Red Wings current rise is based on players matured in Sweden
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Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
- 37,053
- 16,082
I personally tend to think a lot of these guys would have succeeded regardless of where they were developed, but it is interesting.
We also are seeing some of our NA players developing well now too. Cossa, Augustine, Plante, Mazur, Danielson, etec.
We also are seeing some of our NA players developing well now too. Cossa, Augustine, Plante, Mazur, Danielson, etec.
...and soon to be Elias Pettersson - SHL Växjö
izlez
Carter Mazur Fan Club
- Feb 28, 2012
- 5,201
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Meh... don't think there's too much to read into here. Yzerman came in 6 drafts ago. He took guys from Sweden in the first round early on. Those guys unsurprisingly have done well. Lots of other guys that played in Sweden also failed. We'll also be getting a wave of non-Swedes soon.
And a bit of a side note: At this point I'm kinda gonna enjoy the collective whiplash this board has when we lose 2 or 3 in a row
And a bit of a side note: At this point I'm kinda gonna enjoy the collective whiplash this board has when we lose 2 or 3 in a row
Henkka
Registered User
Damn, I forgot Berggren from the list.... and Veleno who did visit in Sweden during corona.
What Yzerman said then, was that he though SHL is the best place to develop for NHL hockey.
What Yzerman said then, was that he though SHL is the best place to develop for NHL hockey.
GarlicbreadTB
Registered User
- Apr 16, 2015
- 1,191
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Michigan winters are basically summer after a few years in Sweden. Especially for the Skellefteå players.
Henkka
Registered User
Could he have said Sweden was best because they weren't shut down and uncertain of what the season would look like in the AHL when Veleno went to Sweden? Yzerman does not believe that the SHL is the absolute unquestioned best place to develop for the NHL or he wouldn't bring former SHL players over to play in the AHL.
Was he singing the SHL praises when he was fighting for MBN to leave Sweden and come to the AHL this year?
There is a blended development that they appear to believe in for European players, and it is a mix of both leagues and nations
DamonDRW
Registered User
SoupNazi
Global Moderator
- Feb 6, 2010
- 27,697
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If you’re right about this, I’ll approve you removing the “Lund” from your name.
HisNoodliness
Safe is death
Don't Finns have a very strange statistical anomaly where they win cups at a much lower rate than the fraction of the league that they represent? I don't feel like digging it up but I remember when Barkov was trying to become the first Finnish captain to win it, there was an Athletic article that more or less claimed "you can't win with a Finn."
Seider is a product of Adler Mannheim and not Rögle. He played for Rögle even after he already played in North America and showed that he can handle AHL. Sure it was good year for his develoment but saying matured in Sweden is wrong. But I guess never let the truth get in way of a good story...
Henkka
Registered User
Don't hang too much on this.
I know they did play elsewhere. But Yzerman message was that SHL hockey, on his mind, prepares well for NHL-styled high-tempo hockey.
And he likes our guys to go there and come from there. It will affect on development in a good way he sees.
Coach Reggie Dunlop
Registered User
There’s a huge huge difference between a Detroit winter and a northern Michigan winter lol. Northern half of Michigan winters can be absolutely brutal. Detroit has very very easy winters comparatively.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
It's Yzerman leaning on Håkan Andersson and trying to maximize value with a non-optimal draft position.
SHL being a good place for development is just a bonus.
SHL being a good place for development is just a bonus.
Yeah but we could have had Broberg, Holtz, Wallstedt and Lekkerimäki if it was that simple.
RabidBadger
Play ****ing hockey.
The SHL is a phenomenal league. I trust that any prospect that develops there will generally be in good hands. That being said, I feel our current rise is based on good drafting as opposed to the caca Ken Holland was supplying. I mean, it's not like Zadina and Rasmussen would have been significantly better if they developed in the SHL.
Ulysses31
Registered User
Seems swedish (edit european) scouting rarely has missed lately with exception of neiderbach and guessing some in later round picks. it has given Drw a slight edge in drafting lately and drw have been better at drafting IMO than average NHL team since SY takeover.
DRW developement solid seemingly partially due to SHL but DRw shrewd at keeping players in leagues appropriate for their developement whether b CHL/SHL/AHL/college etc
finally SY seems to get prospects cook, and while some people hate it, it seems to be finally paying off on DRW roster with emergence of soderblom, aljo
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Info taken from articles written by Art Regner and Ryan Guenter.
Hakan Anderson is one of the most highly respected scouts in the NHL and was tasked by former GM Holland to find quality players mostly outside the first round while Detroit reserved the early rounds for their North American scouts. He was only 24 y.o. when Detroit hired him to be their chief European scout back in 1989.
Here is what the young Hakan had to say back then:
"For the first two or three years, Kenny was really good, he helped me along. We had a lot of conversations. There was a lot more draft picks
back then. There was 12 rounds or something. So you were looking for more players. One of the things that we talked about was maybe taking a flier on some of the European players in the later rounds because he wasn't always happy with the late-round names that came from North America."
Some of Andersson's late round European "flier picks" turned out to have long and distinguished Red Wings careers. Tomas Holmstrom (257th overall,1994), Pavel Datsyuk (171st overall, 1998), Henrik Zetterberg (210th overall, 1999) and Jonathan Ericsson (291st overall, 2002).
He also was responsible for scouting other key pieces for the Redwings during Holland's tenure as GM including Niklas Kronwall, Jiri Hudler, Valteri Filippula, Johan Franzen, Gustav Nyquist, and Tomas Tatar. Of the above players only one was taken in the first round Kronwall who became a workhorse for Detroit on defence and is currently responsible for helping develop the Redwings prospects in Europe.
