Red Wings Sign Drew Miller to One-Year Extension

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I think this is a good deal. If he plays well, you keep him. But if he sucks, you can bury him and it doesn't really hurt you at all. And he can go lead the kids in GR.

 

[Henkka]

5.5, 5, 5, 4.75, 3.5, 3, 3.

Not 100% sure Abby will play out the entirety of that deal. Those last two years look like a bit of cap hit massage.

Then trade him Arizona or whoever is in financial problems.

It was that easy with Dastyuk, it was easy with Bickell.

I don't mean you but others... people just just stop freaking out these things. Abdelakder is a great player and lets enjoy about his prime years now. Worry those late years later. Cap will go up, relative caphit will go down and so on.

Same whining every year about different contracts. Now Miller is the wrong bench veteran who is tutoring kids.

Few hears ago it was Franzen and now it isn't any kind of problem to us. LTIR-non-factor.

 

[Frk It]

Then trade him Arizona or whoever is in financial problems.

It was that easy with Dastyuk, it was easy with Bickell.

People just just stop freaking out these things. Abdelakder is a great player and lets enjoy about his prime years now. Worry those late years later. Cap will go up, relative caphit will go down and so on.

Same whining every year about different contracts.

It was easy with Bickell?

They had to give up Teravainen who is a hell of a player.

We had to give up a pretty good draft position with Datsyuk.

This stuff has a cost.

 

[Henkka]

It was easy with Bickell?

They had to give up Teravainen who is a hell of a player.

We had to give up a pretty good draft position with Datsyuk.

This stuff has a cost.

Chicago also got two draft picks. It wasn't just losing struggling Teuvo. There has been some negative rumors against Teuvo here in Finland, I'm not so sure Hawks lost anything significant.

Still, it was another proof there are ways to get worst of the worst contracts fixed. Even Clarkson was traded. You just need the power of unlimited money like Red Wings do and takers are there.

 

[Ezekial]

They lost TT because Bickell costs actual money.

The other teams were trying to play hard ball with KH and he waited until he had an advantageous position, because he knew Arizona (among other teams) wouldn't have anything to lose if they gained his contract.

 

[Fugu]

no one on the team has a NMC.

Okay, be a nitpicker, so I guess you're right. Datsyuk had one, and he's gone now. Howard had one for his earlier years on this contract, and not it's some kind of NTC. There are some other NTCs.

Who on this team actually deserves an NTC and/or an NMC?

Yeah I mean I am not thrilled about the Abs K either but at the end of the day he would probably have gotten at least something similar elsewhere if it came down to it. He brings some sandpaper to a soft roster and though his cap hit is a little high he is hardly the biggest contract concern that I have with this team.

The Kronner and Zetterberg contracts are pretty rough too, but it is understandable considering that it wasn't long ago that they were both impact players. Impact players demand term and $$ so it is not too surprising that they got longer deals than they should have and we are in the situation we are now where they kind of suck and they still getting paid pretty significant dollars.

The Ericcson and Howard contracts are the ones I really don't like. Howard isn't moving like ever at that cap hit and we can only hope that someone in Vegas is a Jimmy Howard fan lol. Ericcson was never good, and definitely should not have been paid like he was a top four. That is one I just do not get. Our history with big, slow, soft defensemen is truly pitiful.

Uwe Krupp, Dmitri Bykov, Maxim Kuznetsov, Andreas Lilja... and Jonathan Ericcson.... its like the same #@$*!$#( player over and over again lol. And please add some to the list that I have left out... I know there is more!

There have been more "rough" contracts in recent years than good ones, unfortunately.

Now... do you truly believe Abs could have gotten a 7-yr term somewhere in the NHL had he left the Wings? I think there's no way in hell. He's a 20G, 40+ pt guy-- if he has a great center.

I don't think it's exactly fair to spend two or three years (accurately) pointing out how much Z has declined as so many of us have and then to use how much coattailing Z provides to players on his line. I don't think Z has done anything for Abdelkader the past two years beyond being a mediocre top line linemate.

