Referee Bias against the Leafs - Something needs to be done

[ALine]

Say what you want about mlb umps, but I do like the ‘set the standard’ aspect of it. Even if it’s a terrible standard it’s somewhat consistent (unless it’s another Toronto team, go figure)

In the NHL it’s impossible to tell what is and what isn’t a penalty, even on a shift to shift basis. ‘Game Management’ I think in the nhl has a time and place to keep some games from boiling over. Like when in the reg. season maroon and simmonds both got the boot for just jawing at each other. Decently fair and that game had the potential to go south quickly after it was all but decided on the scoresheet.
Seeing a team up 3-1 in the third than they start a parade to the box on ticky-tacky calls after an otherwise clean game is not ‘game management’. It’s what I call ‘bullshit’
After Lin’s phantom interference call I game 1 I find myself shouting ‘interference’ at the tv about every 20 seconds.


That being said, in a billion+ dollar entertainment industry (it is a business after all), that is now dabbling in sports betting, there will be a desired outcome that means more revenue. I don’t entirely dismiss the notion that reffing can and will be used to achieve that desired outcome. Now it’s not in a direct way,like they get a memo or something. Its more like certain refs that ‘understand the assignment’ and get more favourable games and playoffs for it.

Bottom line, It’s when a call for one team isn’t one for the other, there is a problem.
Paul Maurice put it best

The black and white calls are all easy. But the entire game is a judgement call. What you’re hoping for is an understandable standard and that’s what we’re all shooting for. But the game at least is viewed in the same kind of judgement band. You get some games called a little tighter, some a little looser, you get in a playoff series you’re looking for that kind of standard. I think the referees have to have room for those judgements. That’s what the whole thing is about.

“I think what we’re talking about is that band of the standard that happens in a game as long as it stays consistent. We understand that sometimes that standard is slightly different. The idea we would get this consistent in 15 rinks a night, that’s just not going to happen. You’re just hopeful that what’s a penalty early is a penalty late.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Reffing has been quite questionable in the last game and it seemsed like they were trying to bring the momentum back towards the Lightning. Hopefully the organization puts in a complaint to the league regarding the reffing bias against the Leafs.

I think the league needs to bring in the coaching challenge in the NHL like it has in the NBA. There was 2 clear questionable Call/Non-Calls that were going against the Leafs.

Muzzin's phantom hooking call
Vasilevskey's playing with the puck outside the crease Non-call.

I am no longer watching this series after the game two fiasco of flopping T.B players and non-calls against the Lightning for clear, more egregious actions. When you reach a certain age, you have plenty of distractions to keep you busy and can choose which products/sponsor to support.

It's insulting to ones intelligence to watch something if you feel it isn't on the level. Worse, when I have little respect for the players who embellish, it just doesn't reflect my own personality so I refrain from watching for the time being.

The inconsistency of reffing has definitely cost the Leafs at least one series. I try to be objective, but I've watched enough hockey to know when to turn it off.

Hopefully they get through the series and the game is called fairly, consistently.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

It's been like this for every Canadian based team for so long.

Any Canadian team that wants to win the cup will not only have to beat their opponent but be so good that they can beat the refs aswell.

It's been so obvious for so long that I don't even whine about it. It's just the way it is.

Wanna bring the cup back to Canada? Better build a team that is simply unstoppable.

 

[Gallagbi]

Maybe that’s because it was a bush league move? It was a dirty play and a suspension was totally justified.

Completely suspension worthy. Reminded me a lot of Edmundson on Simmonds last playoff. Not sure how that was only a fine.

 

[Mr_Fun]

I think the reffing has been fine so far. They're calling it more like regular season and I don't have a problem with that. I somehow don't expect the tin foil hat crowd to see it as reasonably fair but whatever.

 

[Leafsfan74]

I think the reffing has been fine so far. They're calling it more like regular season and I don't have a problem with that. I somehow don't expect the tin foil hat crowd to see it as reasonably fair but whatever.

I wish it was a conspiracy, it's been too consistenly controversial for one side for some time for one not to question it.

Game two Simmonds tangles with a player at the side of the net and he drops to the ice, gloves over his face (what precipitated him to cover his face?). A complete gong show soccer flop penalty call. Warranted or not, TB player acting on the ice deserves an embellishment call.

