OT: Relationship Advice Thread

[LokiDog]

Confidence is what everyone across the board says is the most important thing. Arrogance is often misconstrued as confidence. It's absolutely true.

Sure, but there’s no hack to gaining confidence. It can’t be practiced and faked. That’s not confidence, that’s show and comes off as not being genuine confidence which can come off similar to arrogance.

I don’t know how to help with the magical confidence equation. I imagine it’s different for everyone. I’m really introspective and quiet in my mind, but people think I’m outgoing. I say “what? No, I’m shy, I always have been”. I always was shy. Apparently I’m not anymore. But innately that’s still my personality and how I view myself. I still am introspective and I’m certainly not loud and boisterous but apparently I’ve become very social and conversational and comfortable. Confident I guess. For me I guess three deployments in an armed career field, getting shot at, returning fire, arresting people, dealing with suspects and victims and witnesses regularly, being in a high pressure SWAT role, being in really good shape, having to do a lot of public speaking... if I had to guess those were the ingredients that turned into confidence for me.

Obviously not everyone can do all that and not everyone would want to, nor would it work for them. But if I were to suggest anything that I think would help, I would say, for certain get in the best shape you’ve ever been in. That always assists with confidence. No way around it. Find a good barber and get a sharp haircut. Something you wouldn’t usually do. Ask their opinion. Simplify your wardrobe. No idea how you dress, but a few pairs of well fitting jeans and plain, neutral color t-shirts without logos or words on them is classic. Add a couple nice knit sweaters. Easy. I don’t think I own a shirt that I wear outside of the gym that has words on it. Get a nice pair of boots too. Thursday boots are great and fit any wardrobe. With fitness and fashion out of the way, join something like toastmasters or an online debate club. Practice public speaking. A lot. And also maybe find something like a boot camp/survival skill weekend getaway. Instead of spending money on dating services spend it there. You can’t just synthesize confidence but those are the types of things that will help develop it. Make sure you know how to do simple things like sew a button, change a tire, start a charcoal grill. Simple, simple things. Know how to order a good cocktail and how to recommend one.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Sometimes the right thing is hard to do and that's not an excuse. I don't think every situation is a ghost, either. There was a girl right agreed to go out and then I wanted to exchange numbers and she disappeared. It was kind of a hail Mary because frankly I don't think I had that much chemistry with her but thought maybe there would be on an in person date but I barely talked to her. Knowing that situation, while it wasn't the ideal way to go about it, I didn't consider it a ghost as it happened early on in the process. But this particular case was BS. You saying that it's hard not to ghost, well as a guy there's a lot of hard things I have to do during dates. Even something as simple as asking a woman out is hard. Not nearly as hard as offline, but still. Something being hard doesn't make it right to not do it. So maybe you should work on YOURSELF until you get enough confidence to do the right thing and tell people you're not interested instead of criticizing other people.

BTW, men ghost too, if they do it it's equally as wrong. This isn't just about women. Anyone that does it is wrong. But I'm a man so I'll leave the venting about women getting ghosted to women.

I am working on myself which is why I'm not looking to date right now instead of forcing it

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Also, you're judging me based on me being pissed about shitty behavior probably within an hour it happened. I'm sure you're Zen 24/7.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

If you're a nice guy but you're more shy vs. an asshole that isn't shy but is confident you'll have a harder time. Doesn't mean you're doomed but they're less likely to be successful. Sometimes things are true, even if they're cliche and not politically expedient. Also, this really once again highlights what I'm saying. If a woman is bitter she's a feminist, if a man is bitter he's a "reddit nice guy". Do you not see the inconsistency? Why are women the only ones allowed to be bitter?

This isn't true at all lol. You can be bitter about someone ghosting you, but you seem to be blaming women as a whole for this. And I never said only women can be bitter, this is you projecting.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Also, you're judging me based on me being pissed about shitty behavior probably within an hour it happened. I'm sure you're Zen 24/7.

