Ref assist on leafs shorty.

[cyris]

What are ya gonna do? The refs are considered part of the arena or whatever they say. The unfortunate part is the ref was trying to get out of the way and instead got exactly in the way. Interesting that this doesn't happen more often really.

Yeah I dont disagree. But if the tables were turned most of us wouldn’t like it fair or not. That is the irrationality of fandom.

 

[ijuka]

I’m sure everyone here is lining up to see your well known opinion on anything to do with the leafs. Yawn.

This one's not about Leafs, this one's about reffing in general, and I'd have the exact same opinion no matter what the team was, which you'd know if you weren't filtering my posting history for only stuff having to do with Leafs.

I think I've thrown around the same "infinite job security" etc. complaint about reffing like half a dozen times this year and don't even remember the teams that were involved.

Oh, right. And it's also clearly tongue-in-cheek for that part that does involve Leafs.

 

[syz]

He would have been better off standing still. Did the puck curve on him or something?

 

[MaKarter]

There should be a rule. If the fat guy, not paid to play hockey, falls on the puck for no reason, someone should blow a whistle.

 

[Mr Nogatco]

Dove in front of it like Kevin Costner in The Bodyguard

 

[kingsholygrail]

It was bad enough when they just lean against the boards and act surprised when the puck hits them.

 

[Asdetran]

Imagine if that was the winning goal in game 7 stanley cup final. The website would crash

 

[Grigowski]

Game-Management on a whole new level...... Hilarious.....

What are ya gonna do? The refs are considered part of the arena or whatever they say. The unfortunate part is the ref was trying to get out of the way and instead got exactly in the way. Interesting that this doesn't happen more often really.

He saw the f***ing puck coming at him a mile away. Every capable ref just lifts his leg and not go for a full stretch out dive to stop it.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Leafs fans could make a national past time complaining about shitty officiating that happens just 3 hour later than those poor souls can stay awake for.

Does anything actually happen in Toronto or do you guys just spend 6 hours complaining about Kerry f***ing Fraser, still? I mean holy shit.

My body could fill 10 years energy with your f***ing tears. The electrolytes are real, unlike your angst. It's actually astounding. Cry harder, maybe the Lightning or Bruins will actually hear you this time.

Cheer harder for a bunch of losers like Marner and Matthews. I love watching you guys fail, unlike my stepdad-in-law who hates it. I'd like to see a Toronto Cup for his sake. The rest of you can cry harder for a bigger crew of born losers.

Y'all forgot why Doug Gilmour and Wendel Clark were so beloved. They were true winners who didn't bring it on home like Zepp.

 

[Coffee]

The refs had an assist on Colorados first goal too if you wanna keep count.

We don’t wanna keep count

 

[AvroArrow]

Game winning goal too lol
Yeah not gonna lie I’d be salty if I was an Avs fan.

Meh, we got eliminated in back to back years off goals that came immediately off a missed penalty

This is whatever, kinda hilarious but we had this happen to us a couple times too and posters were quick to point out that by the rule book the referees are considered part of the ice and it's fully legal.

 

[Summer Rose]

Meh, we got eliminated in back to back years off goals that came immediately off a missed penalty

This is whatever, kinda hilarious but we had this happen to us a couple times too and posters were quick to point out that by the rule book the referees are considered part of the ice and it's fully legal.

It would be interesting to know the specifics of how various sports handle officials getting in the way of play, whether getting run into by players or the object of play hitting them. I know some of them from memory, but not necessarily all the exact details except for hockey.

Hockey: part of the game. Pucks hitting them are in play no matter what happens, except that if a puck deflects off an official and directly into the net, it doesn't count. The boards count for making it no longer "directly" in case the very odd and unlikely circumstance were to ever happen that a puck hits an official, then bounces off the boards and into the net.

Baseball/softball: somewhat part of the game. They're all in foul territory except for the second base umpire, but if they accidentally impede a base runner, too bad. A thrown ball bouncing off an umpire, I think, is simply unfortunate but play continues. A batted fair ball is a dead ball, and I believe in that case that the crew chief can award bases or outs based on their judgment of how the play would have unfolded had it not hit them. Not sure what happens if a batted foul ball hits an umpire; that would be an extremely rare occurrence, but I'm sure there's some rule that covers it.

Football: part of the game, more or less at least I think. Players run into officials somewhat uncommonly since most of them are not in bounds during play. Not really sure what happens if the ball hits them. My guess would be that if a live ball hits them that play continues, unless it's a forward pass, in which case the play would be blown dead and the pass ruled incomplete.

