replacing Derek Dorsett in lineup and roster

[pld459666]

Carcillo really isn't even as good as Dorsett in any aspect.

yet Carcillo is a more effective player.

Interesting

 

[Leonardo87]

You guys really think their losses are due to Dorsett? They have a lot of issues to deal with, and it starts with the D. Dorsett played well last night, he is not an issue.

 

[Ail]

yet Carcillo is a more effective player.

Interesting

According to what, the eye test?

 

[pld459666]

According to what, the eye test?

with Carcillo the line doesn't seem so one dimensional in the sense that they generate more chances for themselves as opposed to when Dorsett is out there.

Additionally, Carcillo displays a lot more of that FU attitude.

He has also shown to be much better at drawing penalties than Dorsett

I actually like Dorsett, but I just don't thgink that he's suited for AV's style/

 

[Ail]

with Carcillo the line doesn't seem so one dimensional in the sense that they generate more chances for themselves as opposed to when Dorsett is out there.

Additionally, Carcillo displays a lot more of that FU attitude.

He has also shown to be much better at drawing penalties than Dorsett

I actually like Dorsett, but I just don't thgink that he's suited for AV's style/

Carcillo has taken 10, and drawn 11. +1

Dorsett has taken 27, and drawn 24. -3

Edit: In the name of fairness, I did not realize those numbers included fights. Dorsett has 9 and Carcillo has one. (with NYR)

So in actuality Carcillo is drawing at .47 PPG rate, while Dorsett is at .37 PPG. So, while I would still hardly say he is "much better" he is better by about a tenth, or 1 penalty in 10 games.

 

[Lion Hound]

I am a big fan of having a scrapper on the roster. Team is incredibly soft in the aspect.

With that said, I'm not the biggest Dorsett fan. Doesn't really seem to add to much. Carcillo seems the better fit, even though I though Dorsett would be the better player, team just seems more complete with him on the outside.

 

[Ail]

Carcillo has taken 10, and drawn 11. +1

Dorsett has taken 27, and drawn 24. -3

Edit: In the name of fairness, I did not realize those numbers included fights. Dorsett has 9 and Carcillo has one. (with NYR)

So in actuality Carcillo is drawing at .47 PPG rate, while Dorsett is at .37 PPG. So, while I would still hardly say he is "much better" he is better by about a tenth, or 1 penalty in 10 games.

I'll go one farther however and take Carcillo's full seasons stats vs. Dorsett's.

Carcillo: 47GP, 27 taken, 26 drawn, -1. He has 6 fights total. (Subtract from the taken/drawn totals.)

.42 PPG drawn.

Dorsett: 40GP, 27 taken, 24 drawn, -3. He has 9 fights total. (Subtract from the taken/drawn totals.)

.37 PPG drawn.

That reduces the difference to .05, or 1 penalty every 20 games.

 

[Mikos87]

yet Carcillo is a more effective player.

Interesting

Carcillo understands his job better. It's small plays, but Carcillo is a guy that has a few deep playoff runs under his belt, and just simply is a better player in that role.

I have nothing but respect for the type of game Dorsett plays, but with all do respect, he is the sort of player you lose with in that role. Just like how Brad Boyes only plays on bad teams, or Sam Gagner contributes to loss after loss in a 2nd line role, some players are just that. Losers.

For the type of game that he plays, he doesn't win board battles, nor does he win fights.

He also only fights when he's picked on or feels the need because of himself, and not when his team needs it. The Carcillo trade happened because Rick Nash, fresh of a concussion, went after Ovechkin in an early December game. No one on the Rangers followed suit.

What's the point of dropping the gloves if your going to take a beating?

Brandon Prust is actually good at what he does. Just cause a guy plays that way, doesn't make him effective in that role, you have to be good in that role.

The Rangers are below .500 with Dorsett in the lineup. In a game that badly needed energy against Carolina on Tuesday, did Dorsett do anything to step up? No.

If that was Prust, he would've waken his guys up early in the 1st period by trying to change momentum any way he could. Some guys get their job better than others.

In the Philly game when the Rangers were getting pushed around, Carcillo started a side show to throw the Flyers of their game, and the Rangers picked up momentum as a result.

I've seen enough where I think Dorsett should be sat out for the rest of the season barring injuries. Both Carcillo and Miller bring much more to the table than he does, and do so for a smaller cap hit.

I am a MOAR TUFFness proponent, but Dorsett just doesn't add enough. There isn't enough time left in the season where AV can give him some TLC like he did with Pouliot to get Dorsett going. He needed to step up in the Carolina game in a bad way, to try and gain some momentum yet he just coasted along with the rest of the guys.