I'm sorry if I sound like a bitch, and you probably think I do, but I just think it would help you a lot to just forget about dating for awhile. Like I said, I've seen you posting in this thread for like a year, this isn't just from your recent pothole, and I see results that only further affirm your negativity. I don't think this is healthy for your self confidence or mindset.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

@MahomesIsGod I'm not trying to be an ass. But I'm just upset about getting a lecture when I feel like I have a right to be upset. But I'm being a bit of a douche right now.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

This isn't true at all lol. You can be bitter about someone ghosting you, but you seem to be blaming women as a whole for this. And I never said only women can be bitter, this is you projecting.

I know you didn't say it. But this is the general take out there. Also, I'm not blaming all women. Or rather maybe I am but at a certain point when someone is upset at the heat of the moment that's not necessarily representative of him in other times.

 

[LokiDog]

Objectively Mahome’s right. I don’t know either of you and this window into each of your lives is narrow so I won’t try to peg you as this or that... but on a surface level only, without getting personal or meaning anything negative, it does seem like your experiences are causing you to engage in some habits in thinking that will hinder you with women down the road, and it is true that perhaps you would do well to step away from dating for a little while to work on yourself in other areas and return with a different outlook. That’s not a criticism. Surface level, there’s nothing wrong with that advice.

I only became an outgoing and comfortable person (and didn’t even realize it had happened - every time I characterized myself as quiet and shy, my friends contradicted me and said I’m not - up until my mid/late 20s everyone agreed I was shy and then suddenly I was being told “you’re not shy, you’re very good socially”) by accumulating personal experiences and working on my own fitness, my own profession, my own collection of adventures. It happened naturally when I got out of my own way and just pursued being the type of man I wanted to become, rather than trying to become a certain type of man for a specific reason, like dating.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I'm sorry if I sound like a bitch, and you probably think I do, but I just think it would help you a lot to just forget about dating for awhile. Like I said, I've seen you posting in this thread for like a year, this isn't just from your recent pothole, and I see results that only further affirm your negativity. I don't think this is healthy for your self confidence or mindset.

I think the situation is a little more complicated than what this thread suggests. I generally have very little dating experience and within the last year I've improved in a lot of ways. I lost over 60 pounds and have changed mentally in a lot of ways as a result (my confidence is the highest it's ever been). So I've been dating a lot more but not getting anywhere. It's incredibly frustrating.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Objectively Mahome’s right. I don’t know either of you and this window into each of your lives is narrow so I won’t try to peg you as this or that... but on a surface level only, without getting personal or meaning anything negative, it does seem like your experiences are causing you to engage in some habits in thinking that will hinder you with women down the road, and it is true that perhaps you would do well to step away from dating for a little while to work on yourself in other areas and return with a different outlook. That’s not a criticism. Surface level, there’s nothing wrong with that advice.

I only became an outgoing and comfortable person (and didn’t even realize it had happened - every time I characterized myself as quiet and shy, my friends contradicted me and said I’m not - up until my mid/late 20s everyone agreed I was shy and then suddenly I was being told “you’re not shy, you’re very good socially”) by accumulating personal experiences and working on my own fitness, my own profession, my own collection of adventures. It happened naturally when I got out of my own way and just pursued being the type of man I wanted to become, rather than trying to become a certain type of man for a specific reason, like dating.

I'm not shy per se actually. I'm very outgoing in friendly situations, some would say too outgoing. I just think that I'm missing some social element, maybe it's flirting, maybe it's confidence (I try to keep it in check, but who knows if it seeps through?), that result in women not being romantically interested in me. This will sound like me bragging but when it comes to making friends and getting people to like me platonically I'm very good at it. But romantically it just doesn't happen. There are people that are far shier than me that get a lot further than me.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I apologize everyone what direction this thread took. I was honestly just really upset yesterday, I'm more or less over it today.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I think the situation is a little more complicated than what this thread suggests. I generally have very little dating experience and within the last year I've improved in a lot of ways. I lost over 60 pounds and have changed mentally in a lot of ways as a result (my confidence is the highest it's ever been). So I've been dating a lot more but not getting anywhere. It's incredibly frustrating.

