RD Timothy Liljegren - Ex-Rogle BK, SHL (2017, 17th, TOR) III

[garyturner3]

If Edmonton offers their first for Liljegren do you accept

I doubt you'll find many Leaf fans that would accept the 10th overall pick in this draft for Liljegren. And rightfully so. He's looking much more like the player he was projected to be 5 months prior to the 2017 draft. Whatever concerns people had about him that caused him to drop to 17 seem to be a thing of the past.

 

[AppsSyl]

Defencemen develop their defensive game slowy.... Offense is typically a skill that is there, or not.

You look at current NHL D, and their stats in their rookie campaign in the AHL.

John Carlson - 19 year old AHL Rookie year. 39 points in 48 games.
Karlsson - 19 year old AHL Rookie - 11 points in 12 games
Subban - 20 year old AHL Rookie - 53 points in 77 games
Krug - 21 year old AHL Rookie - 45 points in 65 games
Tyson Barrie - 20 year old AHL Rookie - 32 points in 49 games.

Sure, offense can take time to develop in the NHL, but in the AHL, Elite offensive D, show their numbers in their first seasons.... Granted, Lilly is younger than these guys, and patience is needed... let's see what he can do with more ice time, as a 19 year old to start the year. And note... this is a discussion over the term "ELITE"... not good, or very good... but ELITE. As @613Leafer has said... if we get a very good Defensive guy, with average Offense skills, that a great player to have on our team.

Except Liljegren was 18 years old, not 19, 20 or 21 for the entire regular season.

 

[Sundinisagod]

If Edmonton offers their first for Liljegren do you accept

Probably not, depends who's there, Dobson would get strong consideration.

 

[Fogelhund]

That seems like a very dishonest interpretation given this was Liljegren's first year since being drafted. Carlson was in his second year, Karlsson in his second year, Subban in his third, Krug in his 4th and Barrie in his 3rd.

In short, you need better examples or to wait another one to 3 years and have Liljegren play in the AHL.

It's almost like people don't read, and just run to conclusions. Granted, Lilly is younger than these guys, and patience is needed... let's see what he can do with more ice time, as a 19 year old to start the year.

The point being offense doesn't take a long time in the AHL to develop. Those are numbers to compare Lilly to, this coming year. For him to be in a similar to discussion with those above names, he should have similar type numbers. something like 0.65ppg +.

 

[Atomos2]

It's almost like people don't read, and just run to conclusions. Granted, Lilly is younger than these guys, and patience is needed... let's see what he can do with more ice time, as a 19 year old to start the year.

The point being offense doesn't take a long time in the AHL to develop. Those are numbers to compare Lilly to, this coming year. For him to be in a similar to discussion with those above names, he should have similar type numbers. something like 0.65ppg +.

The bolded destroys your entire argument of him being only "very good" and not elite because you're comparisons were not 18. If you are going to judge him based on his play next year, why are you saying he's not elite?

 

[Fogelhund]

The bolded destroys your entire argument of him being only "very good" and not elite because you're comparisons were not 18. If you are going to judge him based on his play next year, why are you saying he's not elite?

Earlier on, I noted his World Junior numbers weren't that good... two points to five for Dahlin for example. His U18 numbers were pedestrian, which I pointed out... you'd have to read more than one post.

 

[Atomos2]

Earlier on, I noted his World Junior numbers weren't that good... two points to five for Dahlin for example. His U18 numbers were pedestrian, which I pointed out... you'd have to read more than one post.

Really? The kid is one win away from the Calder Cup and you're gonna judge him on the U18's?

 

[Fogelhund]

Really? The kid is one win away from the Calder Cup and you're gonna judge him on the U18's?

Oh yes, single handed going to win the Calder Cup.... and yes, players get judged in competitions, no matter where they are, or when they are.

Against his peers, in multiple international competitions, he hasn't shown ELITE offense. Agree, or Disagree?

This is about ELITE offense, not whether he will be a good, or useful piece. But, his one point in five game in the Calder Cup finals, is somehow proof he is going to be ELITE OFFENSIVELY ... and people are beyond defensive about this Leafs prospect.

You know who else is going to win the Calder Cup? Chris Mueller, and at the age of 22, he's fifth in AHL playoff scoring. Surely going to be an ELITE OFFENSIVE All Star based on your logic.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Is it wrong? At what point has Liljegren been putting up Elite offensive numbers? In the U20's? In the U18's? In the AHL?

Relative to other 18yo D who played a significant number of games in the AHL, his numbers were impressive this season. Equivalent to an elite junior season for sure. Relative to the league as a whole, no not an elite year this year, but a great developmental year for Liljegren.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Oh yes, single handed going to win the Calder Cup.... and yes, players get judged in competitions, no matter where they are, or when they are.

Against his peers, in multiple international competitions, he hasn't shown ELITE offense. Agree, or Disagree?

I mean, he’s had what, two international cmpetitions since his write-off mono year? He dominated the WJCSS. Officially with 4 points in 5 games (2 goals), but actually had 6 points as proven on the Leafs board with video footage (and first page of this thread), they just didn’t track secondary assists very well for non-American teams. That was an elite international performance, offensively speaking. Then the WJC, where he had two points and a third nice stretch pass that was an assist at the NHL level but not at the WJC. Not elite at that comp, but played well on the second pairing behind Dahlin, and second PP too, so he wasn’t put in a role to put up elite numbers.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

FYI, 17P in 44GP is *very* good for a 19yo D-man in the AHL. The last guy that did similar was Voynov.

18yo* Dman

 

[Kamiccolo]

Earlier on, I noted his World Junior numbers weren't that good... two points to five for Dahlin for example. His U18 numbers were pedestrian, which I pointed out... you'd have to read more than one post.

