Referee Bias against the Leafs - Something needs to be done

[Azazel]

Hey look its the official that had to 'retire' because he was caught on mic admitting to game management. Sure looks unbiased to me. Im sure he never let his bias extend to his "Managing" games.

The guy is just a fan now. So fair enough. But it doesn't take a mental illness to believe the current roster of officials have biases as well.

Add to that everything we already know about Conflicts of Interest that exist in NHL head office, The court documents from the Dean Warren case showing Campbell and Walkom looking for reasons to fire Warren for not calling the game the way 'they' like, and suddenly the picture becomes clearer.

I have the court documents if anyone is interested. As well as a TSN article discussing Gregory Campbell calling his father "every game" during Bostons run to the finals. Did I forget to mention they (Campbell+Walkom) were really pissed at Warren for calling a penalty against Gregory?(thank you Tyler Dellow) BTW Campbell and Walkom are still very much employed with NHL head office. Walkom somehow still has his job as senior director of officiating. Campbell is the current Executive vice president of hockey operations.

But yeah keep up the Ad Hominem.

 

[brianok]

In game 7 against the Canadiens last year the Leafs had 2 power plays in the third period (the Canadiens had none)

 

[Brown Dog]

What really burns me is that the ref ignored a blatant trip on Nylander behind the net while Leafs were on the PP late in Game 7. The penalty was clear as day and I'm sure was ignored because the referee didn't want to influence the game by awarding a 5-on-3 at that critical stage of a one-goal Game 7.

But the officials had no such compunction about calling Kerfoot on a less egregious infraction on the PK in an equally critical moment in Game 6.

Whether it's crooked or just incompetent, the officiating in the NHL sucks.

 

[General Fanager]

I dont see it myself. they have good nights and bad nights....no bias though

 

[notDatsyuk]

I have found while coaching kids that one of the hardest things to teach a lot of them is acceptance.

Whether it's a single at bat, a breakaway, a penalty kick, or an entire game or series, sometimes you lose, and the best thing to do is to just acknowledge that the other player or team won that particular time.

That's a winning attitude, but the more often you find something or someone to blame, the less likely you are to try to improve, and the less likely you are to succeed the next time.

 

[Stephen]

Tampa got 2x goals called back in a 0-0 close out game vs Florida. And they just shrugged it off and kept going.

 

[Azazel]

So we now know that Tim Peel is a St. Louis fan.
We also know that Tim Peel was caught on mic saying he was LOOKING to give Nashville a penalty.
What was NEVER said, was that it was to keep the game "fair"

St Louis and Nashville are in the same division.

Oh and the leagues response? Cover your mics.

 

[Azazel]

I have found while coaching kids that one of the hardest things to teach a lot of them is acceptance.

Whether it's a single at bat, a breakaway, a penalty kick, or an entire game or series, sometimes you lose, and the best thing to do is to just acknowledge that the other player or team won that particular time.

That's a winning attitude, but the more often you find something or someone to blame, the less likely you are to try to improve, and the less likely you are to succeed the next time.

As a fan, what are you expecting of us? Do you believe that if I "fan" correctly The Leafs will win? How do I, as a fan, improve so we can succeed next time? If, by some magic, me doing 10 pushups means we win the next Game 7, then ill do 20.

No one is suggesting the Leafs should stop trying, or looking to improve their game.

What we want is the integrity of the game back, and accountability.
When it was found out that Campbell and Walkom were using personal bias to decide what is/isn't a penalty, they should have been fired/removed from their position.

That never happened.

 

[Al14]

Tampa got 2x goals called back in a 0-0 close out game vs Florida. And they just shrugged it off and kept going.

They were up 3 games to none, they were not worried the way they had won those first 3 games. Their confidence was very high at that point.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Bottom line 2 very borderline high sticking calls (for different reasons; one of which was not even a high stick but a fake reaction by Tampa which of course was not called) in a row for almost a full 2 minute 5 on 3 in 3rd period of a close out game where Leafs had a 1 goal lead. And in that game there were no goals scored on PP by either team.

This was GAME management at its worst. Call it what you want but to win a Cup you must earn a win and Tampa in my books only earned 3 wins in that series. They were given game 6.

 

[notDatsyuk]

As a fan, what are you expecting of us? Do you believe that if I "fan" correctly The Leafs will win? How do I, as a fan, improve so we can succeed next time? If, by some magic, me doing 10 pushups means we win the next Game 7, then ill do 20.

No one is suggesting the Leafs should stop trying, or looking to improve their game.

What we want is the integrity of the game back, and accountability.
When it was found out that Campbell and Walkom were using personal bias to decide what is/isn't a penalty, they should have been fired/removed from their position.

