Remembering When II - We Had a Players Coach & Team Toughness

[Canadian Finn]

well then how about a team coached by Quinn that had Domi, Tucker, Green, Corson, Belak, McCabe, Roberts, Nolan etc etc....and actually managed to do something in the playoffs.

but you see, harry potter wants to convince us we are in a "new NHL".

he has successfully convinced some of his lesser experienced fanbase, like he did with the "new pay for UFA's", but like we saw, it is only in his head.

we have an overpaid charmin soft team.....and we're waiting for the "new NHL" to catch up....which isn't going to happen. At least it'll provide some learning for those who think "speed and skill" will win a championship.

 

[hector morrison]

Certain styles don't really work anymore and people wanting the Leafs to be the big bad Leafs of old, need to get over it. The NHL has changed and is continually changing away from that style and you don't want to be someone like the Kings who are having trouble adapting. Say what you will about how "soft" the Leafs are, but this past May they were in much better shape and played better in that series in comparison to the previous 2, even if the outcome ended up being the same. My point is that in this NHL, if you're skilled enough, you can play around "toughness" and "grittiness" because if you move the puck fast enough, the opposing team isn't going to hem you in your zone. This romanticizing of the past, and how "tough" players and teams used to be is rather silly to me. Most teams don't play that heavy and slow anymore because of how fast the game has gotten, keep up or lose

It seems 'silly' to you. Perhaps you haven't experienced it first hand then. You seem to be equating tough with slow....they don't necessarily come as a package deal you know. Speed is good,but not by itself. Give me power forwards,thanks. I don't need them to be the fastest players in the league.

The series last season was no better than the previous ones...opinions will vary. I won't even use any of the series they lost as a gauge of ability. I see it as a reflection of the coach mostly,as well as a few players who aren't mentally tough. But that's a different topic.

 

[Menzinger]

Amazing to me that people miss the connection between heart and special teams performance.

In the playoffs, lanes get crowded. You have to be willing to fight to get to scoring areas.

If you don’t have that will, you play the perimeter. And odds go down.

On the P.K., if you have shot blockers and those willing to clear the lanes, your goals against go down.

A gritty team contributes to success in those areas. A soft team does not.

Sheesh.

I think youd be very hard pressed to argue how Pasta's snipes on the PP last playoff series were in anyway tied to "grit"

 

[Pookie]

I think youd be very hard pressed to argue how Pasta's snipes on the PP last playoff series were in anyway tied to "grit"

Nothing happens in a vacuum.

How hard did he train? How did they get on the PP? How did they kill our PPs? Etc etc.

 

[IPS]

I think youd be very hard pressed to argue how Pasta's snipes on the PP last playoff series were in anyway tied to "grit"

Almost shocking that we outplayed Boston 5 on 5 despite having this pathetic group of heartless weaklings. This grit conversation was almost non-existent during the series too.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Almost shocking that we outplayed Boston 5 on 5 despite having this pathetic group of heartless weaklings. This grit conversation was almost non-existent during the series too.

Everyone knows true grit shows up when you're on the PP only. Everything else is just pond hockey

 

[IPS]

Everyone knows true grit shows up when you're on the PP only. Everything else is just pond hockey

True grit is also sucker punching someone in the back of the head.

Pookie only cares if your name is Nazem Kadri though.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Everyone knows true grit shows up when you're on the PP only. Everything else is just pond hockey

I don't know why Dumbas doesn't realize we need Colton Orr on the team to have an effective powerplay.

 

[AreBe]

so many people have decided to spin their narrative if they "were just tougher, and stir." everything will be fine. and it won't. not until they get to theplayoffs, and freaking address the several things that actually cost them the playoffs.

they were never eliminated because they couldn't take a hit or refused to hit. they were eliminated because Andersen was a Sieve. Because they couldn't capitalize on the powerplay. because they couldn't penalty kill if their lives required them to do so. Because Babcock decided to you know limit Matthews when he's having the game of his life in Game six, and then pull the goalie without the Leafs having possession. (or playing Zack Hyman on one leg). a "Players coach" and toughness isn't going to fix all of that.
.