 

[Mikos87]

I am a big fan of having a scrapper on the roster. Team is incredibly soft in the aspect.

With that said, I'm not the biggest Dorsett fan. Doesn't really seem to add to much. Carcillo seems the better fit, even though I though Dorsett would be the better player, team just seems more complete with him on the outside.

Carcillo is smarter too. That trick he pulled breaking his stick after an icing bought his guys some minutes, and saved a time out. That timeout was used by AV later in the game when Cally was gassed.

That was a savvy play, and the guy that has the lowest salary on the team sacrificed a stick that costs a couple hundred dollars to help his team win.

 

[D713B]

Things can't be that bad if we're this concerned about the 12th forward, right? (Little glass is half full perspective, I guess...)

 

[TheTakedown]

Carcillo understands his job better. It's small plays, but Carcillo is a guy that has a few deep playoff runs under his belt, and just simply is a better player in that role.

I have nothing but respect for the type of game Dorsett plays, but with all do respect, he is the sort of player you lose with in that role. Just like how Brad Boyes only plays on bad teams, or Sam Gagner contributes to loss after loss in a 2nd line role, some players are just that. Losers.

For the type of game that he plays, he doesn't win board battles, nor does he win fights.

He also only fights when he's picked on or feels the need because of himself, and not when his team needs it. The Carcillo trade happened because Rick Nash, fresh of a concussion, went after Ovechkin in an early December game. No one on the Rangers followed suit.

What's the point of dropping the gloves if your going to take a beating?

Brandon Prust is actually good at what he does. Just cause a guy plays that way, doesn't make him effective in that role, you have to be good in that role.

The Rangers are below .500 with Dorsett in the lineup. In a game that badly needed energy against Carolina on Tuesday, did Dorsett do anything to step up? No.

If that was Prust, he would've waken his guys up early in the 1st period by trying to change momentum any way he could. Some guys get their job better than others.

In the Philly game when the Rangers were getting pushed around, Carcillo started a side show to throw the Flyers of their game, and the Rangers picked up momentum as a result.

I've seen enough where I think Dorsett should be sat out for the rest of the season barring injuries. Both Carcillo and Miller bring much more to the table than he does, and do so for a smaller cap hit.

I am a MOAR TUFFness proponent, but Dorsett just doesn't add enough. There isn't enough time left in the season where AV can give him some TLC like he did with Pouliot to get Dorsett going. He needed to step up in the Carolina game in a bad way, to try and gain some momentum yet he just coasted along with the rest of the guys.

Carcillo is smarter too. That trick he pulled breaking his stick after an icing bought his guys some minutes, and saved a time out. That timeout was used by AV later in the game when Cally was gassed.

That was a savvy play, and the guy that has the lowest salary on the team sacrificed a stick that costs a couple hundred dollars to help his team win.

Thank you for such insightful posts. Wish more people used logic like this

I like Carcillo for what he is, a smart 4th liner, drops the gloves when he needs to, plays good hockey, has lots of Chemistry with BOyle and Moore.

It looks more and more every day like Dorsett is slowly being run out of town. such a shame, I had such high hopes for the guy

 

[Ail]

It looks more and more every day like Dorsett is slowly being run out of town. such a shame, I had such high hopes for the guy

He's being run out of town so hard that he wasn't moved at the deadline and AV continues to insert him in to the line-up.

Posters on HFBoards sure are trying to run him out of town.

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

I think they are similar in the way they play but carcillo has such great chemistry with Boyle and Moore and he makes that fourth line a third line

 

[Ail]

Things can't be that bad if we're this concerned about the 12th forward, right? (Little glass is half full perspective, I guess...)

The way I am seeing it is, in a game where almost the entire team was egregiously bad, people are taking a crap on the one guy who played a decent game.

This board is reaching new levels of absurdity on a daily basis.

 

[NikC]

Regardless of his low priority, he's not the right tool for the job. Why are the rangers looking at oddities to fill roles? We cant even draft effective 4th line players?

Columbus fans loved him? That's not much of a scouting report.

 

[Raspewtin]

Dorsett played well before getting hurt. Funny how everyone forgot that already.

He's a better player than Carcillo.

So yeah, where's the Dorsett option?

 

[Leonardo87]

The way I am seeing it is, in a game where almost the entire team was egregiously bad, people are taking a crap on the one guy who played a decent game.

This board is reaching new levels of absurdity on a daily basis.

