who the best player on that list is, I pick JT Miller, but, if you're asking who is most suited to fulfill DD's role, then Carcillo is my pick.
 
Raspewtin said:
When you can bring me proof/evidence that Dorsett going down and Carcillo coming into the lineup are why this team turned it around, or it had anything to do with it, I'll believe it
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Something that no-one has, will or can do.

Attributing any of the team's sudden successes to Carcillo coming in has to be one of the more ridiculous theories I've heard in awhile.
 
aufheben said:
Carcillo has been better than Dorsett in that role. I would trade Dorsett for a draft pick over the summer.
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I don;t know why its so hard for people to understand it. Dorsett might be the better guy on paper, but on the ice, Carcillo is working the 4th line better than Dorsett ever has...

again, I am a HUGE Dorsett supporter, I love what he brings. Unfortunately, Carcillo does it better for this team. I did NOT say that Carcillo was the better player.
 
KreiMeARiver said:
blah blah blah

facts are facts
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But... those aren't facts. what you've listed aren't even statistics. it's the team's record with either of the 2 least significant players on the team, suggesting that one causes us to win games, and the other to lose them.
 
Ail said:
Something that no-one has, will or can do.

Attributing any of the team's sudden successes to Carcillo coming in has to be one of the more ridiculous theories I've heard in awhile.
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So by that logic, are you going to deny Avery had anything to do with the turnaround in 2007?
 
KreiMeARiver said:
So by that logic, are you going to deny Avery had anything to do with the turnaround in 2007?
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I don't know because I was not able to watch most of that season. What I do know is that Avery was 10x the player Carcillo is and was a legitimate spark plug a lot of nights. Carcillo has not been that at all for the Rangers and has done little to earn the exalt he is being awarded.
 
Ail said:
I don't know because I was not able to watch most of that season. What I do know is that Avery was 10x the player Carcillo is and was a legitimate spark plug a lot of nights. Carcillo has not been that at all for the Rangers and has done little to earn the exalt he is being awarded.
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It's not so much what Carcillo has done, it's about what he hasn't done.

- "Everyone" expected him to take a bunch of stupid penalties, costing the team points
- "Everyone" expected him to be unable to do anything at all in the offensive zone and to be bad enough to hurt the team.
- "Everyone" expected him to embarrass the team just by being himself.

"Everyone" was wrong. He has been very disciplined for the most part, he has been solid on the forecheck and been a stronger skater than "everyone" expected .He has kept his cool and not really done a lot to either hurt or help the team.

I don't care about the team's record with or without him. I do care how the fourth line has looked with him in vs Dorsett. I wouldn't say the difference is huge, but IMO they have looked better with Carcillo in rather than Dorsett. They have forechecked better, created more chances and sustained more pressure in the offensive zone. And taken fewer penalties.

I was expecting Dorsett to be to the fourth line what Prust was to Feds and Boyle. Maybe I was asking to much. I do feel he had a period where he played very well for his role. He stopped taking stupid penalties and started playing with intensity and snarl, but smarter. He even did good things offensively. It just didn't last for a very long time.

Do I think he has been the problem in the games the Rangers have lost? Absolutely not. Does he help the team enough that he should stay next year? Absolutely not. Is he a better hockey player than Carcillo? I most certainly think he is, but I don't think he plays better than him on the Boyle line.
 
Dorsett is completely useless. A 4th line PKer/energy guy that isn't anything special on the PK, can't really fight, and is undersized. Color me surprised :shakehead

Carcillo plays the same role but can actually make some plays with the puck. Dorsett serves 0 purpose on this team
 
DelZottoHitTheNetJK said:
Dorsett is completely useless. A 4th line PKer/energy guy that isn't anything special on the PK, can't really fight, and is undersized. Color me surprised :shakehead

Carcillo plays the same role but can actually make some plays with the puck. Dorsett serves 0 purpose on this team
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Carcillo is one of the worst Corsi players on the team iirc.

Yeah great playmaking, his one assist is the difference between him and Dorsett :shakehead.

Do people even remember that the 4th line has been good largely all year, with Dorsett?
 