That's fantastic! I've been exercising/calorie counting to get in better shape myself, and know how difficult it is. I still cheat too much, but I've managed to consistently exercise for 6 days a week the past few weeks which I've never managed before. Also swapped out sugary tea for only water which should help me lose weight at a decent rate.

I fully understand your frustration with what happened. It's happened to me plenty of times so I know the feeling. Personally, I think online dating is absolute shit for most of the population, and it leads to bitterness for any gender. I've pretty much dropped it for now, talking to a bunch of dudes and clicking with none of them made me feel like an alien, lol.

 

[LokiDog]

I'm not shy per se actually. I'm very outgoing in friendly situations, some would say too outgoing. I just think that I'm missing some social element, maybe it's flirting, maybe it's confidence (I try to keep it in check, but who knows if it seeps through?), that result in women not being romantically interested in me. This will sound like me bragging but when it comes to making friends and getting people to like me platonically I'm very good at it. But romantically it just doesn't happen. There are people that are far shier than me that get a lot further than me.

They are definitely two different types of outgoing but... it’s good that you’re already good at making friends and platonically socializing because it means you’re probably not as far from having romantic success as it feels like. From following your posts in here for a while though, it does feel like you’re in your own head too much. Like you might be your own worst enemy here. Not because of something you’re actively doing but kind of like when a goal scorer gets in a slump and they start thinking about breaking it so much that they start missing the net more and fanning on good chances. There’s nothing wrong with them but they’ve gotten in their own way mentally. You probably would benefit from just ignoring the dating world for a bit... or continuing to swipe but simply not caring. No expectations. Just whatever. Almost expect it not to work and just have fun with it. Play different characters. Do it for fun not for actual results.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

That's fantastic! I've been exercising/calorie counting to get in better shape myself, and know how difficult it is. I still cheat too much, but I've managed to consistently exercise for 6 days a week the past few weeks which I've never managed before. Also swapped out sugary tea for only water which should help me lose weight at a decent rate.

I fully understand your frustration with what happened. It's happened to me plenty of times so I know the feeling. Personally, I think online dating is absolute shit for most of the population, and it leads to bitterness for any gender. I've pretty much dropped it for now, talking to a bunch of dudes and clicking with none of them made me feel like an alien, lol.

The thing is, it sucks for everyone but women have more options. Most of the options are just guys swiping right without even working. My mom's friend is 56 (she looks 10 years younger though). At one point she got rid of the age filter and you saw 18 year old boys swiping right on her. That said you still have more options and some of them will probably not be creeps. But yeah dating apps are f***ing terrible. That said I'm not in better in real life at this.

 

[LokiDog]

Also if you’ve lost 60lbs in the last year and don’t have a lot of dating experience, you’re doing fine. It’s coming along. Dude, every one of us gets ghosted and flaked on. I’ve slept with dozens of women and I’ve been stood up plenty. I’m engaged now, obviously, but I did great with women, and still also went through the same things you’re going through. I just had both sides of the coin. You’ve had mostly the bad side but you’re also newer to the scene and in a new body. This is all just practice. It will come. The stuff you’re experiencing happens to everyone, even the most successful guys, it just has less of an impact on you once you have a couple of successes in the mix as well. That’s coming for you. Just don’t take anything personally and don’t judge women as a group based on these experiences even if they seem to be recurring. Stay positive and care less. And keep improving yourself. It’ll happen.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

The thing is, it sucks for everyone but women have more options. Most of the options are just guys swiping right without even working. My mom's friend is 56 (she looks 10 years younger though). At one point she got rid of the age filter and you saw 18 year old boys swiping right on her. That said you still have more options and some of them will probably not be creeps. But yeah dating apps are f***ing terrible. That said I'm not in better in real life at this.