I don't think I've really been down on Z, but sure, he has declined in terms of production. He's still a very good leader and captain, so if anyone gets a pass due to prior achievements and intangibles, he's one of them. There aren't too many names after his, and one of those guys just left. (Which still has me wondering what the **** happened when Dats of all people has to do something like that...)

I think it's accurate to call him someone who doesn't create, but I'm not certain that's something which should be a de facto insult. He's a thick net front guy that scores shotgun-range goals, hits, and fights a little. On a team who has not another single player who can do that and without him would get criticized for not having anyone who could do that, those traits have value.

<snip>
Sure, but there's the bird in the hand-itis of this, too. We already know Miller can be effective within the system. We've seen guys who had reputations formed on other teams come here and not be able to bring that success with them, so for a role with as small an impact on the cap as this is, sometimes it really is better safe than sorry.[/QUOTE]

Miller would still be here in late July, early August, once Holland knows if he has his elite forward and defender, and his RFAs lined up. Honestly, if he just wanted to give him insurance money, there was no rush at all whatsoever.

And if the Wings are so screwed playing the UFA market that they have to hand out a 7 yr contract to the likes of Abdelkader, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe they still believe that people buy tickets because of all the guys from Michigan there, and not due to guys like Datsyuk, Z or Lidas when he was still around.

 

[Fugu]

Then trade him Arizona or whoever is in financial problems.

It was that easy with Dastyuk, it was easy with Bickell.

I don't mean you but others... people just just stop freaking out these things. Abdelakder is a great player and lets enjoy about his prime years now. Worry those late years later. Cap will go up, relative caphit will go down and so on.

Same whining every year about different contracts. Now Miller is the wrong bench veteran who is tutoring kids.

Few hears ago it was Franzen and now it isn't any kind of problem to us. LTIR-non-factor.

Henkka, do you honestly believe Abdelkader is a great player?

What has he done that's great?

 

[Henkka]

Henkka, do you honestly believe Abdelkader is a great player?

What has he done that's great?

If corner battles, physicality and effective netfront presence aren't anything great, then I can't help you.

Maybe we should just fill the roster with twelve Jiri Hudlers and enjoy.

Oh I forgot, great player RELATIVE TO HIS CAPHIT.

Relatively great. Not 10 million player great.

And movable contract, because last years are with cheaper salary/higher caphit. There will be takers, if it becomes a problem. It's not a concern now.

 

[Bench]

Henkka, do you honestly believe Abdelkader is a great player?

What has he done that's great?

The best argument you'll get is he's unique to the Wings in his willingness to muck it up around the net. While I generally agree, 7 years remains insane. Most of us wanted something like 4x4.

 

[Fugu]

If corner battles, physicality and effective netfront presence aren't anything great, then I can't help you.

Maybe we should just fill the roster with twelve Jiri Hudlers and enjoy.

Oh I forgot, great player RELATIVE TO HIS CAPHIT.

Relatively great. Not 10 million player great.

And movable contract, because last years are with cheaper salary/higher caphit. There will be takers, if it becomes a problem. It's not a concern now.

That last part is just a nice hypothetical. I can't remember the last time Holland traded someone who'd put in those tough, grinder years and THEN he dumped him for the cap space. So, sure, somewhere else, that would work but not with Holland at the helm. (ha ha)

I don't mind have a few muckers and grinders, but they're usually third line guys. Abby can fulfill that role for a few years, but I think it would have been more prudent to go 4-5 yrs, versus all out type deal.

Don't get me wrong. I like him as a player and personality, but I think Holland clearly overvalued him.

The best argument you'll get is he's unique to the Wings in his willingness to muck it up around the net. While I generally agree, 7 years remains insane. Most of us wanted something like 4x4.

Babs always wanted a couple of those guys up top because he liked that dump/chase grinder kind of hockey. I never have, and maybe the reason I've been quiet and somewhat tuned out for the last couple of years is that I became bored out of my mind with the team's play. The best part of this most recent season was seeing what some of the younger guys were doing.

