Confirmed with Link: Red Wings sign D Justin Holl 3 years, 10.2M (3.4M AAV)

[Peter Tosh]

Previous seasons, players like Lashoff, Cody Goloubef, Dan Renouf or Jake Chelios have represented the big club due injuries, so it's easy to see why SY wanted to have more D options. In a playoff hunt, a couple of Dan Renouf nights can make the difference.

One important perspectiveis how injuries are affected by competition. Players work harder in practice not to lose their spot on the roster, which leads to better conditioning overall and therefore less injuries. Even though it's hard to quantify, Holl's presence might have played a role in other D stepping up this season (which we can all agree has happened).

In a normal year, both Holl and Edvinsson would likely have played due to injuries. Now we have the luxury to be able to add Holl to a trade at TDL, and still make significant improvements.

 

[Frk It]

This is incredibly silly logic. Just because W, X, and Y were okay doesn't mean you can't complain about Z, which this thread is about. Blind loyalty is pathetic, all decisions should be allowed to be questioned.

It’s not “silly logic”, it’s just a difference in perspective.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Can you back up this logic? There were as many 50 point pacing RHD last year as there were LHD. So there's the same number of top end RHD as LHD, is it the bottom pairing where RHD struggle to fill roster spots?

The vast majority of defensemen are not on pace for 50 pts (a pretty arbitrary number). Hell, only 20 defensemen in the entire league hit 50 points last year. No one, and I mean no one expected Holl to be one of the twenty highest producing defensemen in the NHL when we signed him. The answer is simply supply and demand and an uneven distribution of them from team to team. So long as NHL coaches want the security of playing defensemen on their natural side, there will be a demand for righties simply because there are fewer of them.

 

[Hazy Little Thing]

The vast majority of defensemen are not on pace for 50 pts (a pretty arbitrary number). Hell, only 20 defensemen in the entire league hit 50 points last year. No one, and I mean no one expected Holl to be one of the twenty highest producing defensemen in the NHL when we signed him. The answer is simply supply and demand and an uneven distribution of them from team to team. So long as NHL coaches want the security of playing defensemen on their natural side, there will be a demand for righties simply because there are fewer of them.

Quantify that though, that’s what I’m asking.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Quantify that though, that’s what I’m asking.

Count the number of right handed defensemen in the NHL? Sorry, but I personally don't have time for that. Are you arguing that left handed defensemen are no less in demand than right handed defensemen? Or is your ultimate point that Holl being right handed had nothing to do with us signing him even though we immediately traded for a similar player with a similar profile six weeks later (when we were under no pressure to do so)?

 

[Hazy Little Thing]

Count the number of right handed defensemen in the NHL? Sorry, but I personally don't have time for that. Are you arguing that left handed defensemen are no less in demand than right handed defensemen? Or is your ultimate point that Holl being right handed had nothing to do with us signing him even though we immediately traded for a similar player with a similar profile six weeks later (when we were under no pressure to do so)?

My point is I’ve seen this talking point that RHD are a scarce resource (relative to LHD) and thus more valuable. But anytime there’s pushback on that notion no one will back it up with any evidence.

 

[LongTimeDRWF]

My point is I’ve seen this talking point that RHD are a scarce resource (relative to LHD) and thus more valuable. But anytime there’s pushback on that notion no one will back it up with any evidence.

For anyone with access to behind the paywall...more details at the Athletic, but if there are only 126 Right Hand shooters out of 301 active defensemen, then there is a premium for the righties

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

My point is I’ve seen this talking point that RHD are a scarce resource (relative to LHD) and thus more valuable. But anytime there’s pushback on that notion no one will back it up with any evidence.

126 of the 301 defensemen who have played in the NHL this year are right handed. This is a simple head count that does not take into account average ice time or games played. Given that right handed hockey players are typically left handed with respect to gross motor skills, and left handed people make up a decidedly smaller percentage of the overall population, I would expect right handed defensemen to be in the minority. I have no idea what percentage of UFA defensemen are actually right handed though.

Who knows, I could be totally wrong on this. If I am it is sad to see this organization chase its tail in search of right handed defensemen all of these years and we probably shouldn't feel pressured to find Ed a righty partner next year given we should have equal access to them over time.

 

[Hazy Little Thing]

View attachment 830433

For anyone with access to behind the paywall...more details at the Athletic, but if there are only 126 Right Hand shooters out of 301 active defensemen, then there is a premium for the righties

42% is pretty close to 50%. Also that’s a total number that doesn’t provide much context. Could be littered with a bunch of guys that played <5 games.

 

[LongTimeDRWF]

42% is pretty close to 50%. Also that’s a total number that doesn’t provide much context. Could be littered with a bunch of guys that played <5 games.

I throw it out there as someone may have access to the story and can provide the context, because even if each team has 7 D on their roster, that is only 224 D-men.

It would take 3 x 32 = 96 regulars for each team to have at least 3 Right shooting D-men on the roster...so yes context is needed to make sense of it, but even a 42% righties versus 58% lefties ratio overall would indicate an average team with 7 D on the roster would be 4 Left and 3 Right handed shooters.

