Confirmed with Link: Red Wings sign D Justin Holl 3 years, 10.2M (3.4M AAV)

[wingerdinger]

It’s more money than I’d like for a 7th D but it’s not world shattering either. The contract is moveable. It was also signed before Petry was gifted to Detroit. I don’t think it was Yzerman’s intention to have 3.4 mil sitting.

I wonder if Petry's price dropped after we signed Holl? It had to be known that Petry was available going into the offseason.

 

[Oddbob]

It’s more money than I’d like for a 7th D but it’s not world shattering either. The contract is moveable. It was also signed before Petry was gifted to Detroit. I don’t think it was Yzerman’s intention to have 3.4 mil sitting.

Gifted seems generous for a guy who makes many bonehead plays and pretty much all his penalties this season have been bad/dumb penalties.

 

[Henkka]

I wonder if Petry's price dropped after we signed Holl? It had to be known that Petry was available going into the offseason.

- Holl was signed July 1st, 2023
- Karlsson was traded to Pens at August 6th, 2023
- Petry was traded to Detroit August 15th, 2023

Clearly, the Pittsburgh's need for a cap space (Petry out) happened over a month later, than signing Holl.

I'm quite sure Petry wasn't available earlier. Karlsson-trade changed the big picture.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Is everyone willing to admit this was an abysmal signing now? The guy was awful in Toronto and got term and a raise! Did Yzerman ever give his reasoning for signing this bum?

 

[Frk It]

Is everyone willing to admit this was an abysmal signing now? The guy was awful in Toronto and got term and a raise! Did Yzerman ever give his reasoning for signing this bum?

What is your point?

The off season was still a big win overall with adding Sprong, DeBrincat, Kane, Ghost. All of which has helped us get into a solid spot in the standings.

Were you expecting your GM to make 0 bad signings ever?

 

[Realgud]

Is everyone willing to admit this was an abysmal signing now? The guy was awful in Toronto and got term and a raise! Did Yzerman ever give his reasoning for signing this bum?

inb4 he has a Chiarot like resurgence next season

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

What is your point?

The off season was still a big win overall with adding Sprong, DeBrincat, Kane, Ghost. All of which has helped us get into a solid spot in the standings.

Were you expecting your GM to make 0 bad signings ever?

The point is I am in a thread about the Justin Holl signing and talking about how bad it was. What do all those other signings have to do with what I was talking about? What is YOUR point?

 

[Frk It]

The point is I am in a thread about the Justin Holl signing and talking about how bad it was. What do all those other signings have to do what what I was talking about? What is YOUR point?

The big picture matters. Complaining about 1 thing when the vast majority has been good is silly/petty

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

The big picture matters. Complaining about 1 thing when the vast majority has been good is silly/petty

This is the Justin Holl signing thread. Where else should I talk about this? You are literally making zero sense right now...

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

He was signed because he was a righty and will get moved because he is a righty.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Is everyone willing to admit this was an abysmal signing now? The guy was awful in Toronto and got term and a raise! Did Yzerman ever give his reasoning for signing this bum?

He’s not great. He’s serviceable as a 5/6 and can kill penalties.

Abysmal signings are way worse than paying bottom pair money for a bottom pair guy.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Is everyone willing to admit this was an abysmal signing now? The guy was awful in Toronto and got term and a raise! Did Yzerman ever give his reasoning for signing this bum?

Honestly, the signing has turned out to be a mistake because of changing circumstances and Newsie's preferences more than anything. So I'll explain the logic and what has gone wrong for Holl since. At the time of the signing we had:

Walman-Seider
Ghost-Chiarot
Maatta-Edvinsson

as our top 6 D. Chiarot was coming off an awful season, Ghost couldn't be counted on at even strength and it was unclear whether Edvinsson would be ready. So it makes sense that Yzerman would want a 7th, established NHL D that could provide insurance if Ed wasn't ready, Chiarot was awful or Ghost's even strength defense made him a 7th D + PP specialist type.

Then Petry became available and Yzerman decided that he couldn't pass up the opportunity. To me, that was the single biggest mistake because Petry is not materially better than Holl, Maatta and Chiarot. It meant that when Ed made it clear that he was NHL ready, we now had 8 NHL defenseman and as the guy on an ELC, Ed was the odd man out. This was the second mistake. We should have acted then and there to make room for him.

Next Chiarot had a resurgence, Ghost showed that his offensive contributions easily outweigh his defensive problems, and everyone on D remained remarkably healthy. Furthermore, despite Petry being awful, Lalonde refuses to sit him. So only Maatta and Holl could sit on any given night and with Maatta providing a more steady presence, he always gets the nod. This, to me, represents the third mistake. We should have been rotating Holl in for Maatta and Petry so that his trade value didn't plummet into the negatives. Furthermore, without a regular shift, he's now cold any time that he does get to play.

Would we be better off if we'd never signed Holl? Absolutely. I think at the time of the signing it made sense. It's only such a big problem with the power of hindsight and the sum of every mistake made since. As things are, Holl is expensive and immovable. So we have to get rid of Maatta, Petry and/or Chiarot. That will be tough as they're regular players on our probably playoff- bound team and you hate to disrupt a D core that's more or less working.

 

[Frk It]

This is the Justin Holl signing thread. Where else should I talk about this? You are literally making zero sense right now...