 

[BinCookin]

The best argument you'll get is he's unique to the Wings in his willingness to muck it up around the net. While I generally agree, 7 years remains insane. Most of us wanted something like 4x4.

I honestly think on this team Abdelkader had leverage for 4.75-5.25 Million per year. Maybe even 5.5. I know you all say "BS he did", well I think our team of perimeter tiny forwards DID infact need Him or "someone like him" and 5M was going to be the cost PER YEAR.

I think 7 years was dumb. No one thinks 7 years was good. There is no one saying 7 years was good.

Holland's mistake here is thinking 7 years doesnt matter as much as 5.25 vs 4.25 Cap hit. I think he did the same with Ericsson.

These are great for CAP #'s now. But extremely risky vs time.

I think we are all upset about the future risks. But this is a great deal for the next 3-4 years. And its a horrible deal for the last 3 most likely.

Bottom line is we did need Abdelkader's style of play. (Drafting Bertuzzi, Smith.. and trading for Sadowy i think is evidence that Detroit was over a barrel with Abby, and they don't want that to happen again.)

(We are drafting larger guys, Larkin, Mantha, Svechnikov). To try and fix these problems.

I think continuing to complain about the contract is a waste of time. Because no one is arguing it is "good"... its livable for now. Ericsson got injured and sucks now... so that looks like a total train wreck. Also makes Abby's risk seem higher.

Whatever, lets move on. We have much more important things to worry about. We can always expose Abby to the Expansion draft if we want him gone that badly. (but we wont).

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Lol he's only going to get more injured from here on out. Now on to helm


Wasn't the pk better when he was injured?

 

[Bench]

I honestly think on this team Abdelkader had leverage for 4.75-5.25 Million per year. Maybe even 5.5. I know you all say "BS he did", well I think our team of perimeter tiny forwards DID infact need Him or "someone like him" and 5M was going to be the cost PER YEAR.

I think 7 years was dumb. No one thinks 7 years was good. There is no one saying 7 years was good.

Holland's mistake here is thinking 7 years doesnt matter as much as 5.25 vs 4.25 Cap hit. I think he did the same with Ericsson.

These are great for CAP #'s now. But extremely risky vs time.

I think we are all upset about the future risks. But this is a great deal for the next 3-4 years. And its a horrible deal for the last 3 most likely.

Bottom line is we did need Abdelkader's style of play. (Drafting Bertuzzi, Smith.. and trading for Sadowy i think is evidence that Detroit was over a barrel with Abby, and they don't want that to happen again.)

(We are drafting larger guys, Larkin, Mantha, Svechnikov). To try and fix these problems.

I think continuing to complain about the contract is a waste of time. Because no one is arguing it is "good"... its livable for now. Ericsson got injured and sucks now... so that looks like a total train wreck. Also makes Abby's risk seem higher.

Whatever, lets move on. We have much more important things to worry about. We can always expose Abby to the Expansion draft if we want him gone that badly. (but we wont).

This is all very fair. I'm not in any disagreement. The cap hits Holland has signed have always been in line with league averages and generally good to fair, but as you point out, length seems to kill them. Ericsson and Howard are great examples. The start of their deals were right in line with what you'd expect, but as their usefulness has declined, these final years, even if the cap hit isn't terrible, ends up feeling like a total waste.

To bring this full circle, Holland is painfully loyal. And Miller coming back fits into that narrative. Fortunately Miller's deal is inconsequential, but it's also just another in a string of signings that shows once Holland finds a guy he likes, he's going to keep him around long as possible.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Henkka, do you honestly believe Abdelkader is a great player?

What has he done that's great?