Yeah I mean if you're just moderately attractive you'll have too many matches to count as a woman. a lot of guys just swipe right indiscriminately too. It's kinda overwhelming. can't wait until i can just go to a bar post covid and mingle in person. i'm way lamer behind a keyboard than in person lol.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

They are definitely two different types of outgoing but... it’s good that you’re already good at making friends and platonically socializing because it means you’re probably not as far from having romantic success as it feels like. From following your posts in here for a while though, it does feel like you’re in your own head too much. Like you might be your own worst enemy here. Not because of something you’re actively doing but kind of like when a goal scorer gets in a slump and they start thinking about breaking it so much that they start missing the net more and fanning on good chances. There’s nothing wrong with them but they’ve gotten in their own way mentally. You probably would benefit from just ignoring the dating world for a bit... or continuing to swipe but simply not caring. No expectations. Just whatever. Almost expect it not to work and just have fun with it. Play different characters. Do it for fun not for actual results.

I'm the Giants of the first 8 weeks. I'm aware some people are the Jets. I'm not a disgusting slob that has no social skills. There are people worse off than me. I have done a matchmaking service where you get feedback. Almost all of the feedback was overwhelmingly positive, smart, good looking, funny, good conversationalist, gentleman. However, almost all of them said there was no romantic connection. I'm convinced it's because of my experience in friendly social situations but not dating. I'm not very good at flirting. Actually even that is a bit more nuanced. I have a female friend that I really like but she's older, has 5 kids, and lives in Virginia. But because I'm comfortable with her and legit like her I'm pretty good at flirting. But on these dates, I'm good at conversation but I get writer's block when it comes to flirting. I get the feeling the girls all get a friendly feeling from me.

 

[LokiDog]

My go to was honestly going to happy hour alone. I’d sit at the bar and chat with the bartender and eventually I’d chat with a group of young ladies that sat nearby or I’d approach someone who was there alone. Don’t use lines. Don’t try to be anything you aren’t. I’m a military guy who is a loner and drinks a lot. So I’d sit quietly having a few pints and then when I had an opening I’d take it. Like professional women doing shots on a Wednesday. I’d just say, “light night, ladies?”. After 10 minutes I might ask the bartender what they’re doing shots of and then send them a round. Sometimes they’d ask me to do a shot with them since I made fun of them. Usually I didn’t even have a target in the group but now I had an invite to chat with them and ask what they do, what they’re celebrating, whatever... and figure out if I wanted to actually flirt with one of them. Not gonna sit here and say the apps weren’t useful as well sometimes, but I’d much rather do it organically, in person.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Also if you’ve lost 60lbs in the last year and don’t have a lot of dating experience, you’re doing fine. It’s coming along. Dude, every one of us gets ghosted and flaked on. I’ve slept with dozens of women and I’ve been stood up plenty. I’m engaged now, obviously, but I did great with women, and still also went through the same things you’re going through. I just had both sides of the coin. You’ve had mostly the bad side but you’re also newer to the scene and in a new body. This is all just practice. It will come. The stuff you’re experiencing happens to everyone, even the most successful guys, it just has less of an impact on you once you have a couple of successes in the mix as well. That’s coming for you. Just don’t take anything personally and don’t judge women as a group based on these experiences even if they seem to be recurring. Stay positive and care less. And keep improving yourself. It’ll happen.

Thanks, basically this is where I am. I understand everyone has their failures but it would be nice to get some successes under my belt. That's what frustrating.

 

[LokiDog]

I'm the Giants of the first 8 weeks. I'm aware some people are Jets. I'm not a disgusting slob that has no social skills. There are people worse off than me. I have done a matchmaking service where you get feedback. Almost all of the feedback was overwhelmingly positive, smart, good looking, funny, good conversationalist, gentleman. However, almost all of them said there was no romantic connection. I'm convinced it's because of my experience in friendly social situations but not dating. I'm not very good at flirting. Actually even that is a bit more nuanced. I have a female friend that I really like but she's older, has 5 kids, and lives in Virginia. But because I'm comfortable with her and legit like her I'm pretty good at flirting. But on these dates, I'm good at conversation but I get writer's block when it comes to flirting. I get the feeling the girls all get a friendly feeling from me.

