Re-tooling For One More Run With This Core
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That D is horrendous, and no way Giordano signs for 1 million.
Some of those player traded will need to have salary coming back as well... Muzzin value has plummeted with all those injuries, we're stuck with him for better or worse.
Mrazek, lol. That will cost quite a bit to get rid of.
Rielly at 7.5 millions is a no brainer, but for him to accept such a low AAV it would need to be an 8 y contract.
Why would Lyubushkin sign for 2 millions, or Blackwell for league min? These contracts are too cheap to be true
ULF_55
Moderator
Rielly already signed that 8 year deal, at 7.5.
Are you still drinking through till this morning (I know that I wish I was)?...
Morgan Rielly has already been extended at $7.5 million for 8 years, starting in 2022.
And that defense core is absolutely the furthest thing from horrendous, especially if Toronto makes a quality move to find a nice partner for Rielly, long term.
As for Giordano, he's 38 years old, turning 39 during next season. He's already made a ton of money. This is his chance to come home and play a few years before retirement. Maybe you go up to $2.0 million, but like Chara and Spezza, as 40 approached and the money had been made, the salary plummeted. I'd expect the same out of Gio.
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Giordano is still a top 4 D. People expecting 1 million/year are dreaming.
ULF_55
Moderator
I have to agree.
I could see him signing at the amount the Leafs are paying him this year, around 3.5 and I could see it being 2 years.
He would only accept a trade to Toronto, which tells me he isn’t going to play anywhere else next season. If he has one option he’s not going to expect a $5 million salary on a cap strapped team.
Gio will take a Spezza/Simmonds deal.
So was Chara, when his salary fell off a cliff. In fact, he was still a better version of Giordano. Undoubtedly, when Dubas made the trade and invested the assets to bring Giordano home to finish his career, it was with the mindset that he'd be getting a really nice price for the final few years of his career. Maybe it's not $1.0 million right away, but I'd bet that it's no more than $2.0 million.
As for the rest of the core, the Giordano / Liljegren pairing looked great in the regular season. I'd expect the Leafs to move on from Holl and for Liljegren to assume that #4 spot permanently, starting in 2022. He'll be another year older and better, and already showed top 4 signs last year. Similar career progression to MacKenzie Weegar in Florida. Giordano is the perfect partner to keep bringing him along.
Brodie / Lyubushkin, with Sandin rotating in, would actually be a fantastic bottom pairing compared to what the rest of the league has to offer. Both guys have played major minutes, much higher in the pecking order and both guys are still in their prime.
Rielly is clearly a stud and in Toronto for the long haul. Toronto would be well served to invest $3-4 million in a defense first, top 4 RHD, that could be paired with Rielly for the foreseeable future.
I think that come 2023 we're probably looking to move on from Brodie (like Muzzin in 2022) and allow Sandin to assume that role as the #3 RHD, on a full time basis, again, shedding cap space at the right time.
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paulhiggins
Registered User
- Feb 4, 2006
- 2,807
- 827
I like it but would also trade Nylander and I think in your chart that Liljegren's salary is too high.
I don't expect it to be that sweetheart of a deal, but somewhere between $1-2 million for 1-2 years, then re-evaluate to see if he still wants to / is able to play after that, at which point qe'd be talking league minimum.
Suntouchable13
Registered User
Don't like Campbell at 4M. It will be the same result again. We need to re-balance the cap.
You might get Liljegren for a little bit less. Maybe $2.5-2.7, but I'd be ok paying a touch more if it gets you a third year. If you intend to bridge Sandin for 2 years, which I think is the correct move, I don't want both guys expiring at the same time.
Aashir
Backcheck, Forecheck, Paycheque
- Apr 19, 2019
- 13,889
- 14,994
I don’t wanna retool with this core unless one of the core is apart of the retool
Otherwise it’s just shuffling deck chairs
But to entertain this thread, I think we need:
Top Pairing RHD
Top 6 Power Forward
Starting Goaltender
Proper Matchup Center
Otherwise it’s just shuffling deck chairs
But to entertain this thread, I think we need:
Top Pairing RHD
Top 6 Power Forward
Starting Goaltender
Proper Matchup Center
Does a guy who doesn't dress for half the playoffs get 2.5+?
I don't LOVE it either, but unless Toronto can cook up a trade for a guy like Hellebuyck, I don't see a goalie out there worth rebalancing the cap for at this point. If you told me that a Helle type guy was available ($6.1 million), I'd gladly ship a Nylander type player out and balance the cap in making it happen. Otherwise, a Campbell type might be our best option for now.
No more chances.
They’ve had every imaginable opportunity to win. Multiple 3-2 series leads, a 3-1 series lead, weak opponents; everything.