He is a good hockey player, that actually is still improving to this point. What leads you to think he is a player of some significance... Well how about Lombardi and his brain trust immediately identifying him as a guy they want for Team USA, along with his other hockey brain trust involved there. Abdelkader is certainly not getting anything beyond the market and yes in free agency I think he would have been sought after. For instance who do you think is more valuable today and for several seasons moving forward Abdelkader or Brouwer. Brouwer has three 20 goal seasons with a career high of 43 points. Abdelkader actually plays a heavier game than him, is slightly younger and is still actually trending up as a hockey player. Laad who is no doubt better wants well over 6 million per and a rumored seven years.

The Abdelkader contract might be troubling on the back-end, it might not, hey maybe he is fine for the duration having played substantially less games as a younger guy than some of his counterparts. We shall see, but his contract isn't out of line today and his ability to demand terms would have been met by somebody on the open market more than likely. Abdelkader is an attractive asset to hockey types, its why his phone rings off the hook when Team USA can call him and why it is pretty noticeable when he is hurt in terms of how are team plays since he took big steps forward in his game.

As for the real topic at hand. I hate the Miller signing, but oh well Drew Miller is a hard worker and a good team player, I wish him the best but was really hoping we would move on from him.

 

[BinCookin]

This is all very fair. I'm not in any disagreement. The cap hits Holland has signed have always been in line with league averages and generally good to fair, but as you point out, length seems to kill them. Ericsson and Howard are great examples. The start of their deals were right in line with what you'd expect, but as their usefulness has declined, these final years, even if the cap hit isn't terrible, ends up feeling like a total waste.

To bring this full circle, Holland is painfully loyal. And Miller coming back fits into that narrative. Fortunately Miller's deal is inconsequential, but it's also just another in a string of signings that shows once Holland finds a guy he likes, he's going to keep him around long as possible.

I actually don't mind the Howard deal. He played well before he got it, and we could never have expected Mrazek to do so well at that time. 5 yrs deal, and 5 Mil i thought was fine.

But lets talk about what this thread is supposed to be about.

Miller, hes signed so cheaply it does exactly what Holland loves, provides depth at virtually no real salary risk. If someone on our AHL team wants Miller's job, they are not going to get it by default. He will have to come here and kick ass. Some of you will say "holland, veterans.... cheese" etc etc.

Lets be honest here. We want "Jurco, Pulkkinen, Mantha" to do well this year right? Well Its not Miller's Job those guys are after. So I really don't see this as a conflict to our young players. I prefer Miller over "Nosek" or "Callahan" Miller is clearly better than these guys. And makes less than last year.

Miller took a pay cut here. Thats a big deal.
Like the signing.

 

[Fugu]

This is all very fair. I'm not in any disagreement. The cap hits Holland has signed have always been in line with league averages and generally good to fair, but as you point out, length seems to kill them. Ericsson and Howard are great examples. The start of their deals were right in line with what you'd expect, but as their usefulness has declined, these final years, even if the cap hit isn't terrible, ends up feeling like a total waste.

To bring this full circle, Holland is painfully loyal. And Miller coming back fits into that narrative. Fortunately Miller's deal is inconsequential, but it's also just another in a string of signings that shows once Holland finds a guy he likes, he's going to keep him around long as possible.

I think this is the key for me as well.


The value seems to be okay in many cases but you do start wondering what it is the player has given up when you look at the annual payout and the term. A "contract" is the full package, all of it. You can't say it's a good contract, but man, those three years at the end are really bad. Then to really drive it home, Kenny throws in the No Move/No Trades in some cases, which in my view has become too many cases.

He can like whomever he wants, but he should be able to separate out the business from the personal side, and he hasn't been very good at doing that, perhaps ever, but it's most evident after Scotty's departure. This is the guy that Yzerman had to push to pay out real money to Datsyuk, but he can give out these deals to some also-rans? I don't get it sometimes.