Flirting is typically really just making the most harmless fun of each other and yourself. Find ways to laugh. Eventually just make a slight, slight harmless, not creepy (didn’t I mention slight) innuendo as a joke. Like if the food is too hot, just say I agree. Wait, you’re talking about the food? I don’t know. There will be an opening. That’s a generic bad example. But really flirting is kind of teasing. It’s not calling them beautiful or expressing that you’re interested. It’s making them laugh with you and turning the subject of the laughter slightly romantic over time. Like joking about her finding you attractive or vice versa. Or saying “oh I don’t do that on the first date” to something that’s totally innocent.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Flirting is typically really just making the most harmless fun of each other and yourself. Find ways to laugh. Eventually just make a slight, slight harmless, not creepy (didn’t I mention slight) innuendo as a joke. Like if the food is too hot, just say I agree. Wait, you’re talking about the food? I don’t know. There will be an opening. That’s a generic bad example. But really flirting is kind of teasing. It’s not calling them beautiful or expressing that you’re interested. It’s making them laugh with you and turning the subject of the laughter slightly romantic over time. Like joking about her finding you attractive or vice versa. Or saying “oh I don’t do that on the first date” to something that’s totally innocent.

I know you what you mean but my mind just doesn't go there normally. I don't know, maybe I'm concentrating too much about having good conversation.

 

[ponzu4u]

She flaked. Just unmatched me. Then when men are bitter by such callous behavior by women they become demonized and called misogynists.

Damn. Sorry to hear that. Another reason dating apps suck -- people can get away with things they wouldn't in real life without repercussions to themselves, but still make the other person feel like shite.

 

[Machinehead]

I never felt being shy and confident are mutually exclusive.

Believe it or f***ing not, I'm not a talker. I could go on forever about things I'm interested in and know about, which is why I post so quickly and often on a hockey forum. But that's not talking, that's hockey.

Or it's soccer, or sociology, or politics, or music, or gaming; things I often talk about.

Many people talk to just to talk, and they enjoy it. They're conversationalists. It's about the conversation for the sake of conversation and not the topic. That's not me. If I don't jive with the topic, I'm perfectly happy to sit and listen, so many people who know me will describe me as shy.

That's why I hate online dating. You have to manufacture conversation. It's some people, but it ain't me.

If that's you, and you accept that, you're still confident.

 

[kovazub94]

I know you what you mean but my mind just doesn't go there normally. I don't know, maybe I'm concentrating too much about having good conversation.

I’d agree with suggestions to remove romantic goals out the equation for now, dealing with pandemic is hard enough.

I also applaud you for losing 60 lb, that’s not a small accomplishment and you should be proud of this. However, you should ask yourself if you resolved issues that caused you to over-indulge in the first place? Because it was a symptom rather than a “disease” itself.

Outside of this you should listen and HEAR opinion and advice of your platonic female friends. When romance is out of the equation you might get to hear honest opinions and provide you with perspective on various subjects, but again you have to step out of your subjectivity to truly gain an understanding of how female minds work and what are the true motivations behind certain actions, rather than what YOU think these motivations are. I’d also use such friends to address personal appearance - not just wardrobe - but haircut, facial hair, cologne etc. Obviously they have to be good in their own presentation, even better if they have significant others who are good in this department too.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Hang in there, Snow. Youll find a beaut eventually. And when you do- you'll get a bit anxious thinking something will go wrong because it's going way too smoothly. No games, no big red flags, etc...only two people enjoying each others company and intimacy. Cherish those moments when they come; theyre rare. The honeymoon phase is an incredible ride. Some of the best times of my life are held within the first 6 months of my relationship with my wife.

Try not to let failed attempts make you bitter. Dont judge too harshly. I went through a similar phase when I was younger, and I wasnt in a good place in life.

There are great women out there. Dont ever doubt that. I know it's easy to when youre in a funk, but it isn't true. Also, those cocky and arrogant dudes get played out quickly. I cant tell you how many of those guys are washed up when theyre well into their 30s.