Pre-Game Talk: Recent Play

[MinJaBen]

It’s a little early for roster speculation but 3rd and 4th lines need a re-work with some size.

Our third line is actually fine except for two of the three of them need new contracts that will likely be too expensive. I'd counter that the problem with the fourth line is not a size issue, though you'd like to have it, it is that for Rod's system, it is built wrong. What we don't need on that line are "savvy veterans looking for a cup" but youth with speed looking to make their name. Rod's forechecking style needs kids who are fast to get into the zone and willing to throw their bodies into the opponent to retrieve the puck. Veterans who are slow and feel the bumps and bruises more need not apply to the fourth line in this system. We played better in Rod's first year when our fourth line was AHL plus guys than we do now with Stephan and Stastney and Noesen (I love his scoring and PP contribution, but his foot speed is not ideal for Rod's system). When our bottom two lines are fast, they wearout the other team and we reap the benefits in the later parts of the game.

We also need a better set of goalies.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Our third line is actually fine except for two of the three of them need new contracts that will likely be too expensive. I'd counter that the problem with the fourth line is not a size issue, though you'd like to have it, it is that for Rod's system, it is built wrong. What we don't need on that line are "savvy veterans looking for a cup" but youth with speed looking to make their name. Rod's forechecking style needs kids who are fast to get into the zone and willing to throw their bodies into the opponent to retrieve the puck. Veterans who are slow and feel the bumps and bruises more need not apply to the fourth line in this system. We played better in Rod's first year when our fourth line was AHL plus guys than we do now with Stephan and Stastney and Noesen (I love his scoring and PP contribution, but his foot speed is not ideal for Rod's system). When our bottom two lines are fast, they wearout the other team and we reap the benefits in the later parts of the game.

We also need a better set of goalies.

Ill disagree on the 3rd line. We have 3 4th liners playing 3rd line in the name of suppressing top lines. While they are pretty good at it (Martinook struggles), they suck at scoring. For a line that spends the 2nd most 5v5 time on the ice, that is a lot of time for opposing teams not worrying about being scored on.

Our offense looks bad if 2 Top 6 forwards have down years because our 3rd and 4th lines are black holes. And don’t have anyone who should be relied on to move up to help with scoring.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

- Didn’t have the right assets for Tkachuk
- Pacioretty injury
- Pacioretty injury again
- Didn’t have the right assets for Meier
- Svechnikov injury

That’s a lot of stuff going the other way on them. Their ideal scenario may have been to add a rental forward to add to Pacioretty and Svechnikov. Instead, they end up with a painfully thin forward group. It sucks for them as much as it sucks for us.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Similarly, the Sharks fans are not fondly remembering all the good seasons they had last decade without a cup.

Only one outcome is acceptable to a fan.

In fairness, no team "fondly remember" shit seasons. I won't speak for you, but I don't "fondly remember" the 06 cup win in the 10 years of suck from 09-19. So no, for some fans, there's not only 1 outcome that is acceptable.

 

[The Faulker 27]

There are a lot people having a bad time lately. Never a bad time to take a break from not having a good time.

 

[AD Skinner]

I fondly remember the 02 run even though they didn’t win. Same with 09 and 19. 20 and on kinda blur together for me, I’m not sure if it’s because the core is so similar or they haven’t made it past the second round or just pre covid everything seems so different, but I don’t really subscribe that cup or bust is integral to the fan experience. I’m sure Brind’Amour and the players feel like it’s cup or bust every year and they should, but to me I’m just having fun watching a winning team. Like if the bruins weren’t having maybe the best season in league history we’d be talking about whether the canes could win the presidents trophy. Like we were talking last year. Yes injuries suck but it’s part of playing a physical game. Watching the team today beats the hell out of wondering what they’ll get for upcoming free agents at the trade deadline as was the highlight of our season for almost ten straight years

 

[surfzone365]

So let’s say we completely flop this postseason, and instead of being the Cardiac Canes we’re use to we become the next series of regular-season juggernaut flameouts like the Caps, Sharks and Canucks. Do we see the clock really start ticking on Rod? Fair or not we know coaches are frontline casualties for blown expectations. If we have issues, many could argue that Rod is not one of them but maybe his system isnt postseason capable? Maybe he just doesn’t have the right personnel to make it happen? Just throwing that out there…

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I don’t think we would ever see a firing of any kind across the board with the kind of success we have

 

[LostInaLostWorld]

As long as they fill the seats and don't outright suck (kind of hand in hand) I don't see TD axing Rod. If anything I could see Rod eventually saying let someone else try.