 

[Fugu]

He is a good hockey player, that actually is still improving to this point. What leads you to think he is a player of some significance... Well how about Lombardi and his brain trust immediately identifying him as a guy they want for Team USA, along with his other hockey brain trust involved there. Abdelkader is certainly not getting anything beyond the market and yes in free agency I think he would have been sought after. For instance who do you think is more valuable today and for several seasons moving forward Abdelkader or Brouwer. Brouwer has three 20 goal seasons with a career high of 43 points. Abdelkader actually plays a heavier game than him, is slightly younger and is still actually trending up as a hockey player. Laad who is no doubt better wants well over 6 million per and a rumored seven years.

The Abdelkader contract might be troubling on the back-end, it might not, hey maybe he is fine for the duration having played substantially less games as a younger guy than some of his counterparts. We shall see, but his contract isn't out of line today and his ability to demand terms would have been met by somebody on the open market more than likely. Abdelkader is an attractive asset to hockey types, its why his phone rings off the hook when Team USA can call him and why it is pretty noticeable when he is hurt in terms of how are team plays since he took big steps forward in his game.

As for the real topic at hand. I hate the Miller signing, but oh well Drew Miller is a hard worker and a good team player, I wish him the best but was really hoping we would move on from him.

Have to disagree that he's still developing. He did that under Datsyuk's tutelage, for the most part. He's 29. That's on the old side, almost sliding down part for a forward. He's as good now as he will ever be, and I somehow doubt with Dats gone that he will be more than a 40 pt guy, at best.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I actually don't mind the Howard deal. He played well before he got it, and we could never have expected Mrazek to do so well at that time. 5 yrs deal, and 5 Mil i thought was fine.

But lets talk about what this thread is supposed to be about.

Miller, hes signed so cheaply it does exactly what Holland loves, provides depth at virtually no real salary risk. If someone on our AHL team wants Miller's job, they are not going to get it by default. He will have to come here and kick ass. Some of you will say "holland, veterans.... cheese" etc etc.

Lets be honest here. We want "Jurco, Pulkkinen, Mantha" to do well this year right? Well Its not Miller's Job those guys are after. So I really don't see this as a conflict to our young players. I prefer Miller over "Nosek" or "Callahan" Miller is clearly better than these guys. And makes less than last year.

Miller took a pay cut here. Thats a big deal.
Like the signing.

I am not sure Drew Miller with a busted knee and almost a year out of hockey is better than Nosek. Nosek is pretty good for a fourth line role. He skates better than Miller, is heavier and has better hands along with three position flexibility... I would have gone with Nosek if choosing between the two. Miller brings stuff to the PK, but this just in it hasn't been elite with him and it really didn't look much different without him either. Thought now was an appropriate time to pull the plug on his tenure in Detroit.

Oddly enough Miller himself seemed to think that was what was going to happen right before he got injured, he made some comment about how I don't know how many games left I will get here when he reached some milestone... Don't worry Drew a couple more seasons more than likely.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Have to disagree that he's still developing. He did that under Datsyuk's tutelage, for the most part. He's 29. That's on the old side, almost sliding down part for a forward. He's as good now as he will ever be, and I somehow doubt with Dats gone that he will be more than a 40 pt guy, at best.

Abdelkader has been in that net front role for a couple seasons. He has become a better passer, faster, better defensively, a better pk guy and a bigger leader in the room. That is just in the last couple years. Do I expect him to get a lot better I don't know? I am not sure this is really his zenith though, he seems to still be figuring things out to the benefit of the team.

The other thing is Justin Abdelkader never cheats you for a second in terms of energy or work. He hasn't since he was the kid they were scouting. He also has shown pretty good chemistry with some important players moving forward in terms of Larkin and Nyquist. PP time is crucial to the picture. But he is versatile guy. An incredibly useful roster piece. I too wish the deal was a couple years shorter, but probably really only to negotiate him down and sign him for a lower price cause I have a feeling I will still want him in a depth role at the end of this contract. For now it is what it is. But the useless plug version of Abdelkader needs to die, the guy is a good hockey player and worth his cap hit really next couple years below value by a touch more than likely.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

How is Ericsson's cap hit great now? He has been abysmal literally every year since his contract started.