That never happened.

You would likely be surprised at how much we fans affect the players.

The more fans complain about the officiating, or anything else, especially in these days of (anti)social media, the more the regular media address it, and the more management can relax, and players are allowed to think it's beyond their control.

I'm not sure the integrity is worse than it used to be. If anything, it's just easier to notice, and a lot easier to rant about it.

I'm not gullible enough to expect fans to change, especially just based on my observations, any more than I expect the league to change just because a few posters on a team message board express their opinions.

 

[keonsbitterness]

If you think there is ref bias to the point where it's impossible for the Leafs to ever succeed, something does need to be done: STOP WATCHING!!!

There is no logic in continuing to watch something you think is fixed.

 

[Brown Dog]

I'll say this...I do think the job of an NHL referee is incredibly hard. The speed of the game, the physicality, that there are borderline infractions on almost every shift, and the subjectivity inherent in almost every type of penalty makes it very challenging to get the calls right consistently. It's also somewhat natural that referees would be more or less likely to make calls based on the stakes of the moment. It might be the most difficult pro sport to officiate well.

... that being said...

In my opinion, as a group NHL referees are by far the least consistent and most error-prone of all pro sports officials. The adherence to "game management" philosophy is dumb and they rely too heavily on calling certain things religiously (nowadays I'm thinking any type of stick tap to the gloves, regardless of whether it impedes the puck-carrier) and other things very randomly (cross-checks, interference, after-the-whistle roughing).

What's more, the Leafs do seem to get the short end of the stick on calls more often than not, including in that series with Tampa Bay.

 

[Azazel]

You would likely be surprised at how much we fans affect the players.

The more fans complain about the officiating, or anything else, especially in these days of (anti)social media, the more the regular media address it, and the more management can relax, and players are allowed to think it's beyond their control.

I'm not sure the integrity is worse than it used to be. If anything, it's just easier to notice, and a lot easier to rant about it.

I'm not gullible enough to expect fans to change, especially just based on my observations, any more than I expect the league to change just because a few posters on a team message board express their opinions.

See I like this, because now we are getting down to why you and I see things differently. I can't imagine my ranting about the officials has any effect on the on ice product. However we are also in a position where the only people "allowed" to point out inconsistencies in officiating, is us the fans.

Players can't say anything, coaches can't say anything, GMs ect.

That only leaves us.

 

[notDatsyuk]

See I like this, because now we are getting down to why you and I see things differently. I can't imagine my ranting about the officials has any effect on the on ice product. However we are also in a position where the only people "allowed" to point out inconsistencies in officiating, is us the fans.

Players can't say anything, coaches can't say anything, GMs ect.

That only leaves us.

I suppose the real point is what do you think is the more likely outcome of Leafs fans complaining about the refs, and the Toronto media repeating it?

Leafs management and players finding a built-in excuse, or the league making changes?

 

[Azazel]

I suppose the real point is what do you think is the more likely outcome of Leafs fans complaining about the refs, and the Toronto media repeating it?

Leafs management and players finding a built-in excuse, or the league making changes?

Well, if they used that as an excuse not to try, then yeah thats something I would expect Dubas and Keefe to address through moves. I would assume that wouldn't be the case, I hope these players have run into things such as this before, and have learned to play through it. This team has won despite the officials a few times before.

If we keep the pressure up I believe the league will do one of two things :
a) Attempt to punish us by calling more crap. Problem with that is it plays directly into my hands. By calling more garbage calls they admit to fixing games through that action alone. Calling the play based on anger at the fans is no different than calling penalties because you hate a team.
or
b) They make changes. They will never admit it was because of fan pressure. But at this point they can use the 'inconsistency' excuse to move on from Walkom. No one would question if he was relieved due to incompetence. His emails, the Tim Peel thing or straight up nepotism.

 

[Lightsol]

There is another way of viewing their bad luck among calls made by referees. One of the skills that the Tampa Bay Lightning has developed, which the Toronto Maple Leafs must also learn, is how to "play the rules" just short of an infraction. This is a real art, and if the Toronto Maple Leafs are to emerge winning the playoffs in their division next year, they have to learn this art by watching teams like the Tampa Bay Lightning. Until they study how referees call penalties, (and make other calls,) and learn how to take advantage of that knowledge, they will always be unlucky. They need to practice this in the regular season so that they can use it in the playoffs.

If the Leafs tried to play a series the way Tampa just played that one, guarantee they're the only playoff team that year to get an embellishment penalty.

