Red Wings Sign Drew Miller to One-Year Extension

[Squirrel in the Hole]

Even Brad Stuart has been struggling in the league. Isn't he being bought out?

Yep, there's your defensive pick-up for this year. "He has good chemistry with Kronner"

 

[Boomhower]

I always liked Miller's game and found him to be underrated.
But with the injury last year and the fact he isn't getting any younger.... might have been the time to let him go now.

Also I mentioned in the UFA thread.... I like the idea of going after a higher motor younger player to take his role. Like a Smith-Pelley or Connolley

 

[Fugu]

I think Miller numbers affect to RFA numbers and they will affect for LTIR maximum usage numbers.

You need to get math right.

Explain please. What RFA numbers and what LTIR max usage?

There's no reason -- AGAIN -- to not fill out the roster with your RFAs and bring in new UFAs that really improve the team. Tell Miller you'll see where you're at after the busy season is over.

Registering isn't really a prerequisite for reading.

Wait or not, it's a contract that can happily live in the AHL, or as the 12th-14th forward in the NHL, without impacting anything else the team might want to do. I'm not sure why Drew Miller's contract merited more than 1 or 2 'meh, whatever' type of replies.

Though, I guess if we exclude the whines about Abbie et al, then maybe that's all it really got.

If it's that immaterial and unimportant, why execute it now?

I always liked Miller's game and found him to be underrated.
But with the injury last year and the fact he isn't getting any younger.... might have been the time to let him go now.

Also I mentioned in the UFA thread.... I like the idea of going after a higher motor younger player to take his role. Like a Smith-Pelley or Connolley

Yes, and why I asked the question about timing. Holland is potentially letting Quincey and Helm leave, for example, has some UFAs and RFAs to sign, but he found time to execute an irrelevant contract for a guy who probably has had his best seasons by now.

I honestly don't get Holland's idea of loyalty. The seven contracts we've been discussing here as well, maybe only Zetterberg's and Kronwall's are defensible. I always thought he gave too much to keep Franzen, while letting frickin' Hossa go.... to keep Hudler and Flip? You guys know my opinions on the defensive signings back in those days. Ericsson is just a disaster of a player and a contract.

Howard, at least, was somewhat defensible back when he executed it, but even so, Jimmy never really proved he was one of the NHL's elite. He's somewhere in the middle with starting goalie salaries, but he got a six year term, with an NMC/NTC combination:

NMC (through 2014-15); NTC (2015-16 through 2017-18; player can supply 10-team no-trade list)
Source: CapGeek

Even if you think the pay is okay, the term is on the long side, where he'll be 35 before he's done, and he can limit the team's options if they wish to trade him.

--> Wings mods: maybe we should have a thread on the "Bad Contracts" and Holland's loyalty over the past 6-8 years? Will keep me from derailing.

 

[Squirrel in the Hole]

I don't have any problem with it as a one year deal. My only small concern is he brings back the Dan Cleary ceremonial spot where he is contnually signed to new contracts depsite not being able to skate or play hockey.

I am willing to accept last year as bad luck. If this ends up being another year where he can't play hockey it's time to move on.

I was just thinking that: Miller is the new Cleary

 

[njx9]

If it's that immaterial and unimportant, why execute it now?

Because it was easy, and didn't involve a tedious amount of back and forth? If Holland offered a contract he thought was fair, and that won't, in any way, shape or form, hurt the team going into UFA, and Miller decided he liked it and signed it, what does it matter if it was now, next week, or in September?

If the only complaint is based on timing, then clearly there was no actual complaint beyond the standard kvetching about anything and everything that Holland does. Speaking of tedious.

 

[Winger98]

Because it was easy, and didn't involve a tedious amount of back and forth? If Holland offered a contract he thought was fair, and that won't, in any way, shape or form, hurt the team going into UFA, and Miller decided he liked it and signed it, what does it matter if it was now, next week, or in September?

If the only complaint is based on timing, then clearly there was no actual complaint beyond the standard kvetching about anything and everything that Holland does. Speaking of tedious.

I think part of the problem is that the Wings have shown an inability to move on from vets if they are an option out of camp. Cleary was finally sent down last year, at least a year too late, and it was like an episode of divorce court.