Basketball: completely in play as far as I know, though they're almost always out of bounds in the first place. I have, however, seen an errant ball bounce off an official while he was in bounds, play continued, and the team that got the ball off him immediately made a basket. The announcers joked that it was the referee's first NBA assist. A ball bouncing off an official and into the basket is next to impossible, but I have no clue what the ruling would be if that happened.

Rugby: half and half, kind of. The referee is almost always within the field of play, and if they impede a player in some way, well, too bad for them. If the ball hits the referee, play is immediately blown dead and restarted with a scrum with the put-in given to the team last in possession. The touch judges are out of play, and supposed to remain outside the field of play. On the off chance one of them wanders inside the field of play and the ball hits them, it's treated as if the ball went into touch. I know that one because I played rugby, and in amateur rugby it's often the case that only a paid referee is assigned to the game, and each team provides one of their reserves as a touch judge. The touch judge that found themselves in the field of play and hit by the ball was me, and I felt pretty stupid for it.

Australian football: 100% in play. Players impeded by an umpire are out of luck and a ball hitting an umpire in the field of play happens sometimes and play continues. The only caveat that I think I know of (I'm reasonably sure of it but not 100% sure) is that if a ball bounces off an umpire and through the inner goal posts, it's given as a behind (1 point) instead of a goal (6 points).

Soccer: the referee is in play, and the assistants should be out of play at all times (not sure what happens on the off chance one wanders into the field of play when they're not supposed to and the ball hits them, unlike what I know about rugby). I would guess that a ball bouncing off a referee and into the goal doesn't count as a goal, but I'm not sure about that one.

Cricket: umpires can accidentally impede players and play continues, but a ball hitting an umpire (whether thrown or batted) is a dead ball. No more runs can be scored at that point, and if the umpire somehow got in the way of a ball thrown at the wicket for a potential run out, too bad. A batted ball that was obviously headed for a boundary before it hit the umpire? Sucks for the batsman, but too bad.

Those are the ones I can think of, at least.

 

[Miri]

I can assure you that’s probably exactly how he felt based on my personal experience. Say what you want about officials influencing the game with the calls they make or don’t make, because that’s another point entirely, but we really, REALLY don’t want to influence the game by getting in the way of a player or the puck. I can tell you that there have been plenty of times where I’ve inadvertently run a pick on a player or the puck deflected off me even though I was trying to get out of the way of it. It’s bad enough if it causes a meaningful change in the game such as a change of possession. If it directly results in a scoring chance for one of the teams it’s even worse, and the entire time I was watching the play unfold I was thinking something along the lines of, “oh shit… oh shit… please don’t score, please don’t score…” then either breathing a sigh of relief when they didn’t, or wanting to bash my head against the glass when they did.

Btw why was he in Colorado zone during the powerplay, so far away from actual play? If there was a foul behind Toronto goaĺ, would he see it from the place he was when he fell?

 

[MCR74]

Something, something... too many Leaf threads...

 

[Summer Rose]

Btw why was he in Colorado zone during the powerplay, so far away from actual play? If there was a foul behind Toronto goaĺ, would he see it from the place he was when he fell?

All I've seen of it is the clip posted in the OP. It looks like he was the back referee during the power play, so as far as I can tell from the clip, he was more or less in the right position (the clip doesn't show him actually inside the zone, and you're not supposed to cross the blue line as the back referee in the four-official system). To answer your question about if there a foul behind the Toronto goal, that would be where the front referee is supposed to be looking, so it would have been on Kendrick Nicholson to see it. It also looks like he was anticipating the play coming the other way as Toronto went to clear the puck, then caught an edge in an attempt to pivot towards skating back towards the Colorado zone, which is the correct thing to do. However, I will also say that I had pretty limited experience working in the four-official system, and when I did, it was exclusively as a linesman. But, based on what I do know and what I'm able to see in the posted clip, Kelly Sutherland didn't do anything wrong other than having awful luck in catching an edge causing him to fall.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Game-Management on a whole new level...... Hilarious.....



He saw the f***ing puck coming at him a mile away. Every capable ref just lifts his leg and not go for a full stretch out dive to stop it.