An amazing feature about the above list of players is the fact that only one player was taken in the first round. While the caliber of player on this list varies, they all played more than 500 NHL games. Most
importantly, this continuous draft thievery took place as the Red Wings were collecting four Stanley Cups. This meant the team was usually not “flush” with draft picks after using them to bolster the team accordingly.
For example, the Red Wings’ first selection was not until the fourth round of the 1999 NHL Entry Draft! This, of course, was a result of the back-to-back Red Wing cup victories in 1997 and 1998. Despite their lack of selections, the team was able to “steal” Henrik Zetterberg in the seventh round. In retrospect, the native of Njurunda (Sweden) should have been a top-10 pick in 1999.
Similarly, the Red Wings were not scheduled to make their first selection in 2004 until the third round when they took “the Swedish Mule” — Johan Franzen. In this case, the lack of early picks was the result of a third Stanley Cup in 2002, and last of the Steven Yzerman era.
One of the more memorable selections in Red Wings history took place in Buffalo, New York, during the 1998 NHL Draft. Detroit did have a first-round selection that year and took current
Associate Director of Player Personnel, Jiri Fischer. However, it was the team’s sixth-round selection that most Detroit fans now distinctly recall. Of course, the team selected a young Russian player named Pavel Datsyuk with the 171st-overall pick that year. Andersson’s efforts in selecting the Russian superstar are now well documented.
In effect, Detroit kept “stocking the cupboards” — even when they were lacking premium draft picks. This obviously had a big impact on the Red Wings’ 25-straight playoff appearances from 1990 through 2016. It was also a big reason why the team was able to capture the 2008 Stanley Cup without longtime captain Yzerman. All of these organizational feats were in part due to the expertise and contributions of the now famous Håkan Andersson.
Dallas Stars general manager Jim Nill worked with Andersson in Detroit's front office from 1994 until April 2013. Among Nill's responsibilities with the Red Wings was Director of Amateur Scouting, which included running the NHL Entry Draft. He actually tried to convince Andersson to join him when he became GM at the Stars but the latter
refused.
Nill saw something in Andersson's ability to hone in on a players skill set which, if developed, could translate well into the NHL.
"A real passion for the game. He had a good feel," Nill said to describe Andersson as a scout. "There are certain attributes when you watch for scouting. Some people like size, some like skating. Hakan loved hockey sense. He loves guys that have good skills and good hockey sense. But he had a good way of projecting.
"The toughest part with scouting is we can watch Connor McDavid when he's 18 and say he's going to be a star, it's finding the Henrik Zetterberg's, the Pavel Datsyuk's, when they're underdeveloped, they're 18 years old, they can't skate good enough, but you got a feeling about them that that (skating) can get better, that's where he was good. He had a great way of projecting who he thought had a chance of playing because their weaknesses, he thought they could become strengths down the road. And he loved the hockey sense."
While former GM Holland relied on Anderson primarily to find players in the later draft rounds, current Redwings GM Yzerman and Director of Scouting Kris Draper who both respected and recognized Hakan's scouting abilities when they were still players with Detroit relied on him to help make decisions on the earlier rounds right from the start of their first draft in Detroit including first round picks Moritz Seider, Lucas Raymond, Simon Edvinsson and Marco Kasper as well as later round picks Albert Johansson and 6'8" monster Elmer Soderblom(159th overall) all of whom are now vital pieces of Detroit's current resurgence not to mention exciting late round draft pick Russian Dmitri Buchelnikov who is excelling in the KHL as well as a player the Redwings decided to trade for this year Finn Jesse Kiiskinen who excelled for Finland in the recent World Junior Hockey Championships.
When Draper began overseeing the Red Wings' draft in 2020, he wanted to expand Andersson's duties to include three trips per year to North America because he wanted Andersson to see top-end North American talent. Andersson was all for it because it all comes down to building the Red Wings into an elite team competing for Stanley Cups.
Sometimes I go in some kind of work mode where I just (feel), 'I'm hired to find players, I must get to work and find players. I want to win. I want the Red Wings to win. I don't care really about the passport,'" Andersson said.
Amongst the scouting community, the Stockholm native has reached near folklore status. It is rare for an individual scout to be recognized for his/her accomplishments before they reach the top echelon of the NHL executive ranks but not so for Hakan.
It is exciting to think that at 59, Andersson is basically still in his talent identification prime. Already a winner of four Cups with the Red Wings, he is now helping general manager Yzerman build the next championship team.
During his 34 years with the Red Wings, Andersson has become an instrumental piece in the organizational puzzle. His recommendations and contributions have made an indelible imprint within the team’s history. To think that this could only be the mid point is yet another reason for Red Wing nation to be hopeful. It might also make Andersson a future consideration for the builder category within the Hockey of Hall of Fame — if he isn’t
already.
With regards to development, they have assembled quite a nice roster of former Redwings players and one MSU alum to help develop their players starting with Kronwall in Sweden who was singled out by many of their European prospects many of whom have graduated to the Redwings for helping guide and nurture their development and Shawn Horcoff (Redwings Asst. GM) and Dan Cleary in North America who is the Assistant Director of Player of Development for the Redwings. Horcoff as GM in Grand Rapids is directly responsible for helping their minor league affiliate Griffins succeed while nurturing the Redwings prospects there.
“It takes the whole army to win the war,” McLellan said. “And I don’t know if that’s a good analogy in today’s world, but it takes everybody. So our scouting staff, our development staff — to see the kids come in now and play is really important, it’s rewarding for everybody in the organization, including the fans. Forward-thinking with the type of players that I hear are coming, if they maintain their path, their development path, there’s going to be more of them arriving, and hopefully they can do
what this group of young men (Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Johansson, and Soderblom) have done.”
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