If we could have faith in the wings coming to camp, seeing Miller outplayed by two or three kids, and sending him to GR to start the year because of it, I don't think there's as much worry about signing him to this deal. It's not something the Wings have earned much trust on, though.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Yeah. But just because you pay somebody to do it doesn't mean they can do it

Of course, which is why I said he's overpaid by 500k-1mil.

I'm just pointing out a little bit of context here for the people who say he's not worth 1/10th of his contract, he's 'literally abysmal', etc. That stuff is silly. Ericsson's a mediocre 4-5, started his deal as a strong 4 and has slipped down to being a poor 4/decent 5. I imagine if he plays out his deal he'll end up being a mediocre 5.

Should I call Howard the stater?

He'd certainly like it if you did.

 

[jaster]

Good signing, happy to have him back. Great PK specialist, valued leader, a 4th-line cornerstone. Can't see a downside to this signing.

 

[Fugu]

Because it was easy, and didn't involve a tedious amount of back and forth? If Holland offered a contract he thought was fair, and that won't, in any way, shape or form, hurt the team going into UFA, and Miller decided he liked it and signed it, what does it matter if it was now, next week, or in September?

If the only complaint is based on timing, then clearly there was no actual complaint beyond the standard kvetching about anything and everything that Holland does. Speaking of tedious.

I think part of the problem is that the Wings have shown an inability to move on from vets if they are an option out of camp. Cleary was finally sent down last year, at least a year too late, and it was like an episode of divorce court.

If we could have faith in the wings coming to camp, seeing Miller outplayed by two or three kids, and sending him to GR to start the year because of it, I don't think there's as much worry about signing him to this deal. It's not something the Wings have earned much trust on, though.

Exactly, Winger. We've been around this block a few times.



A jaster sighting....

 

[jaster]

There are no kids who will outplay Miller for the role he's going to play on this team. So you guys can shelve your fear over the potential for that frustration

 

[HockeyinHD]

I think part of the problem is that the Wings have shown an inability to move on from vets if they are an option out of camp.

I think this is being approached a bit too broadly. For instance, the team had little problem bringing Larkin up early and keeping him up. The team had little problem bringing Kronwall up after very limited AHL time. Fil too. Ericsson came up early and stayed up.

My impression of Detroit's historical approach to their roster is that they are willing to gamble on youth in specific, isolated roles... but not on roles that require more cohesion, not on youth that doesn't demonstrate a significant potential for upgrade, and never to a degree that threatens team makeup.

Also, they've always seemed to like to have options for filling those depth roles. By retaining Miller they have a guy who has done fairly well in that job before, but if he struggles they also have kids in the system to fall back on.

As far as the potential to upgrade Miller's spot on the roster from within, if there was a guy who was doing what Miller does at the NHL level in the AHL that well, we'd likely have heard about him by now. That's not to say Miller is unassailable at what he does, but the only argument here is 'maybe kid x would be as good or perhaps marginally better for a cap savings of .5%'.

I just don't think the numbers play out well against the risk/reward, which is almost so faint as to be pointless to discuss int he first place.

 

[Fugu]

There are no kids who will outplay Miller for the role he's going to play on this team. So you guys can shelve your fear over the potential for that frustration

I like Miller. Just not sure about Holland's timing and approach at times, so I still feel like Winger summarized it best in the post above.

 

[njx9]

I think part of the problem is that the Wings have shown an inability to move on from vets if they are an option out of camp. Cleary was finally sent down last year, at least a year too late, and it was like an episode of divorce court.

If we could have faith in the wings coming to camp, seeing Miller outplayed by two or three kids, and sending him to GR to start the year because of it, I don't think there's as much worry about signing him to this deal. It's not something the Wings have earned much trust on, though.

Eh, I think there's a big difference between Miller on the 4th line and Cleary on the 2nd or 3rd line. Miller is the guy who's really on the ice to dive in front of shots, and chew up physical PK time. I'm not sure there are any prospects in our system, who are ready for the NHL, who should be in that role.

I mean, everyone complains about guys like Jurco and Pulk not being put into the right roles, but it's not Drew Miller who's keeping them off top lines. It's "Drew Miller" (Or Tangradi, or whoever) who's keeping them out of what should be low ice time, high pain roles that aren't going to do much for their development anyways.

I get wanting Callahan or Tangradi to take that role, and having Miller push down to GR, and that's fine; Miller's contract can be completely buried (MOD). But wanting him gone because you think it makes room for Mantha or Svechnikov or whatever is silly. And I think Bert has potential to be more than a 4th line grinder, so I'd generally disagree that his 'spot' is being taken here, either.