Later Bunting gets the sin bin for an apparent jab, the Tampa player went down as if he was sniped from a rooftop.

Let's assume this was the standard. Fine. No away from the puck stuff. So, I expect the call when Marner is tripped, then clear interference along the boards against a Leaf (Kerfoot or Nylander, I forget), then the absolute mugging of a Leafs into the back of the T.B net right in front of the ref with no puck in the vicinity.

None of these were called. All of them obvious and legitimate.

I am told that game three was more consistent (I didnt watch it), but, was told that Marner was clearly hooked by Stamkos on a 50/50 near break for Marner with no call that could have cost Leafs the game.

I prefer the refs call the games straight and even tight. I'm sure ESPN prefers it too. It can't be so peculiar and inconsistent to the point I turn off the game and the series, not wanting to legitimize the process.

This is especially frustrating after the back to back Bruins/Kadri fiascos.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Absolutely something has to be done.

People have to stop whining about a bias that doesn't exist.

Silly me, thinking the whining would at least slow down when we are winning.

 

[Lightsol]

The issue isn't that the Leafs mostly aren't called on real penalties, it's that the other team isn't called for the exact same situations or worse. When Vasi fumbled the puck to Marner, Stamkos hooked him worse than that Muzzin penalty. It was not called due to the Leafs being up...and being the Leafs.

That's the part that pisses me off. I don't mind the refs missing calls if they're missing calls both ways and letting the guys play. What I hate is when it seems like a call is or isn't a penalty based on which jersey the offender is wearing. And when it comes to the Leafs, this sort of shit happens way too often.

To be honest, I thought the Game 3 reffing was better than the Game 2 reffing. Game 3 was pretty even (Tampa only had a penalty lead because they flipped the puck over the glass twice); the only really bad calls were Muzzin's phantom hook and letting Vasi break the trapezoid rule. 2 was much worse, as that was blatant game management to give Tampa the win. There's no other way to excuse the Leafs getting two PP's in the first 5 minutes, and then not getting a single PP until the last 5 minutes, while Tampa gets a consecutive SEVEN powerplays...

 

[paulhiggins]

Absolute garbage. Rinse and repeat. Got to get some American flags sewn to the Leafs' jerseys so the refs go easy on us.

 

[BertCorbeau]

It was tilted against the Leafs in the regular season, so it shouldn't be surprising that it's the same in the playoffs.

At least the Leafs are used to the adversity.

 

[Jmo89]

I actually think the reffing has been only below average and not horrendous for once. Big improvement tbh.

Does anyone have a good replay of the Muzzin penalty though? I couldn't spot it in highlites.

Stamkos should have been called for a hook though, and Vasi for the trap penalty. Game management remains the much bigger issue than poor calls.

 

[Eye Test]

Refs have been okay this year. They miss calls on both ends but there is no bias.

The previous playoffs vs Boston the Reffing was atrocious

 

[All Mod Cons]

I actually think this has been the best reffed series we've ever been a part of.

The Boston series are always farcical. Refs completely lose control. Can't really remember the Columbus series. Montreal had cross checking impunity.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Refs will be replaced by robots one day and it will be good watching them skate off the ice for the last time thanks

 

[BertCorbeau]

I actually think this has been the best reffed series we've ever been a part of.

The Boston series are always farcical. Refs completely lose control. Can't really remember the Columbus series. Montreal had cross checking impunity.

After watching this Dallas Calgary game tonight, hard to complain. So many PP's, 4 on 4's

 

[wingman75]

Absolutely something has to be done.

People have to stop whining about a bias that doesn't exist.

Silly me, thinking the whining would at least slow down when we are winning.

I think the bias exists, but not at the league level. These refs all grew up as huge hockey fans... I mean, that is the only way one would end up in that profession... so they all had to be fans or non-fans of certain teams. I personally think that a lot of these guys have a subconscious 'hate' for the Leafs that they have carried with them their whole lives and that comes out sometimes.

On the flip side, I think those few who grew up as HUGE Leafs fans, tend to go the other way to show their unbiasedness, but actually have the opposite effect.