 

[authentic]

What really burns me is that the ref ignored a blatant trip on Nylander behind the net while Leafs were on the PP late in Game 7. The penalty was clear as day and I'm sure was ignored because the referee didn't want to influence the game by awarding a 5-on-3 at that critical stage of a one-goal Game 7.

But the officials had no such compunction about calling Kerfoot on a less egregious infraction on the PK in an equally critical moment in Game 6.

Whether it's crooked or just incompetent, the officiating in the NHL sucks.

Not to mention in game 7 the winning goal happened because Killorn held Kampf's stick and pulled it right out of his hand not allowing him to stick check Paul when he was perfectly within reach and meanwhile Tavares had a goal called back for a pick that basically never gets called. The officiating was just gross on so many levels those last two games.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

See I like this, because now we are getting down to why you and I see things differently. I can't imagine my ranting about the officials has any effect on the on ice product. However we are also in a position where the only people "allowed" to point out inconsistencies in officiating, is us the fans.

Players can't say anything, coaches can't say anything, GMs ect.

That only leaves us.

Why is it that Boston's Cassidy can bitch and moan about the previous games calls and doesn't get fined but our heroes in the front office who are the richest by far are too afraid to say something?

It's called greasing the skids...and if you bitch about a bad call...they are less likely to err against you again because it will look vindictive on their part. This is why I don't get the silence is golden stuff from MLSE. What are they going to do against you? Give you worse calls? Then turn up the bitch meter to 11 and see how they handle it.

The fact that Shanny is too scared to say anything is sad really.

 

[Al14]

Why is it that Boston's Cassidy can bitch and moan about the previous games calls and doesn't get fined but our heroes in the front office who are the richest by far are too afraid to say something?

It's called greasing the skids...and if you bitch about a bad call...they are less likely to err against you again because it will look vindictive on their part. This is why I don't get the silence is golden stuff from MLSE. What are they going to do against you? Give you worse calls? Then turn up the bitch meter to 11 and see how they handle it.

The fact that Shanny is too scared to say anything is sad really.

Shanahan has worked for the NHL in the past !!! He knows his time with our Leafs will eventually come to an end. Even his family still lives in the NJ area, so he's keeping his options open to return to working for the NHL.

His silence is indicative of him not wanting to PISS OFF Bettman, Jacobs, and company !!! Shanahan might even have aspirations of replacing Bettman !!! JMHO.

 

[Stephen]

Why is it that Boston's Cassidy can bitch and moan about the previous games calls and doesn't get fined but our heroes in the front office who are the richest by far are too afraid to say something?

It's called greasing the skids...and if you bitch about a bad call...they are less likely to err against you again because it will look vindictive on their part. This is why I don't get the silence is golden stuff from MLSE. What are they going to do against you? Give you worse calls? Then turn up the bitch meter to 11 and see how they handle it.

The fact that Shanny is too scared to say anything is sad really.

The Toronto Maple Leafs organization seems to always want to be the good guys. There's just a top down lack of bite, assertiveness, confrontation and personality.

 

[Vaive50]

Bottom line 2 very borderline high sticking calls (for different reasons; one of which was not even a high stick but a fake reaction by Tampa which of course was not called) in a row for almost a full 2 minute 5 on 3 in 3rd period of a close out game where Leafs had a 1 goal lead. And in that game there were no goals scored on PP by either team.

This was GAME management at its worst. Call it what you want but to win a Cup you must earn a win and Tampa in my books only earned 3 wins in that series. They were given game 6.

Tampa really only "earned" 2 wins, game 7 was also gift wrapped to them. That game was totally decided on how the refs wanted to decide it. If they're going to call JT's goal back, then call both of Paul's goals back (for interference) and we win 1-0 (fair is fair) but they only wanted to call back what they had to for their team to win.

 

[paulhiggins]

If you think there is ref bias to the point where it's impossible for the Leafs to ever succeed, something does need to be done: STOP WATCHING!!!

There is no logic in continuing to watch something you think is fixed.

Wrestling seems to have a lot of fans watching, despite the fixing. Ditto the Olympic Games.

 

[stealth1]

All teams blame the refs on why they lose. The Leafs lost game 7 fair and square. They had 3 PPs to change the outcome. Only on the last one did they look good on it. Blaming the refs is the cheap way out. It's time to accept that the leagues best PP was awful for the majority of the series. Score 1 or 2 more on the PP and the series changes.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Wrestling seems to have a lot of fans watching, despite the fixing. Ditto the Olympic Games.

Wrestling actually lost fans when it became common knowledge it was scripted, and then UFC started targeting wrestling fans.

People watch Olympics for the spectacle and nationalism as much as for sports.