 

[surfzone365]

We’ve seen crazy things happen. Barry Trotz comes to mind. I personally don’t think we have the pieces right now - even if Svech or Patches were healthy - to beat Boston or NYR after they made improvements. But like I said, crazy things happen. Let’s hope we’re 2019-type surprised. I’d hate to see Rod be under the gun when the situation isn’t a fair fight.

 

[LakeLivin]

We’ve seen crazy things happen. Barry Trotz comes to mind. I personally don’t think we have the pieces right now - even if Svech or Patches were healthy - to beat Boston or NYR after they made improvements. But like I said, crazy things happen. Let’s hope we’re 2019-type surprised. I’d hate to see Rod be under the gun when the situation isn’t a fair fight.

I'm of the opinion that Dundon is a pretty rational guy, which is not the case for many of the posters on social media forums. If Dundon were to subscrib to the notion that the Canes make drastic changes because they didn't win it all yet, I could see the franchise becoming more Florida Panthers than Tampa Bay Lightening.

 

[surfzone365]

I'm of the opinion that Dundon is a pretty rational guy, which is not the case for many of the posters on social media forums. If Dundon were to subscrib to the notion that the Canes make drastic changes because they didn't win it all yet, I could see the franchise becoming more Florida Panthers than Tampa Bay Lightening.

I would hope that there isn’t a notion for a fire sale type of change. I believe we have a good foundation with a superior culture most franchises envy. A few tweaks here and there, a few holes to plug… sure. But I would hope there isn’t a panic-driven cascade of events that completely alters the face of the team. Dundon has a good track record with us so far so I trust he’ll do whatever it takes. There are some elephant in the room issues we all bemoan we’ll be best not to let those don’t spill over season to season.

 

[chaz4hockey]

So let’s say we completely flop this postseason, and instead of being the Cardiac Canes we’re use to we become the next series of regular-season juggernaut flameouts like the Caps, Sharks and Canucks. Do we see the clock really start ticking on Rod? Fair or not we know coaches are frontline casualties for blown expectations. If we have issues, many could argue that Rod is not one of them but maybe his system isnt postseason capable? Maybe he just doesn’t have the right personnel to make it happen? Just throwing that out there…

I’d blame the GM and Borg for roster construction before I’d finger RBA as the bad guy.

Btw: off-season roster strengthening is very important. Goaltending ranks as the most important to fix along with more goal scoring and size. The pressure is clearly on Waddell and the Borg to improve as their ‘22 summer moves have mostly failed.

Worryingly, as presently constructed, I could see Canes as a below 100 point team with 3rd place in the Division as the best case goal without some appropriate moves.

 

[Stickpucker]

Just a sad post.

There isn’t a recipe for success in the playoff formula but a hot goaltender. There is 0 way to predict that.

If a hot goaltender is so valuable you need to ask what beats a hot goalie.

*Elite scorers
*People who get to the net
*People who take goalies off their games. I've noticed more and more other teams players making an effort to fall on goalies and not slow down on breakaways to crash into goalies. It rarely gets galley as goalie interference. On the other hand our guys are mostly southern gentlemen around opposing goalies. This is the low hanging fruit to help.

 

[Stickpucker]

As long as they fill the seats and don't outright suck (kind of hand in hand) I don't see TD axing Rod. If anything I could see Rod eventually saying let someone else try.

There ain't no quit in that dog.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

If a hot goaltender is so valuable you need to ask what beats a hot goalie.

Elite scorers
People who get to the net
People who take goalies off their games. I've noticed more and more other teams players making an effort to fall on goalies and not slow down on breakaways to crash into goalies. It rarely gets galley as goalie interference. On the other hand our guys are mostly southern gentlemen around opposing goalies. This is the low hanging fruit to help.