Totally agree with you, to everything you said. Dorsett was not the problem last game, far from it.

 

[pld459666]

I think they are similar in the way they play but carcillo has such great chemistry with Boyle and Moore and he makes that fourth line a third line

that's a pretty big stretch.

I think the line looks more competent and capable offensively with Carcillo than Dorsett, but neither guy is goign to make that 4th line look like a third line.

They are a 4th line that looks and plays like a 4th line.

Fortunately for us, it's a 4th line that actually generates opportunities as opposed to a 4th line under Torts that couldn't generate a smooth break out.

and that's not all on the players which I think it being displayed here in this thread.

Some players thrive in certain styles. I'm not convinced that the offensive production we are getting from McD would be so pronounced in a Torts type of system.

And with DD, I think the system that AV employs may not suit him well. That's no indictment on DD. He's still a solid player and can be an effective player. I just think that with how we play and what is expected from the 4th line Dan C is a better fit.

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

Carcillo understands his job better. It's small plays, but Carcillo is a guy that has a few deep playoff runs under his belt, and just simply is a better player in that role.

I have nothing but respect for the type of game Dorsett plays, but with all do respect, he is the sort of player you lose with in that role. Just like how Brad Boyes only plays on bad teams, or Sam Gagner contributes to loss after loss in a 2nd line role, some players are just that. Losers.

For the type of game that he plays, he doesn't win board battles, nor does he win fights.

He also only fights when he's picked on or feels the need because of himself, and not when his team needs it. The Carcillo trade happened because Rick Nash, fresh of a concussion, went after Ovechkin in an early December game. No one on the Rangers followed suit.

What's the point of dropping the gloves if your going to take a beating?

Brandon Prust is actually good at what he does. Just cause a guy plays that way, doesn't make him effective in that role, you have to be good in that role.

The Rangers are below .500 with Dorsett in the lineup. In a game that badly needed energy against Carolina on Tuesday, did Dorsett do anything to step up? No.

If that was Prust, he would've waken his guys up early in the 1st period by trying to change momentum any way he could. Some guys get their job better than others.

In the Philly game when the Rangers were getting pushed around, Carcillo started a side show to throw the Flyers of their game, and the Rangers picked up momentum as a result.

I've seen enough where I think Dorsett should be sat out for the rest of the season barring injuries. Both Carcillo and Miller bring much more to the table than he does, and do so for a smaller cap hit.

I am a MOAR TUFFness proponent, but Dorsett just doesn't add enough. There isn't enough time left in the season where AV can give him some TLC like he did with Pouliot to get Dorsett going. He needed to step up in the Carolina game in a bad way, to try and gain some momentum yet he just coasted along with the rest of the guys.

ask Brian Boyle, he always does this.... has he even won a fight???

even Sam Rosen mentions he cant fight

 

[KreiMeARiver*]

The way I am seeing it is, in a game where almost the entire team was egregiously bad, people are taking a crap on the one guy who played a decent game.

This board is reaching new levels of absurdity on a daily basis.

Dorsett in the lineup=we lose

Carcillo on the lineup=we win

It's that simple. DeLury and I were discussing this the other night. Why make lineup changes when we're winning? Why?

 

[Larrybiv]

ask Brian Boyle, he always does this.... has he even won a fight???

even Sam Rosen mentions he cant fight

Looked like he was stronger than the refs though! Gotta love Boyle, doesn't want to hurt the team (nor opposing players, haha) in any way. Waits till AFTER the game to fight, so he doesn't lose any ice time. Smart, very smart.

 

[KreiMeARiver*]

Dorsett in the lineup=we lose

Carcillo on the lineup=we win

It's that simple. DeLury and I were discussing this the other night. Why make lineup changes when we're winning? Why?

When did this team STOP looking pathetic? When Dorsett went down..

When did this team START looking really good? When Carcillo came in

but yeah we're all idiots and you're a genius. enough

 

[Callagraves]

Dorsett in the lineup=we lose

Carcillo on the lineup=we win

It's that simple. DeLury and I were discussing this the other night. Why make lineup changes when we're winning? Why?

I thought the board was over this Avery-effect type nonsense.

Correlation does not equal causation.

 

[aufheben]

Carcillo has been better than Dorsett in that role. I would trade Dorsett for a draft pick over the summer.

 

[Raspewtin]

Dorsett in the lineup=we lose

Carcillo on the lineup=we win

It's that simple. DeLury and I were discussing this the other night. Why make lineup changes when we're winning? Why?

Wow, you've really mastered the art of the strawman argument.