Hard to argue and I'd be pissed if I was an Avs fan. No idea what he was thinking. I think he just fell. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

 

[hangman005]

It would be interesting to know the specifics of how various sports handle officials getting in the way of play, whether getting run into by players or the object of play hitting them. I know some of them from memory, but not necessarily all the exact details except for hockey.

Hockey: part of the game. Pucks hitting them are in play no matter what happens, except that if a puck deflects off an official and directly into the net, it doesn't count. The boards count for making it no longer "directly" in case the very odd and unlikely circumstance were to ever happen that a puck hits an official, then bounces off the boards and into the net.

Baseball/softball: somewhat part of the game. They're all in foul territory except for the second base umpire, but if they accidentally impede a base runner, too bad. A thrown ball bouncing off an umpire, I think, is simply unfortunate but play continues. A batted fair ball is a dead ball, and I believe in that case that the crew chief can award bases or outs based on their judgment of how the play would have unfolded had it not hit them. Not sure what happens if a batted foul ball hits an umpire; that would be an extremely rare occurrence, but I'm sure there's some rule that covers it.

Football: part of the game, more or less at least I think. Players run into officials somewhat uncommonly since most of them are not in bounds during play. Not really sure what happens if the ball hits them. My guess would be that if a live ball hits them that play continues, unless it's a forward pass, in which case the play would be blown dead and the pass ruled incomplete.

Basketball: completely in play as far as I know, though they're almost always out of bounds in the first place. I have, however, seen an errant ball bounce off an official while he was in bounds, play continued, and the team that got the ball off him immediately made a basket. The announcers joked that it was the referee's first NBA assist. A ball bouncing off an official and into the basket is next to impossible, but I have no clue what the ruling would be if that happened.

Rugby: half and half, kind of. The referee is almost always within the field of play, and if they impede a player in some way, well, too bad for them. If the ball hits the referee, play is immediately blown dead and restarted with a scrum with the put-in given to the team last in possession. The touch judges are out of play, and supposed to remain outside the field of play. On the off chance one of them wanders inside the field of play and the ball hits them, it's treated as if the ball went into touch. I know that one because I played rugby, and in amateur rugby it's often the case that only a paid referee is assigned to the game, and each team provides one of their reserves as a touch judge. The touch judge that found themselves in the field of play and hit by the ball was me, and I felt pretty stupid for it.

Australian football: 100% in play. Players impeded by an umpire are out of luck and a ball hitting an umpire in the field of play happens sometimes and play continues. The only caveat that I think I know of (I'm reasonably sure of it but not 100% sure) is that if a ball bounces off an umpire and through the inner goal posts, it's given as a behind (1 point) instead of a goal (6 points).

Soccer: the referee is in play, and the assistants should be out of play at all times (not sure what happens on the off chance one wanders into the field of play when they're not supposed to and the ball hits them, unlike what I know about rugby). I would guess that a ball bouncing off a referee and into the goal doesn't count as a goal, but I'm not sure about that one.

Cricket: umpires can accidentally impede players and play continues, but a ball hitting an umpire (whether thrown or batted) is a dead ball. No more runs can be scored at that point, and if the umpire somehow got in the way of a ball thrown at the wicket for a potential run out, too bad. A batted ball that was obviously headed for a boundary before it hit the umpire? Sucks for the batsman, but too bad.

Those are the ones I can think of, at least.

I reffed Touch Rugby, closer to Rugby League than crappy Rugby Getting mowed down because your positioning is poor is good teacher to position yourself better next time. Thankfully I've never been in bad enough position to get his by the ball.

 

[Auston Marlander]

It would be interesting to know the specifics of how various sports handle officials getting in the way of play, whether getting run into by players or the object of play hitting them. I know some of them from memory, but not necessarily all the exact details except for hockey.

Hockey: part of the game. Pucks hitting them are in play no matter what happens, except that if a puck deflects off an official and directly into the net, it doesn't count. The boards count for making it no longer "directly" in case the very odd and unlikely circumstance were to ever happen that a puck hits an official, then bounces off the boards and into the net.

Baseball/softball: somewhat part of the game. They're all in foul territory except for the second base umpire, but if they accidentally impede a base runner, too bad. A thrown ball bouncing off an umpire, I think, is simply unfortunate but play continues. A batted fair ball is a dead ball, and I believe in that case that the crew chief can award bases or outs based on their judgment of how the play would have unfolded had it not hit them. Not sure what happens if a batted foul ball hits an umpire; that would be an extremely rare occurrence, but I'm sure there's some rule that covers it.