So if there are any teams with 3 Lefties and 4 Righties, then some other team may be short a Right hand shooting D. There are few D out there that prefer to play their off side as well, but still I suspect Right Shooting D are a bit of a premium if some teams don't have any to spare come trade deadline day.

 

[saska sault]

Like most things it's likely pure speculation but Friedman mentioned on his 32 thoughts, that people had thrown the idea at him of Holl back to Toronto. I can't see it but it's fun it got mentioned by him.

 

[Gniwder]

42% is pretty close to 50%. Also that’s a total number that doesn’t provide much context. Could be littered with a bunch of guys that played <5 games.

OK, this one is easy to figure out because NHL.com allows you to sort by L/R and use # of games and position as criteria. So let's go 30 games played, here's the list:

209 defensemen have played 30+ games
89 are right handed
120 are left handed

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

But Holl and Ghost proven that a defensively inept left handed defenseman with some offensive output is better than a right handed D that's incompetent on both ends of the ice. Nobody is gonna take Holl because he's right handed, he still has to be at least the 6th best defenseman on the team.


Edit: I just tested the link and it still has the list and sort criteria. You can change the number of games if you look at the list parameters

Also, using Maatta as the cutline for scrubs with 16 min TOI, 20 LHD have played less than 16 min per game, and 18 RHD. So for defensemen with 30+ games averaging 16+ minutes, we're looking at:

171 total
71 RHD
100 LHD

Any way you cut it, there are more lefties than righties. You can export the list to Excel and do your own analysis.... and your coworkers will think you're doing actual work, lol

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I hated the signing. I hope he never comes back to earth. Keep proving me wrong!

Hi.

Healthy scratch last nine 9.HATED this signing from the moment the ink was still wet. Why did we sign this guy????

Hello.

 

[RED WINGS STOMP]

If Steve can move him, most likely at 50% retention, it will be a major success.

2 years at 1.7 isn't that bad, right? Cmon NHL GMs, you know you want him for your bottom pair.

 

[heyfolks]

Holl has less value than Zadina. He could be ambidextrous and it wouldn't matter. Right or left he just isn't NHL level talent.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Head scratcher signing. With him and Chiarot what a waste of cap space...

Love the signing. Great job. Awesome term and AAV.

Yzerman's worst move yet. Knew this was absolutely TERRIBLE July 1st just like Copp....

 

[DamonDRW]

Wow, I almost got a heart attack when I opened the forums and immediately saw that we signed Holl. The first thought was that we did it again...

 

[lilidk]

Since we get rid of Walman and possible other trades Hall has a chance to play for Red Wings.
To me coming year is a good year for tanking. So far it looks like we are in the tanking mode . What is the next Yzerman move Maatta +third for future consideration?

 

[Rolo Tomassi]

Cant we just put some of this garbage (Holl, Copp) on waivers and hope someone takes them to hit the cap floor?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Yzerman's worst move yet. Knew this was absolutely TERRIBLE July 1st just like Copp....

Wait, so there's nothing new regarding Holl, you resurrected this thread just to quote yourself and complain? Just like you did a few months ago??

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Wait, so there's nothing new regarding Holl, you resurrected this thread just to quote yourself and complain? Just like you did a few months ago??

View attachment 888048

Yes. This is 'sort of' related to Walman. I liked Jake and he was a casualty because of this dumb contract. And I still love you too Lazio LOL...

 

[ShelbyZ]

Since we get rid of Walman and possible other trades Hall has a chance to play for Red Wings.
To me coming year is a good year for tanking. So far it looks like we are in the tanking mode . What is the next Yzerman move Maatta +third for future consideration?

ASP for a late 1st and some prospect winger taken in the 2nd last year.

Then that late first and Holl to SJ for future considerations.

 

[RedWingzz]

Since we get rid of Walman and possible other trades Hall has a chance to play for Red Wings.
To me coming year is a good year for tanking. So far it looks like we are in the tanking mode . What is the next Yzerman move Maatta +third for future consideration?

I'm sorry...you think this is a good year for tanking...?

We've been terrible for 8 seasons now, how long are we suppose to tank for, 20 years?

The time is now to take the next steps, and if the team doesn't improve, Yzerman and Lalonde need to absolutely be on the hot seat

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

Yzerman's worst move yet. Knew this was absolutely TERRIBLE July 1st just like Copp....

f*** you for bumping this thread and ruining my lunch. legit thought we had extended Holl with Walman's former cap hit

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

I'm sorry...you think this is a good year for tanking...?

We've been terrible for 8 seasons now, how long are we suppose to tank for, 20 years?

The time is now to take the next steps, and if the team doesn't improve, Yzerman and Lalonde need to absolutely be on the hot seat

It is a shitty team, tight against the cap, that is so desperate they need to attach a 2nd round pick to unload a contract signed a year ago and it's probably going to look even worse when he almost certainly uses that new found cap space to overpay for more crap.