Referee Bias against the Leafs - Something needs to be done

[notDatsyuk]

It really doesn't matter. If in game seven the refs had called ten penalties against Tampa and none against Toronto, and Tampa won 1-0, there would be fans who blamed the refs for not calling an eleventh, and insisted that it was a conspiracy.

 

[Azazel]

"Everyone complains about the ref when their wrestler loses." Sorry ive heard this argument before. These are the same arguments ive had in the schoolyard when there was still a question about the WWF. There are still people who will argue with you till you're blue in the face that the WWE isnt fake. People arguing only proves that some people refuse to accept any evidence that disproves their beliefs.

 

[deprw]

It really doesn't matter. If in game seven the refs had called ten penalties against Tampa and none against Toronto, and Tampa won 1-0, there would be fans who blamed the refs for not calling an eleventh, and insisted that it was a conspiracy.

It just causes some scrutiny when refs don't call clear infraction in GWG in game 7, after they call goal back in other end few moments earlier. Holl gave a reason, Killorn gave a reason. Only one counted.

I can't remember a moment in these series clinching games where we got some kind of advantage in close situation. There is no scrutiny about how refs favored Leafs, because that really doesn't happen.

Actually it should sometime happen, that it goes other way around, that we get that soft call or goal called back or something.

 

[capfit9]

It just causes some scrutiny when refs don't call clear infraction in GWG in game 7, after they call goal back in other end few moments earlier. Holl gave a reason, Killorn gave a reason. Only one counted.

I can't remember a moment in these series clinching games where we got some kind of advantage in close situation. There is no scrutiny about how refs favored Leafs, because that really doesn't happen.

Actually it should sometime happen, that it goes other way around, that we get that soft call or goal called back or something.

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[deprw]

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Thanks for your input.

 

[borjesalming]

It just causes some scrutiny when refs don't call clear infraction in GWG in game 7, after they call goal back in other end few moments earlier. Holl gave a reason, Killorn gave a reason. Only one counted.

I can't remember a moment in these series clinching games where we got some kind of advantage in close situation. There is no scrutiny about how refs favored Leafs, because that really doesn't happen.

Actually it should sometime happen, that it goes other way around, that we get that soft call or goal called back or something.

 

[deprw]

It just causes some scrutiny when refs don't call clear infraction in GWG in game 7, after they call goal back in other end few moments earlier. Holl gave a reason, Killorn gave a reason. Only one counted.

I can't remember a moment in these series clinching games where we got some kind of advantage in close situation. There is no scrutiny about how refs favored Leafs, because that really doesn't happen.

Actually it should sometime happen, that it goes other way around, that we get that soft call or goal called back or something.

And I'm not actually saying that it should go that way, but in long run it should sometimes happen, just because of the variance. Try to maximize all the variables you can and those you can't will play out how they play out. Sometimes you lose some because of bad luck and sometimes you win just because of good luck. It's just nature of the game and chance. Sometimes it favors you even if you don't deserve it.

 

[borjesalming]

There is another way of viewing their bad luck among calls made by referees. One of the skills that the Tampa Bay Lightning has developed, which the Toronto Maple Leafs must also learn, is how to "play the rules" just short of an infraction. This is a real art, and if the Toronto Maple Leafs are to emerge winning the playoffs in their division next year, they have to learn this art by watching teams like the Tampa Bay Lightning. Until they study how referees call penalties, (and make other calls,) and learn how to take advantage of that knowledge, they will always be unlucky. They need to practice this in the regular season so that they can use it in the playoffs.

 

[killer1980]

As a gambler, I can tell you we don't remember our good wins as well as we remember our bad beats. The refs are only human but I don't think that the Leafs are unfairly targeted. I do think a lot of fans have to find someone to blame and they blame the refs. I also have found someone to blame. That's the GM. I put it all on him.

 

[deprw]

As a gambler, I can tell you we don't remember our good wins as well as we remember our bad beats. The refs are only human but I don't think that the Leafs are unfairly targeted. I do think a lot of fans have to find someone to blame and they blame the refs. I also have found someone to blame. That's the GM. I put it all on him.

You have a point and in overall I think it's stupid to float this thread on first page. It is what it is, you can't affect referees.