Football: part of the game, more or less at least I think. Players run into officials somewhat uncommonly since most of them are not in bounds during play. Not really sure what happens if the ball hits them. My guess would be that if a live ball hits them that play continues, unless it's a forward pass, in which case the play would be blown dead and the pass ruled incomplete.

Basketball: completely in play as far as I know, though they're almost always out of bounds in the first place. I have, however, seen an errant ball bounce off an official while he was in bounds, play continued, and the team that got the ball off him immediately made a basket. The announcers joked that it was the referee's first NBA assist. A ball bouncing off an official and into the basket is next to impossible, but I have no clue what the ruling would be if that happened.

Rugby: half and half, kind of. The referee is almost always within the field of play, and if they impede a player in some way, well, too bad for them. If the ball hits the referee, play is immediately blown dead and restarted with a scrum with the put-in given to the team last in possession. The touch judges are out of play, and supposed to remain outside the field of play. On the off chance one of them wanders inside the field of play and the ball hits them, it's treated as if the ball went into touch. I know that one because I played rugby, and in amateur rugby it's often the case that only a paid referee is assigned to the game, and each team provides one of their reserves as a touch judge. The touch judge that found themselves in the field of play and hit by the ball was me, and I felt pretty stupid for it.

Australian football: 100% in play. Players impeded by an umpire are out of luck and a ball hitting an umpire in the field of play happens sometimes and play continues. The only caveat that I think I know of (I'm reasonably sure of it but not 100% sure) is that if a ball bounces off an umpire and through the inner goal posts, it's given as a behind (1 point) instead of a goal (6 points).

Soccer: the referee is in play, and the assistants should be out of play at all times (not sure what happens on the off chance one wanders into the field of play when they're not supposed to and the ball hits them, unlike what I know about rugby). I would guess that a ball bouncing off a referee and into the goal doesn't count as a goal, but I'm not sure about that one.

Cricket: umpires can accidentally impede players and play continues, but a ball hitting an umpire (whether thrown or batted) is a dead ball. No more runs can be scored at that point, and if the umpire somehow got in the way of a ball thrown at the wicket for a potential run out, too bad. A batted ball that was obviously headed for a boundary before it hit the umpire? Sucks for the batsman, but too bad.

Those are the ones I can think of, at least.

But you see, this helped Toronto, so we need a rule change.

 

[Divine]

Refs in a nutshell. Carlo is tripped causing him to trip an Avalanche player and he’s called on the only penalty. Avs scored their only goal on that PP.

If the refs didn’t interfere with the game it would have ended 1-0 Toronto. The right team won in the end.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Refs suck, what else is new. It happens regularly.

To their defense I imagine it's really damn difficult especially now that the speed of the game has increased.

 

[D Wakaluk]

Soccer: the referee is in play, and the assistants should be out of play at all times (not sure what happens on the off chance one wanders into the field of play when they're not supposed to and the ball hits them, unlike what I know about rugby). I would guess that a ball bouncing off a referee and into the goal doesn't count as a goal, but I'm not sure about that one.

The Ref can decide to blow the whistle and stop play if the ball hits him. There's no reason not to have something like that in hockey.

 

[sbhnur]

The ref has more points now than Laughton.

 

[1865]

In football, if the ball hits the referee then play is blown dead and possession is given to the possessing team. Seems a simple solution to a rare problem.

 

[hangman005]

But you see, this helped Toronto, so we need a rule change.

The ref should get the chair

 

[Summer Rose]

The Ref can decide to blow the whistle and stop play if the ball hits him. There's no reason not to have something like that in hockey.

I have mixed feelings on whether I'd want to see a rule like that implemented. I absolutely do not want to see it implemented that a puck hitting an official is automatically dead, because there are plenty of times where the puck touches one and it doesn't really affect much. However, while the idea of having a rule where an official can stop play if the puck hits him and it significantly affects the play is a noble one, that also opens the can of worms that you may have to leave it as a judgment call by the officials. There are very obvious cases where it does, such as the one this thread is about, but there are also a lot of cases where you can easily present valid cases in both directions. You'd either have to write an extremely convoluted (and therefore confusing) rule to cover every possibility that the rule writers can think of, or leave the judgment up to the official's call. I'm not necessarily a fan of the idea of giving more subjective judgment calls to the officials. They already have a lot of them, and their judgment often has a profound impact on games, up to and including occasionally having to make a judgment call that directly results in one team winning the game.