Brilliant!
Zack Hyman taking face-offs in the Leafs end on a penalty kill with a torn ACL is selfish! Not tough! Stupid, stupid, stupid! The Leafs need to learn a bit from the Raptors and not have injured players guaranteeing losses

I agree mostly but why do you think Boston gooned it up in Game 2 after losing Game 1 and don't you think that turned out to be an effective strategy?

Exhibit A of the American Association of US Ice Hockey Teams taking steps to ensure there is no Canadian branch-plant team like the Leafs advancing in the playoffs hurting the chances of a fat- cat US TV deal. Really want to be wrong, but the AAUSIHT screwed over the Leafs.

A math person would know that the math has to actually be statistically significant for it to matter.

And we have an analytics department, churning out correlations and doing big- brain thinking and honest to goodness "math is hard" analysis! Rejoice, rejoice! This is the golden age of Leafs management

 

[IPS]

Exhibit A of the American Association of US Ice Hockey Teams taking steps to ensure there is no Canadian branch-plant team like the Leafs advancing in the playoffs hurting the chances of a fat- cat US TV deal. Really want to be wrong, but the AAUSIHT screwed over the Leafs.

But but but but I was told Kadri was a dirty, selfish clown for his dirty hit and Chara is just a good clean veteran of playoff hockey sucker punching Tavares in the back of the head.

 

[67Leafs67]

well then how about a team coached by Quinn that had Domi, Tucker, Green, Corson, Belak, McCabe, Roberts, Nolan etc etc....and actually managed to do something in the playoffs.

For sure, great teams, lots of good memories. I would never suggest toughness is going to make your team lose, but it certainly isn't the primary ingredient any team should be looking to build around...hence the failure of the Burke era. The Quinn era had tough teams, but what made them successful in the playoffs was that they were consistently one of the deepest scoring teams in the league, and rode some great, hot goaltending from CuJo & Belfour pretty much every post-season as far as it would take them.

 

[Pookie]

But but but but I was told Kadri was a dirty, selfish clown for his dirty hit and Chara is just a good clean veteran of playoff hockey sucker punching Tavares in the back of the head.

Whoever told you all that isn’t telling you the whole story.

Kadri became a clown after 5 head shot suspensions in 7 seasons of hockey.

One is a playoff success. The other a massive playoff failure.

Spot the difference.

 

[IPS]

Whoever told you all that isn’t telling you the whole story.

Kadri became a clown after 5 head shot suspensions in 7 seasons of hockey.

One is a playoff success. The other a massive playoff failure.

Spot the difference.

You can't see the forest for the trees pal

 

[Pookie]

You can't see the forest for the trees pal

Pal? That’s presumptive.

 

[Menzinger]

Nothing happens in a vacuum.

How hard did he train? How did they get on the PP? How did they kill our PPs? Etc etc.

I think you're using such a wide interpetation of "grit" it sort of makes this discussion meaningless.

Matthews had 5 goals that series -does that mean hes showing tough determination?

 

[DarkKnight]

The debate needs to move from “grit” to “compete”, they we don’t get lost in the endless old school/new school go nowhere discussion. Fire and compete always matter in any sport, it’s what separates pure athleticism from a champion.

Last game we lost, but we competed hard. No problem.

 

[Pookie]

I think you're using such a wide interpetation of "grit" it sort of makes this discussion meaningless.

Matthews had 5 goals that series -does that mean hes showing tough determination?

I am using a broader definition of grit which is preferable to folks wanting to equate it to a goon.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Puzzling.

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In the last 70 games, his team has amassed a .500 record. Something only about 23 other teams are better at. And that’s not all. His team has not one, not two but 3 first round playoff experiences. No second rounds yet but he is clearly on the cusp of greatness.

Please put your hands together and welcome our expert who can show you how you too can build a mediocre, arguably underperforming hockey team.