Ericsson is barely qualified to play on the third pairing right now, but now imagine him even slower and more brain dead in two years.

Gator's contract is going to end up being equally abysmal.

One bad contract can be worked around. Multiple bad contracts can't be ignored.

 

[BinCookin]

How is Ericsson's cap hit great now? He has been abysmal literally every year since his contract started.

It's horrendous now, so imagine how it looks in two years. He is barely qualified to play on the third pairing.

Gator's contract is going to end up being equally abysmal.

One bad contract can be worked around. Multiple bad contracts can't be ignored.

We all know where YOU stand WW1987. I don't think I ever said his contract was good. I said I "THINK" Holland signed him longer term to "lower his AAV". I also said I thought that was a mistake. But we can clearly see Holland favors longer deals with cheap AAV vs shorter deals.
I was never arguing Ericsson was good, just HOLLAND's thinking on it.

 

[FlashyG]

I hope he's more the 13th forward rather than a regular at this point. It's nice to have a veteran to fill in on spot duty for injuries, but I'd rather one of the younger guys like Callahan get a look in the bottom 6 over Miller.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

We all know where YOU stand WW1987. I don't think I ever said his contract was good. I said I "THINK" Holland signed him longer term to "lower his AAV". I also said I thought that was a mistake. But we can clearly see Holland favors longer deals with cheap AAV vs shorter deals.
I was never arguing Ericsson was good, just HOLLAND's thinking on it.

Well you said those are great cap #'s right now, but right now Ericsson's play isn't worth 1/10th of his current cap hit.

Yes longer term deals to lower the cap hit, yet the Wings were still up at the cap ceiling prior to trading Datsyuk's contract, and i'm sure Holland is going to have the Wings up against the cap with or without Stamkos this summer.

I'm not seeing how either of those contracts has benefited the Wings at all.

Giving out 6/7 year contracts in the middle of November to above average players (being extremely generous) who are going to turn 30 when their respective contracts begin is indefensible.

It's literally a country club.

 

[Bench]

We all know where YOU stand WW1987. I don't think I ever said his contract was good. I said I "THINK" Holland signed him longer term to "lower his AAV". I also said I thought that was a mistake. But we can clearly see Holland favors longer deals with cheap AAV vs shorter deals.
I was never arguing Ericsson was good, just HOLLAND's thinking on it.

Ericsson's cap hit, when signed, was actually good. Not great, but good. Again, term is the killer. Same goes for Howard. And I think Abdelkader to come.

It's a running theme. The cap hits aren't bad, just too long. But Holland is big on keeping his band together. He's yet to move anybody, he's got an offer in on Helm, and Miller is coming back.

Quincey is probably finally gone, but that's after he traded to get him back and signed him to 2 more contracts. Quincey is the only decent player he's let walk since Hudler. Filppula, like Helm, was offered a deal, too.

Pretty unusual guys who are regulars don't get offers. I can only think of those 2 over the last how many years.

 

[Frk It]

Ericsson's cap hit, when signed, was actually good. Not great, but good. Again, term is the killer. Same goes for Howard. And I think Abdelkader to come.

It's a running theme. The cap hits aren't bad, just too long. But Holland is big on keeping his band together. He's yet to move anybody, he's got an offer in on Helm, and Miller is coming back.

Quincey is probably finally gone, but that's after he traded to get him back and signed him to 2 more contracts. Quincey is the only decent player he's let walk since Hudler. Filppula, like Helm, was offered a deal, too.

Pretty unusual guys who are regulars don't get offers. I can only think of those 2 over the last how many years.

Out of those 3, I don't really fault Howard that much.

The term and cap hit both seemed very fair to his peers based on his numbers at the time. And goalies a frugally seem to last longer than skaters, so 5 years didn't seem out of line to me.

Abby and Ericsson are big and physical players (E used to be). Why Holland thought they would be guys that age well and gave them super long term deals is beyond me. Specifically Ericsson, 6'4"-6'5" stay at home d men have a terrible track record with aging.