I dunno, it's a lot of sound and fury about a bottom of the lineup forward, who should be getting 8 minutes of ice time a night. If he gets more, the problem isn't on Holland, and it's certainly not alleviated by plugging in some other replacement level forward on a similar contract. And, after most Wings fans spent the end of the year upset about AA's ~8min/night, it's pretty clear that's not the kind of ice time we want any of our kids to get, anyways.

 

[Frk It]

Yeah, this is literally the least of my worries right now.

 

[jaster]

I like Miller. Just not sure about Holland's timing and approach at times, so I still feel like Winger summarized it best in the post above.

Fair enough. There's plenty to be critical about regarding Holland. For me, this is just not one of those things. I see Miller as a no-brainer signing at this juncture.

 

[Syckle78]

Good signing, happy to have him back. Great PK specialist, valued leader, a 4th-line cornerstone. Can't see a downside to this signing.

There isn't any. At worst this signing is irrelevant.

 

[Mijatovic]

There are no kids who will outplay Miller for the role he's going to play on this team. So you guys can shelve your fear over the potential for that frustration

Playing 13 minutes a night(10 minutes at EVS), scoring 2 points in 28 games, giving a massive 0.07 PPG and contributing 40 odd hits. His SH stats arent exactly stellar either.

He was totally replacable by almost anyone. I would actually rather a young player in that spot because speed and determination can make up for Millers "veteran" experience.

 

[Henkka]

Playing 13 minutes a night(10 minutes at EVS), scoring 2 points in 28 games, giving a massive 0.07 PPG and contributing 40 odd hits. His SH stats arent exactly stellar either.

He was totally replacable by almost anyone. I would actually rather a young player in that spot because speed and determination can make up for Millers "veteran" experience.

What does that speed and determination help at the press box?

Miller's job is to transfer his knowledge for our PK kids. That's why he was signed, that's what vets do. That's a Red Wings development plan, make kids better. Vets are partial player-coaches. Edmonton Oilers latest plan has been educating stupid young players without veteran presence. We have seen the results.

Miller can also play with decent and mistake-free level when some people are injured.

 

[Mijatovic]

If hes signed as the 14th forward, then so be it. If hes signed as the 12th forward, we have better options.

Its nitpicking complaining about 4th line/scratched forwards but seriously, we need to get better across the board.

Just did some research and it said that a reasonable mid level 4th line forward should be able to produce 0.83 P/60. Miller is at 0.33. I know hes not meant to be relied on for his offensive gain but his defence isnt amazing, its okay for an aging slow no hitting 4th liner. The best you can say is he is a thinker and gets in the right position.

 

[Winger98]

I think this is being approached a bit too broadly. For instance, the team had little problem bringing Larkin up early and keeping him up. The team had little problem bringing Kronwall up after very limited AHL time. Fil too. Ericsson came up early and stayed up.

My impression of Detroit's historical approach to their roster is that they are willing to gamble on youth in specific, isolated roles... but not on roles that require more cohesion, not on youth that doesn't demonstrate a significant potential for upgrade, and never to a degree that threatens team makeup.

Also, they've always seemed to like to have options for filling those depth roles. By retaining Miller they have a guy who has done fairly well in that job before, but if he struggles they also have kids in the system to fall back on.

As far as the potential to upgrade Miller's spot on the roster from within, if there was a guy who was doing what Miller does at the NHL level in the AHL that well, we'd likely have heard about him by now. That's not to say Miller is unassailable at what he does, but the only argument here is 'maybe kid x would be as good or perhaps marginally better for a cap savings of .5%'.

I just don't think the numbers play out well against the risk/reward, which is almost so faint as to be pointless to discuss int he first place.

I'll give you Flip and Kronwall, though both were 10 years ago now. Ericsson was 25 when he made the jump, I don't remember if he had options left, but he's not in the same boat as Larkin, et al.

I'm curious what you see Miller's role as exactly. If we're looking back over Detroit's run, when they were great it wasn't depth players eating up special team's play. It was Yzerman, Fedorov, Zetterberg, and Datsyuk that routinely went over the boards for our forwards. That didn't change until Z&D got too old, and we drifted over to sending guys like Miller out there. Of course, since we've been sending Miller out as a primarily PKer, our PK has generally been in the 12-15 range, too. Not horrible, but not exactly something you treasure.