Elite scorers aren’t low hanging fruit to help

 

[bleedgreen]

This ain’t coaching it’s roster construction. Whether you like the style or not it works and there’s no lack of buy in. It’s a style that needs a lot of legs to do it all season plus playoffs. They get old farts like Stepan and Stastny because you know they get it and will buy in but they can’t help much when we’re hurting like this. I’d like Rod to find a way to include the young guys in those roles just to get fresh blood in there. I wouldn't mind seeing the kids get some games if we were going to limp to the end. For a team that’s where we are in the standings we’re not very deep even in role players past the starting lineup.

 

[Derailed75]

Reasons for optimism.

One win and we secure home ice for the first round

Two wins and we secure home ice unless we face the Bruins, including the finals if they make it.

This is the Canes we are talking about, they have never had post season success without there being a lot of drama. As of right now we are down 2 significant offensive weapons, the goalies have looked shaky, and the whole team is stumbling into the playoffs, and we havent even started the playoffs yet. Remember all the "named" post season series wins, the OT game 7 against the Caps in Washington. I will lose hope when the horn hits zero on the season, until then they are nor out.

Also we have had a few dramatic regular season wins this season. The 2 goals to tie it with under 2 minutes against the Sharks stands out but there are a few others.

In all honesty, obviously I am not as high on them as before the injuries and the goalies falling off a cliff, but again we are talking about the Canes, and it would be so Canes for them to win it all when no one including their own fans think they can.

 

[Stickpucker]

Elite scorers aren’t low hanging fruit to help

made it prettier so you understand.

the 3rd asterisk is the low hanging fruit. disrupt the goalie. bump him. don't let him get comfortable. charge into the net at full speed.

 

[SvechneJerk]

This ain’t coaching it’s roster construction. Whether you like the style or not it works and there’s no lack of buy in. It’s a style that needs a lot of legs to do it all season plus playoffs. They get old farts like Stepan and Stastny because you know they get it and will buy in but they can’t help much when we’re hurting like this. I’d like Rod to find a way to include the young guys in those roles just to get fresh blood in there. I wouldn't mind seeing the kids get some games if we were going to limp to the end. For a team that’s where we are in the standings we’re not very deep even in role players past the starting lineup.

I’d love to see Pono, Rees, Suzuki, or even Tieksola, given his recent play.

 

[bleedgreen]

I’d love to see Pono, Rees, Suzuki, or even Tieksola, given his recent play.

Yup. I think it’s a great thing to reward the young players while giving the starters some time off. Even if we lost the games it would be fun to watch vs watching the guys playing out the string like they are right now.

 

[LakeLivin]

Unfortunately there's only going to be one game left at a point where the Canes could have the Division clinched. And with 4 games left, the Wolves have their playoff destiny in their hands but are in a dogfight with Rockford. Although, their announcement to go independent might have lessened the Canes incentive to more heavily weight that versus the opportunity to give a couple of kids an NHL game while resting a couple Canes regulars.

 

[moses malone 12]

But injuries and there's always next year™. I'm also told being the 2010s San Jose Sharks and Nashville Predators is perfectly fine. Real success is cool, but having fun and defending subprime lending guy is cooler.

is "subprime lending guy" taken as a name on hockeys future? Asking for a friend...I see you Tommy Dundo.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Yup. I think it’s a great thing to reward the young players while giving the starters some time off. Even if we lost the games it would be fun to watch vs watching the guys playing out the string like they are right now.

Playoff position matters a hell of a lot. One win could be the difference between the leaguewide #16 team or the #5 team in the first round. The latter would be criminal after everything this team has done this season.

It would have been nice to just coast down the stretch with meaningless games, but we didn't quite earn that right. They're playing hard right now because they really need to.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Playoff position matters a hell of a lot. One win could be the difference between the leaguewide #16 team or the #5 team in the first round. The latter would be criminal after everything this team has done this season.

It would have been nice to just coast down the stretch with meaningless games, but we didn't quite earn that right. They're playing hard right now because they really need to.

Playoff seeding only matters for the first round to have a more favorable matchup. Even then i don’t think its a huge bump in winning percentage in the East. The current division pod shenanigans format has killed any real seeding favoritism. It’s just a hope to survive and advance model. That is fun for TV because series are more “up for grabs” but it has killed the necessity for the regular season.