Kyle Dubas every one. Kyle Dubas

You automatically lose any argument when you bring up the previous season . The "Last 70 games" is literally a pointless argument. Want to know why? Because its the last season and it has zero barring on what happens this year. New season, new players, new coaches, harder schedule to start the season including 4 back to backs. If you can't comprehend why the team has a slow start, which has nothing to do with being "soft", then I can't help you. If you put so much emphasis on last season, you'd realize the Leafs hardly got blown out by the Bruins in the post season, you know that significantly tougher team?

Well... here’s the “changed NHL” from last night.



I think the only place where sticking up for a teammate has changed... is here.

This has an unarguable impact on team chemistry and confidence.

Let's not forget that neither team are in a playoff spot, or were in the playoffs last season.

It seems 'silly' to you. Perhaps you haven't experienced it first hand then. You seem to be equating tough with slow....they don't necessarily come as a package deal you know. Speed is good,but not by itself. Give me power forwards,thanks. I don't need them to be the fastest players in the league.

The series last season was no better than the previous ones...opinions will vary. I won't even use any of the series they lost as a gauge of ability. I see it as a reflection of the coach mostly,as well as a few players who aren't mentally tough. But that's a different topic.

Are you honestly suggesting that if I didn't play hockey my opinion doesn't matter? I'm not sure if that's what you're getting at, but if it is, my lord that's a dumb argument.

 

[Ports]

did they win a cup?
no.
then we're not missing much.

No but they won four playoff rounds in two years and they played with heart neither of which this version of the team has.

 

[Ports]

to try to get the Leafs off their game. which is what happened.
and then when the leafs ignored the Bruins gooning it up, and applied their strengths, the Bruins looked in trouble. I want to be clear, I'm not saying that I'm adverse more toughness on the team. I'm saying that people saying that the Leafs have none is completely erronous. I'm also saying people who think that "just mix toughness and stir." will fix all the problems is dead wrong.

quite frankly, if we had more toughness, all we would have is a few more hits that people can go "oh yay isn't that great?!" and we'd still be eliminated because, we can't score on the PP, we can't stop a puck on the PK, and Andy loses his mind in elimination games. address that. then worry about how tough the team can be.

Team toughness gives players more confidence and can be infectious in getting players to back each up, play harder etc. Don’t minimize its impact. It is exactly what this team needs.

 

[Ports]

It was only effective because the refs were ***** and let them get away with it all.

As they mostly do in the playofffs.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Team toughness gives players more confidence and can be infectious in getting players to back each up, play harder etc. Don’t minimize its impact. It is exactly what this team needs.

again. i'm not saying that won't have an impact. but it's not "the thing." it's sprinkles on the sundae. what the Leafs exactly need is to shore everything up. quite frankly they had toughness and they didn't go far either. the significant problems still existed and is still (in my opinion) being ignored. work on the serious issues first, then take care of the toughness.

 

[hector morrison]

You automatically lose any argument when you bring up the previous season . The "Last 70 games" is literally a pointless argument. Want to know why? Because its the last season and it has zero barring on what happens this year. New season, new players, new coaches, harder schedule to start the season including 4 back to backs. If you can't comprehend why the team has a slow start, which has nothing to do with being "soft", then I can't help you. If you put so much emphasis on last season, you'd realize the Leafs hardly got blown out by the Bruins in the post season, you know that significantly tougher team?

Let's not forget that neither team are in a playoff spot, or were in the playoffs last season.


Are you honestly suggesting that if I didn't play hockey my opinion doesn't matter? I'm not sure if that's what you're getting at, but if it is, my lord that's a dumb argument.

The discussion was about toughness vs. soft play...at no point did I make this about 'last year" ...look ,if your comprehension is that poor,or if you just don't get it,then I 'll just move on.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

As they mostly do in the playofffs.

Nope. Refs let many things go but that game was ludicrous. It’s no coincidence that a game like that never happened again.

 

[crump]