I don't think they mean to... and I am sure this is something that comes up in the selection process.

As much as I would like to deny it, I feel the Habs would be fckd if I was officiating a game that involved them.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I think the bias exists, but not at the league level. These refs all grew up as huge hockey fans... I mean, that is the only way one would end up in that profession... so they all had to be fans or non-fans of certain teams. I personally think that a lot of these guys have a subconscious 'hate' for the Leafs that they have carried with them their whole lives and that comes out sometimes.

On the flip side, I think those few who grew up as HUGE Leafs fans, tend to go the other way to show their unbiasedness, but actually have the opposite effect.

I don't think they mean to... and I am sure this is something that comes up in the selection process.

As much as I would like to deny it, I feel the Habs would be fckd if I was officiating a game that involved them.

So if you're a fan of the Leafs, you're biased against them, and if you're not a fan of the Leafs, you're biased against them?

That doesn't make much sense.

A fair number of fans of all teams, and not just in hockey, think the oficials are biased against them. I think it's much more likely that fans are biased towards the team that they are fans of.

If you frequent other team boards, you'll find that a play is assessed entirely differently, depending on which fan base is talking.

 

[IPS]

Absolutely something has to be done.

People have to stop whining about a bias that doesn't exist.

Silly me, thinking the whining would at least slow down when we are winning.

So if you're a fan of the Leafs, you're biased against them, and if you're not a fan of the Leafs, you're biased against them?

That doesn't make much sense.

A fair number of fans of all teams, and not just in hockey, think the oficials are biased against them. I think it's much more likely that fans are biased towards the team that they are fans of.

If you frequent other team boards, you'll find that a play is assessed entirely differently, depending on which fan base is talking.

You are an Islanders fan trying to police Leafs fan's opinions on their own board

 

[cesareborgia]

Reffing has been quite questionable in the last game and it seemsed like they were trying to bring the momentum back towards the Lightning. Hopefully the organization puts in a complaint to the league regarding the reffing bias against the Leafs.

I think the league needs to bring in the coaching challenge in the NHL like it has in the NBA. There was 2 clear questionable Call/Non-Calls that were going against the Leafs.

Muzzin's phantom hooking call
Vasilevskey's playing with the puck outside the crease Non-call.

Why on earth would the league implement a policy that would limit their ability to influence a game?

 

[notDatsyuk]

You are an Islanders fan trying to police Leafs fan's opinions on their own board

So your only way of pretending to refute my comment is by pointing out that I read more than one board?

Actually, that was part of my point - I read, and post on, several team boards, which is why I understand that 'ref bias' is really 'fan bias'.

I've been a hockey fan, and specifically a Leafs fan, for over 60 years. And I'm not "trying to police" anything, just expressing my opinion.

 

[hockeyes]

I think in general the league is just incompetent and it trickles down to the on-ice product. We see it with their so called player safety rulings that are based more on publicity than actions. That type of mindset is not compatible with referring a competitive sport fairly.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Cereal question, you guys only watch Leafs?

Love hockey watch any games I can and the reffing is the same no matter what games I watch. It's not Leafs bias all 32 teams hate the refs.

One thing consistent is teams that crash the net get a lot of calls going their way. Old school hockey racks up PPs because you have no choice but to use physicality to try to stop the player. New age edge work displays doesn't draw clutch and grab you just need to box out and collapse.

Engvall would be a PP drawing machine if he wasn't soft. Has 1000 chances to crash the net a season and takes 0 of them.

 

[IPS]

I've been a hockey fan, and specifically a Leafs fan, for over 60 years.

You literally post on the Islanders board and refer to the team and the fans as "we" and you literally troll the Leafs on the main board.

 

[notDatsyuk]

You literally post on the Islanders board and refer to the team and the fans as "we" and you literally troll the Leafs on the main board.

I almost invariably refer to the team on whose board I'm posting as 'we'. I refer to the Leafs as 'we' here - why doesn't that count?

If by 'trolling' you mean I don't blindly unequivocally praise everything Leafs on the main boards, but am fair enough to see both sides of an issue, then sure, I troll.

 

[therealkoho]

Reading this thread has taught me the proper meaning of the word bemused, carry on.