Which is why I think you have the order of redundancy backwards. The kids shouldn't be there to pick up for when/if Miller falters. Miller and this team have not been good enough to warrant that pecking order. The priority should be playing the kids and seeing what they can do. And if they can't handle it, well, we have a grey beard we can call up from GR at that point.

Even if you don't want to put a kid into that fourth line spot, I'd still rather see us make a run for a guy like Matt Martin for that spot and shift the makeup of that line a bit. Miller or someone comparable probably wouldn't be a hard find at any point in the summer. This isn't a club that is without need of a shakeup, but outside of catching lightening in a bottle, Holland is telegraphing a desire to keep a lot of the old gang around. Again.

Eh, I think there's a big difference between Miller on the 4th line and Cleary on the 2nd or 3rd line. Miller is the guy who's really on the ice to dive in front of shots, and chew up physical PK time. I'm not sure there are any prospects in our system, who are ready for the NHL, who should be in that role.

I mean, everyone complains about guys like Jurco and Pulk not being put into the right roles, but it's not Drew Miller who's keeping them off top lines. It's "Drew Miller" (Or Tangradi, or whoever) who's keeping them out of what should be low ice time, high pain roles that aren't going to do much for their development anyways.

I get wanting Callahan or Tangradi to take that role, and having Miller push down to GR, and that's fine; Miller's contract can be completely buried (MOD). But wanting him gone because you think it makes room for Mantha or Svechnikov or whatever is silly. And I think Bert has potential to be more than a 4th line grinder, so I'd generally disagree that his 'spot' is being taken here, either.

I dunno, it's a lot of sound and fury about a bottom of the lineup forward, who should be getting 8 minutes of ice time a night. If he gets more, the problem isn't on Holland, and it's certainly not alleviated by plugging in some other replacement level forward on a similar contract. And, after most Wings fans spent the end of the year upset about AA's ~8min/night, it's pretty clear that's not the kind of ice time we want any of our kids to get, anyways.

I hate that we've come to believe that our top players can't work the PK. Yzerman and Fedorov did it routinely in the regular season in the 90s. Zetterberg was a PK monster, and Datsyuk held down his fair share of minutes. I don't think it's a coincidence that our PK has slipped when we started relying more heabvily on our fourth liner/specialists to carry that play.

It's not entirely about the specific players who would or wouldn't take Miller's spot, though. It's about the mentality and the approach the Wings continue to take. This team is not something management should be afraid to tinker with and change, but signing Miller and continuing to court Helm points more towards the status quo than anything.

 

[Mijatovic]

Personally would want our top line offensive players fresh and the bottom liners running the PK if only for the potential mismatches when PK is over.

 

[HockeyinHD]

I'm curious what you see Miller's role as exactly.

He's like the veteran version of Glendening, just on a wing. ~10 minutes total, 2+ on the PK.

If we're looking back over Detroit's run, when they were great it wasn't depth players eating up special team's play. It was Yzerman, Fedorov, Zetterberg, and Datsyuk that routinely went over the boards for our forwards. That didn't change until Z&D got too old, and we drifted over to sending guys like Miller out there. Of course, since we've been sending Miller out as a primarily PKer, our PK has generally been in the 12-15 range, too. Not horrible, but not exactly something you treasure.

Well, to be fair lots of things were better when Lidstrom and Chelios were PKing 5+ a night.

I'd have to check, but hasn't the whole NHL sort of gone away from offensive stars PKing? I think teams may send their stars over the boards for maybe 1:30 at max of targeted PK time (near the end of the kill to chance a breakout on the expiration). Those Yzerman/Fedorov days where they were in the top 3 of forward PK time seem gone.

Which is why I think you have the order of redundancy backwards. The kids shouldn't be there to pick up for when/if Miller falters. Miller and this team have not been good enough to warrant that pecking order. The priority should be playing the kids and seeing what they can do.

Well, that's the eternal divide I stare across at you other posters. The NHL is not a 'see what you can do' league. It's a 'earn your way into it' league. You 'see what the guys can do' by watching them in practice, in the AHL, in international play, et cetera.

Now granted, we don't get to do that for the most part, so a big part of the baked in pro-youth bias here is the relative unknown potential of those kids. Unknown to us that is, not the Wings. They've already seen those kids play. That's why the argument when a Wings prospect leaves the team and fails is that 'the team ruined his development' and not 'he wasn't any good in the first place'. Believing the latter would require giving the organization too much credit for assessing player acumen.