I blame Avery for the Carcillo/Dorsett debate. This shouldn't be that complicated. They both suck. Play Carcillo until he stops being effective, then play Dorsett. Play Dorsett until he stops being effective, then play Carcillo. No need to waive anyone. Healthy bodies are healthy bodies. Unless you want a situation like Stu Bickel or Jason Strudwick playing the fourth line again.
 
Raspewtin said:
Carcillo is one of the worst Corsi players on the team iirc.

Yeah great playmaking, his one assist is the difference between him and Dorsett :shakehead.

Do people even remember that the 4th line has been good largely all year, with Dorsett?
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You're one of those advanced stat guys I see. I watch the games, and base my opinion off what I see. Kind of like, you know, professional NHL scouts do. Carcillo makes good outlet passes and seam passes to move the puck up the ice. He fits our style better. Dorsett ***** his pants when a defender comes within 10 feet of him and dumps it in. It's possible to make plays in a hockey game without them showing up on your Corsi chart
 
DelZottoHitTheNetJK said:
You're one of those advanced stat guys I see. I watch the games, and base my opinion off what I see. Kind of like, you know, professional NHL scouts do. Carcillo makes good outlet passes and seam passes to move the puck up the ice. He fits our style better. Dorsett ***** his pants when a defender comes within 10 feet of him and dumps it in. It's possible to make plays in a hockey game without them showing up on your Corsi chart
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Yeah god forbid people use logic that debunks stupid baseless arguments.

I watch games too and Derek Dorsett makes this team better than Carcillo.
 
Dorsett is a better player than Carcillo and should be in over him in the lineup.

Going forward it may be a different story however, Dorsett has a very expensive contract and I think Carcillo can be re-signed for less.

I'd trade Dorsett in the offseason.
 
DelZottoHitTheNetJK said:
You're one of those advanced stat guys I see. I watch the games, and base my opinion off what I see. Kind of like, you know, professional NHL scouts do. Carcillo makes good outlet passes and seam passes to move the puck up the ice. He fits our style better. Dorsett ***** his pants when a defender comes within 10 feet of him and dumps it in. It's possible to make plays in a hockey game without them showing up on your Corsi chart
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You're one of those people who doesn't understand advanced stats, or is too lazy to try, so they write them off as witchcraft.

Teams use advanced stats, as well as their eyes. Advanced stats aren't going anywhere so get used to it.
 
DelZottoHitTheNetJK said:
You're one of those advanced stat guys I see. I watch the games, and base my opinion off what I see. Kind of like, you know, professional NHL scouts do. Carcillo makes good outlet passes and seam passes to move the puck up the ice. He fits our style better. Dorsett ***** his pants when a defender comes within 10 feet of him and dumps it in. It's possible to make plays in a hockey game without them showing up on your Corsi chart
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Can you explain why Carcillo's outlet passes and Dorsett's pants ****ting wouldn't led to more or less shots attempts for the team when they are on the ice?

Also: http://www.fearthefin.com/2013/7/31...r-players-brian-gross-mirco-mueller-analytics
 
No advanced stat is going to measure the intangibles that are expected to come with this role.

There is no Nof30 with this "argument"... its a matter of appreciable difference in effectiveness for a 4th liner on this hockey team.

The au naturale contrarians on this board just need something to argue about. There are posters on this board whose posts I simply skip past because I don't value their opinions or perspectives, plus not enough time really.

Listen to what the commentators say at the end of these clips with regard to one Brandon Prust in games where his team didn't come out with full effort... "He gets his job" "He understands his job"... Some guys get it... some guys don't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsUk9xnqk-U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLM6ycYg1L0
 
Mikos87 said:
No advanced stat is going to measure the intangibles that are expected to come with this role.

There is no Nof30 with this "argument"... its a matter of appreciable difference in effectiveness for a 4th liner on this hockey team.

The au naturale contrarians on this board just need something to argue about. There are posters on this board whose posts I simply skip past because I don't value their opinions or perspectives, plus not enough time really.

Listen to what the commentators say at the end of these clips with regard to one Brandon Prust in games where his team didn't come out with full effort... "He gets his job" "He understands his job"... Some guys get it... some guys don't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsUk9xnqk-U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLM6ycYg1L0
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Yeah I often skip over posts that might refute my opinions that are based off confirmation bias and a tingly feeling I get in my stomach. I don't want to read that stuff.
 
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