Just pointing out there are reasons people aren’t as upset at this signing as you want them to be.

 

[ShelbyZ]

I thought when Red Wings fans on social media were calling him the next Larry Murphy, they were talking about on ice, but what they really meant was that he'd enjoy eating stadium hot dogs away from it.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

 

[14ari13]

What is your point?

The off season was still a big win overall with adding Sprong, DeBrincat, Kane, Ghost. All of which has helped us get into a solid spot in the standings.

Were you expecting your GM to make 0 bad signings ever?

Lyon.
Yzerman has overpaid a bit for Holl, Compher and Copp, but that's the way how it works. In 90% cases you have to overpay for free agents.
Holl actually played some solid games and some very bad games.

It is a notion on this board the more you bash and complain about the players who have a bad game/games/season the more knowledgeable you seem.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Is everyone willing to admit this was an abysmal signing now? The guy was awful in Toronto and got term and a raise! Did Yzerman ever give his reasoning for signing this bum?

Like in goal, Yzerman addressed a need through sheer numbers. Holl was an unpopular signing just like Reimer was, but at least Reimer is producing solid starts of late. This is part of the reason why I'd like to make a play for Hanafin. A top 4 of Seider, Hanafin, Edvinsson and Walman would reduce the need to sign a bunch of journeyman d-men to fill out our defensive parings. Maata, Holl, Petry, Gostisbehere and Chiarot are all journeymen who have no long-term future in Detroit. What they have done is let guys like Edvinsson Wallinder and the Johanssons mature while the big club fights it out for a playoff spot.

 

[Henkka]

Is everyone willing to admit this was an abysmal signing now? The guy was awful in Toronto and got term and a raise! Did Yzerman ever give his reasoning for signing this bum?

Maybe unneeded?

Why abysmal?

This is Justin Holl's 3-year sample size from Toronto:

Does not look anyhow of pile of SHIT or abysmal.

This is how he has done at Detroit.

Also not anyhow look a PILE of SHIT.

But because he became the 7th D, and there was 6 better defenceman helping our team, you idiots bought the Toronto hate, how THEY SAID he was pile of SHIT, and now you idiots believe 100% that damn story.

Stop thinking like Toronto idiots as a hatered. Be smart and gentle like Detroit Red Wings fans are.

He is just lower pairing defenceman, not having a good season.

My god, I've seen bigger mistakes in my life.

 

[wingerdinger]

- Holl was signed July 1st, 2023
- Karlsson was traded to Pens at August 6th, 2023
- Petry was traded to Detroit August 15th, 2023

Clearly, the Pittsburgh's need for a cap space (Petry out) happened over a month later, than signing Holl.

I'm quite sure Petry wasn't available earlier. Karlsson-trade changed the big picture.

thank you for the clarification. much appreciated.

so Steve got a little unlucky with the timing of things.

I completely understand why Steve felt he had to go out an sign Holl before somebody else got to his player in this case.

Still didnt like the signing at the time, but like Ive said before a mistake we should be able to get around without giving too much up.

 

[Holden Caufield]

 

[Dotter]

The point is I am in a thread about the Justin Holl signing and talking about how bad it was. What do all those other signings have to do with what I was talking about? What is YOUR point?

I'll play. It's only bad if it hinders Yzerman's plans. That's not happening, so no.... it's not bad. Just redundant overpaid depth.

Good for Holl. It's nothing more than spending Billionaire's money and I doubt Ilitch org cares either.

Holl's contract is a big fat juicy nothing-burger. The real question is why do you care about a billionaires money? Chris will be just fine financially. Wings will be fine. You will be fine. We will all be fine!

 

[14ari13]

Maybe unneeded?

Why abysmal?

This is Justin Holl's 3-year sample size from Toronto:

View attachment 829909

Does not look anyhow of pile of SHIT or abysmal.

View attachment 829912

This is how he has done at Detroit.

Also not anyhow look a PILE of SHIT.

But because he became the 7th D, and there was 6 better defenceman helping our team, you idiots bought the Toronto hate, how THEY SAID he was pile of SHIT, and now you idiots believe 100% that damn story.

Stop thinking like Toronto idiots as a hatered. Be smart and gentle like Detroit Red Wings fans are.

He is just lower pairing defenceman, not having a good season.

My god, I've seen bigger mistakes in my life.

Signing Holl is not a mistake, not mistake by any means.
Holl, Compher and Copp are (slightly) overpaid, but FAs are in 90% cases overpaid.

 

[Hazy Little Thing]

It’s more money than I’d like for a 7th D but it’s not world shattering either. The contract is moveable. It was also signed before Petry was gifted to Detroit. I don’t think it was Yzerman’s intention to have 3.4 mil sitting.

It was when he signed Petry.

 

[Hazy Little Thing]

The big picture matters. Complaining about 1 thing when the vast majority has been good is silly/petty

This is incredibly silly logic. Just because W, X, and Y were okay doesn't mean you can't complain about Z, which this thread is about. Blind loyalty is pathetic, all decisions should be allowed to be questioned.

 

[Hazy Little Thing]

He was signed because he was a righty and will get moved because he is a righty.

Can you back up this logic? There were as many 50 point pacing RHD last year as there were LHD. So there's the same number of top end RHD as LHD, is it the bottom pairing where RHD struggle to fill roster spots?