Last year changes should have been made. This year is one year overdue.
Significant changes from the core, to the goaltending, to the front office. ALL of it needs to be washed away otherwise next year will be the same shit.
They’ve had every imaginable opportunity to win. Multiple 3-2 series leads, a 3-1 series lead, weak opponents; everything.
Last year changes should have been made. This year is one year overdue.
Significant changes from the core, to the goaltending, to the front office. ALL of it needs to be washed away otherwise next year will be the same shit.
Very good post by the OP
Muzzin/Holl/Simmonds/Clifford/Kerfoot/Mrazek/Kase all need to go. Spezza too imo, I like him but he just doesnt bring enough at this age. Muzzins contract is too high for what he brings, I really like him but he's clearly on a decline now.
For the D go with
Rielly/Brodie
Gio/Lily
Sandin/Lybushkin
Add at least one more quality D-man or even make a big trade to acquire a legit #2D man.
For the forwards we obviously keep
Bunting/Matthews/Marner
xxx/Tavares/Nylander
Robertson/Kampf/Engvall
Blackwell/xxx/xxx
Goalies
Campbell/New player
I'd like to keep Mikheyev but I believe he expressed interest in wanting to play somewhere else. We are very close, but we need to re-tool for sure. Robertson on an ELC will be a huge boost and I think he can replace Mikheyev and provide more offence.
We need a legitimate top 6LW, Robertson is still far too inexperienced. We need a quality 4th line that isn't a liability. And we need one more legit D-man, Lily/Sandin are both very young.
Muzzin/Holl/Simmonds/Clifford/Kerfoot/Mrazek/Kase all need to go. Spezza too imo, I like him but he just doesnt bring enough at this age. Muzzins contract is too high for what he brings, I really like him but he's clearly on a decline now.
For the D go with
Rielly/Brodie
Gio/Lily
Sandin/Lybushkin
Add at least one more quality D-man or even make a big trade to acquire a legit #2D man.
For the forwards we obviously keep
Bunting/Matthews/Marner
xxx/Tavares/Nylander
Robertson/Kampf/Engvall
Blackwell/xxx/xxx
Goalies
Campbell/New player
I'd like to keep Mikheyev but I believe he expressed interest in wanting to play somewhere else. We are very close, but we need to re-tool for sure. Robertson on an ELC will be a huge boost and I think he can replace Mikheyev and provide more offence.
We need a legitimate top 6LW, Robertson is still far too inexperienced. We need a quality 4th line that isn't a liability. And we need one more legit D-man, Lily/Sandin are both very young.
If you're like me and you're in favour of moving Justin Holl, with the expectation that Liljegren will be ready for that role full time AND you want him for 3 years, so that he and Sandin don't come back up at the same time.... I think that number is about reasonable to get the 3rd year.
I don't hate the number in isolation, but I don't really see the need or justification for 2.5+
hamzarocks
Registered User
Carlo got 2 by 2.9 I think
Carlo was better/more utilized by lilijgren is now
Lilijgren should get 3 by 2M or 2.25M
Gio is at an age where his game can fall off overnight. We’d be crazy to give him anymore than 1 year. League wide he’s still considered top 4, but on this team he anchors our 3rd pair.
I'm fine with a left side of Rielly, Gio, Brodie, in any combination of minutes. IMO, Muzzin at 5.6 million, ought to be the odd man out. He just doesn't bring that kind of value to the lineup, at less than 2 million cheaper than Rielly.
Similarly, I'm fine with Liljegren and Lyubushkin on the right side, but we need a #1 RHD to pair with Rielly for a number of years.
If they can swing 3 years at that price I am definitely not going to complain. You'll get ZERO pushback from me. Something tells me that it comes in between $2.5-$3-0 for 3 years, but if they can get it done at the price you're suggesting, I'm two thumbs up!
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 83,099
- 62,018
I would actually be okay with getting rid of Brodie if a few dominos fall on the back end. I found a lot of little errors crept into his game Year 2.
Are you suggesting the following?
Rielly / Addition
Giordano / Liljegren
Sandin / Lyubushkin
Addition
Both Muzzin and Brodie coming off the cap, freeing up 11.6 million?
I ask because I'm not totally against that idea, but I think they'll do it over two years, with Muzzin being phased out this year and Brodie at the conclusion of 2022. I think there will be some nerves in the organization, to allow both Liljegren and Sandin to accept such large, full time roles, in the same year. I'd imagine they'll have Liljegren assume the full time this gig this year, with Sandin getting one more year of significant rotational minutes up and down the lineup, before assuming a full time role in 2023.