I can guarantee it like Mark Messier, that if we even once win series or get major mistake from referees, that help us clinch a series or avoid it. There isn't fanbase that isn't reminding us about that time, when we got that phantom call when we needed it.

 

[Racer88]

Those must be Florida fans, why in the world would Tampa fans be saying that, they can thank the refs that they are even in the second round, not to mention they're up 3-0 in the second round.

A Florida player tripped the Tampa play right in front of the Ref and no penalty so the Tampa fans let him have it

I'm flipping through channels trying to find the one game where the fans are chanting "refs you rule, great job, keep it up, thanks!"

Sorry but that game does not exist. Lol

 

[Vaive50]

A Florida player tripped the Tampa play right in front of the Ref and no penalty so the Tampa fans let him have it

How soon they forget those game 6 phantom high sticks (2), which allowed them to tie the game. I won't even mention game 7 which was gift wrapped to them by the refs. What spoiled brats.

 

[Racer88]

How soon they forget those game 6 phantom high sticks (2), which allowed them to tie the game. I won't even mention game 7 which was gift wrapped to them by the refs. What spoiled brats.

No kidding eh……..bunch a clowns

 

[Guy Boucher]

It really doesn't matter. If in game seven the refs had called ten penalties against Tampa and none against Toronto, and Tampa won 1-0, there would be fans who blamed the refs for not calling an eleventh, and insisted that it was a conspiracy.

Before G7, I looked up Scouting the Refs.

Thought it was very strange that there was a ref scheduled for the game who gives 60% of the PPs to the away team. Most refs give about 50-55% of PPs to the home team. It's like the one ref (Eric Furlatt) who has a deep deviation from the norm there. Oh, and he's also from Quebec.

Anyways, I wasn't surprised when the JT goal was called back.

 

[Future]

Not sure how people can dismiss a conspiracy against this organization when just about every metric points to it.

I mean, you look at the fact that we have received significantly less powerplay totals compared to nearly every other top team in the league, regularly placing in the bottom 3 in that regard over the past few seasons… or you can look at how our players have been disciplined by the league comparatively to other players/teams committing the same exact actions (if not worse).

If I were Dubas/Shanahan, I would hire a person to simply compile and present the data as well as video evidence to the league and present your case. Doing nothing hasn’t been working.

 

[AvroArrow]

I’m watching the Tampa game and 5 minutes in the fans are chanting “refs you suck”.
I guess it’s not just a conspiracy against the Leafs

Tampa fans also think sitting on a player who doesn't have the puck for 10 seconds isn't interference

Or holding a guy down who doesn't have the puck and grabbing his stick out of his hand isn't a penalty

They have a great team, most of their posters on these boards are genuine people and pretty classy, but they also don't know the rules that well

 

[Al14]

Tampa fans also think sitting on a player who doesn't have the puck for 10 seconds isn't interference

Or holding a guy down who doesn't have the puck and grabbing his stick out of his hand isn't a penalty

They have a great team, most of their posters on these boards are genuine people and pretty classy, but they also don't know the rules that well

Exactly, there is no way of knowing if the Holl pick penalty if not committed would have prevented Tavares from scoring. However, when Tavares did score, the Refs arm went up and the goal was called off. It's also too bad that this type of penalty is RARELY called at all !!!

When Muzzin was interfered with, and had his stick pulled out of his hands, there was NO WAY of knowing that he could have prevented Paul from scoring. But we all know the Refs both looked the other way and CALLED NOTHING against Tampa Bay.

Those two incidents are FACTS, and NOT FICTION !!! Bettman got the ALL FLORIDA series that he wanted to help sell hockey in the deep south. U.S. TV contracts, and selling 'hockey' in the U.S. of A. is far more important than having loyal Leaf fans rewarded with a Cup, especially since a portion of what we Leaf fans give to MLSE goes to have small market U.S.A. NHL hockey teams help beat our Leafs !!!

Sure, we Leaf fans might overstate the referee bias against our Leafs, but to completely ignore the facts and say that it's NOT HAPPENING is naive and ludicrous.