Also, the reason it's vet first on the contract order is that you'd expose a series of prospects to waivers a year early just to check and see if they were any good. Seems wasteful.

This team is not something management should be afraid to tinker with and change, but signing Miller and continuing to court Helm points more towards the status quo than anything.

Datsyuk, Quincey, Richards, Kindl, and Andersson are all off last year's roster. Possibly (probably?) Helm as well, so we're maybe talking 6 of 22/23 spots turning over.

This is mostly just the 'burn it down' or 'stay the course' argument, though. There are a ton of exit ramps between those two points, but I don't get the impression very many people here choose one of those nuanced destinations.

 

[Mijatovic]

Now granted, we don't get to do that for the most part, so a big part of the baked in pro-youth bias here is the relative unknown potential of those kids. Unknown to us that is, not the Wings. They've already seen those kids play.

Like Janmark, Jarnkrok, and Ferraro really struggling at their respective teams now? Like 0.07PPG bad? I am happy with the direction the team is taking but there are still more options and I dont neccessarily want Miller playing. I would rather he be backup depth for 4th line roles and thats it.

 

[Winger98]

parsing is the fallback of weak arguments

He's like the veteran version of Glendening, just on a wing. ~10 minutes total, 2+ on the PK.

Well, to be fair lots of things were better when Lidstrom and Chelios were PKing 5+ a night.

I'd have to check, but hasn't the whole NHL sort of gone away from offensive stars PKing? I think teams may send their stars over the boards for maybe 1:30 at max of targeted PK time (near the end of the kill to chance a breakout on the expiration). Those Yzerman/Fedorov days where they were in the top 3 of forward PK time seem gone.

Well, that's the eternal divide I stare across at you other posters. The NHL is not a 'see what you can do' league. It's a 'earn your way into it' league. You 'see what the guys can do' by watching them in practice, in the AHL, in international play, et cetera.

Now granted, we don't get to do that for the most part, so a big part of the baked in pro-youth bias here is the relative unknown potential of those kids. Unknown to us that is, not the Wings. They've already seen those kids play. That's why the argument when a Wings prospect leaves the team and fails is that 'the team ruined his development' and not 'he wasn't any good in the first place'. Believing the latter would require giving the organization too much credit for assessing player acumen.

Also, the reason it's vet first on the contract order is that you'd expose a series of prospects to waivers a year early just to check and see if they were any good. Seems wasteful.


Datsyuk, Quincey, Richards, Kindl, and Andersson are all off last year's roster. Possibly (probably?) Helm as well, so we're maybe talking 6 of 22/23 spots turning over.

This is mostly just the 'burn it down' or 'stay the course' argument, though. There are a ton of exit ramps between those two points, but I don't get the impression very many people here choose one of those nuanced destinations.

Miller is just like Glendening except he's less physical, less productive offensively, plays far fewer minutes, and can't take draws. Other than that, yes, mirror images.

For the offensive star thing, I think you'd have to define offensive star. I mean, guys like Kopitar and Bergeron routinely take good chunks of PK time for their teams, but are they offensive stars? They are guys their teams rely on to play their big minutes and produce, but they aren't going to be winning any scoring titles, either.

And you're padding your roster turnover numbers. Kindl and Andersson were barely on the team last year, while Quincey barely broke the half season mark. Richards took the vet signing spot that Holland seems to use every year to bring in some new blood. The only significant change would be Datsyuk and possibly Helm. You may as well add Franzen to your list of guys who are being changed over since he played a game last year.

Then again, you apparently see dumping Miller a burning the place down.

 

[Winger98]

Like Janmark, Jarnkrok, and Ferraro really struggling at their respective teams now? Like 0.07PPG bad? I am happy with the direction the team is taking but there are still more options and I dont neccessarily want Miller playing. I would rather he be backup depth for 4th line roles and thats it.

Or Nestrasil, who quietly had a similarly productive (and injury hampered) year with Carolina as the he had after we dealt him there. It should also be pointed out that the main reason guys like Sheahan, Nyquist, and Tatar have the amount of experience they have is because a bunch of injuries forced us to play them when we did, and we saw what they could do. At the time of the callup, no one was sure Sheahan could do anything but fillout a Tinky Winky costume.