In 1993, the NHL DID NOT WANT an all Canadian Stanley Cup final. Fraser knew exactly what he was doing when he DID NOT kick Gretzky out of the game for cutting up Gilmour. Even Gretzky knew he was guilty and slinked off without trying to defend himself to Fraser.

The bias is real. Why is there not even one GTA raised referee ???

 

[notDatsyuk]

Before G7, I looked up Scouting the Refs.

Thought it was very strange that there was a ref scheduled for the game who gives 60% of the PPs to the away team. Most refs give about 50-55% of PPs to the home team. It's like the one ref (Eric Furlatt) who has a deep deviation from the norm there. Oh, and he's also from Quebec.

Anyways, I wasn't surprised when the JT goal was called back.

Even you average blind as a bat ref looking the other way couldn't have missed that. It was one of the most blatant picks I've seen. Even at that it might not have been called except for the puck going in the net.

 

[Guy Boucher]

Even you average blind as a bat ref looking the other way couldn't have missed that. It was one of the most blatant picks I've seen. Even at that it might not have been called except for the puck going in the net.

This is called "hindsight bias". The Holl pick "couldn't have been missed" because they didn't miss it. Had they let that goal go, but called back the Nick Paul goal because Killorn ripped the stick out of Muzzin's hands, then we would make the same argument that it "couldn't have been missed".

 

[Blanche Blanche]

This thread is embarrassing.

There is no bias. What is more likely is that our style of play, and our lack of embellishment, likely cost us calls.

Valid point. But how do you explain 5 back to back penalties against us 3 years ago VS bruins in game 5. Series 3-1 Bruins.

Leafs before adding gritty players.
Bruins with Chara and backed and Marchand being a highlight reel year.

If you think a billionaire business didn’t make decisions to profit even more then I have a bridge to sell you man.

I wish I felt like you did. It was year 2 of Matthews before I witnessed what many here I’ve witnessed.

Cheers man

 

[TakeTheBody]

We lost to back to back Stanley Cup Champs. The Leafs played well. If blaming the refs makes you feels better about it. I think you're misguided and likely have excuses for everything in life.

 

[notDatsyuk]

This is called "hindsight bias". The Holl pick "couldn't have been missed" because they didn't miss it. Had they let that goal go, but called back the Nick Paul goal because Killorn ripped the stick out of Muzzin's hands, then we would make the same argument that it "couldn't have been missed".

Two separate things. They might not have called it, but they couldn't have missed seeing it.

 

[Azazel]

Ad Hominem​

(Attacking the person): This fallacy occurs when, instead of addressing someone's argument or position, you irrelevantly attack the person or some aspect of the person who is making the argument. The fallacious attack can also be direct to membership in a group or institution.

 

[ITM]

We lost to back to back Stanley Cup Champs. The Leafs played well. If blaming the refs makes you feels better about it. I think you're misguided and likely have excuses for everything in life.

Hell of a call out there...

If some have doubt that Tampa won Game 6 or 7 without fortunate circumstances, that hardly translates to a delusional perspective about "everything in life".

Here's what we know: Tampa received a 5 on 3 while down 3-2 in games and the score with ten minutes left in what would have been the deciding period for Toronto. Tampa didn't score after that 5 on 3. So while we don't know what would have happened in game play had there been no 5 on 3, we know Tampa COULDNT score after the 5 on 3.

That's not an excuse, it's reasonable justification to believe that but for the questionable decision, twice over, by the refs in Game 6 that there would have been a different outcome, because after the "but for" moment, there was nothing in the game play to suggest otherwise.

 

[EXTRAS]

We lost to back to back Stanley Cup Champs. The Leafs played well. If blaming the refs makes you feels better about it. I think you're misguided and likely have excuses for everything in life.

Agreed. I think the reason Toronto has a thread like this so prominent is because they have such a massive fanbase. There will be woe is me fans for every team, but because the Toronto fanbase is so immense, it also means they have a ton of woe is me fans that can pile onto a thread like this one and keep it going. It causes all Toronto fans to look bad even though it's only maybe 5% of the group.

And once that 5% can keep this thread running long enough it will normalize it for everyone else, so maybe another %5 of at risk woe as me fans join those all ready ill.