He didn't get the sage Dahlin did for one. Lilly was also the better defensive player in those games IMO.

 

[Castle8130]

If Edmonton offers their first for Liljegren do you accept

I would absolutely trade it for #10. A lot of good players there.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

If Edmonton offers their first for Liljegren do you accept

The value is close, though Leafs probably still decline.

Both teams need RHD, and with a draft+1 year of great development in the books already, Liljegren will likely be NHL ready before whichever D the Leafs could pick at #10.

 

[Maplebeasts]

I would absolutely trade it for #10. A lot of good players there.

Really? I wouldn't. He's put up a really strong draft+1 season in the second best pro league on the continent. He's shown the questions he had leading in to the draft are either fixed or not a huge deal. He looks a lot more like the possible top pairing defender he was billed as heading into his draft year than the wildcard picked in the mid first round.

 

[Seras]

A player heading in the right direction vs. A pick that could wind up better or worse with less certainty? Not worth it imo.

 

[4thline]

From watching him more and more I really like what Button said about him last year. People were ****ting on Button for saying he didn't have the offensive abilities in the offensive zone that the truely elite point producing dmen possess, but that he does have the ability to be very good everywhere else. I believe he compared him to a prime Trevor Daley? A solid #3-4 type guy that can play big minutes if needed.

Problem is that few people appreciate prime Daley for what he was. If Liljegren's career norm is Daley's peak (30-35 point ~3D that can handle tough matchups) then it's a damn good pick at 17.

With what he's shown so far that's a reasonable and realistic projection, a level that would be somewhat disappointing if he didn't reach. That being said what he's shown has made it reasonable to hope for much more (but not expect it).

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

It's almost like people don't read, and just run to conclusions. Granted, Lilly is younger than these guys, and patience is needed... let's see what he can do with more ice time, as a 19 year old to start the year.

The point being offense doesn't take a long time in the AHL to develop. Those are numbers to compare Lilly to, this coming year. For him to be in a similar to discussion with those above names, he should have similar type numbers. something like 0.65ppg +.

If you want to play the "reading" card, you'll notice only 2 of the guys you mentioned would be comparable next year. Some of those guys played another 2 years in juniors against younger, lesser competition before sniffing the pros. Again, you'd have to wait 2 + years for all but 2 of the guys you mentioned, assuming your intent is to actually compare how long it took for "elite" offensive players to put up numbers in the AHL?

 

[MrHeiskanen]

Really? The kid is one win away from the Calder Cup and you're gonna judge him on the U18's?

Didn't look particularly good in games 1 through 4. Got man handled and crunched way too often, plays pretty limited/sheltered minutes, not sure you should be bragging like he is a major contributor to them potentially winning the Calder Cup.

 

[Tonka]

TL is a project, we knew he was a high risk player, and right now he is playing like the offensive dman we imagined him to be. But give it a couple more years for the picture to become clearer.

 

[Atomos2]

Oh yes, single handed going to win the Calder Cup.... and yes, players get judged in competitions, no matter where they are, or when they are.

Against his peers, in multiple international competitions, he hasn't shown ELITE offense. Agree, or Disagree?

This is about ELITE offense, not whether he will be a good, or useful piece. But, his one point in five game in the Calder Cup finals, is somehow proof he is going to be ELITE OFFENSIVELY ... and people are beyond defensive about this Leafs prospect.

You know who else is going to win the Calder Cup? Chris Mueller, and at the age of 22, he's fifth in AHL playoff scoring. Surely going to be an ELITE OFFENSIVE All Star based on your logic.

You're right. Let's just go by the World Juniors. Remember how many points the Leafs 50 pt #1 defenceman got in that tournament? I guess the difference between 3 and 2 in the world juniors is the difference between 50 and whatever you think Liljegren's offensive ceiling is eh?

Didn't look particularly good in games 1 through 4. Got man handled and crunched way too often, plays pretty limited/sheltered minutes, not sure you should be bragging like he is a major contributor to them potentially winning the Calder Cup.

He was fine during the earlier games. Well positioned and made good passes. I was actually at game 1 and I left the game impressed with him. Save your worries for yourself. 68% possession in the Calder Cup Final shows he's crushing those sheltered minutes and when Dermott went down he stepped up and didn't back off, even with Texas' dirty captain who keeps cheapshotting Sparks and most of the Marlies D

 

[AuraSphere]

Liljegren plays sheltered minutes and he's no where near the reason Marlies are having so much success. But he's definetely looked good as an 18 year old playing in the AHL. It's evident that he just needs more confidence. I think he'll be a good one in a couple years time after playing a bigger role with the marlies

 

[LeafChief]

Didn't look particularly good in games 1 through 4. Got man handled and crunched way too often, plays pretty limited/sheltered minutes, not sure you should be bragging like he is a major contributor to them potentially winning the Calder Cup.

Right. Your username likely has nothing to do with this opinion.

"Not sure you should be bragging like he is a major contributor". Lol.



He looks very weak winning all of these puck battles.

 

[BrettHullsToe]

I was actually at game 1 and I left the game impressed with him.

So for you, one good shot off the post in the 3rd erases multiple defensive zone turnovers in the first two periods, so much so, that you could hear the exasperation in the Leafs announcer's voice as he says something like "...and another turnover by Liljegren"?

After all the hype he'd been getting, I was excited about being able to see him play finally, but was pretty unimpressed in the first few Finals games where he did some good in the offensive zone but had real problems in his own zone. Maybe it was just rust though, because he's been better in the last couple of games.

 

[AppsSyl]

Didn't look particularly good in games 1 through 4. Got man handled and crunched way too often, plays pretty limited/sheltered minutes, not sure you should be bragging like he is a major contributor to them potentially winning the Calder Cup.

You wouldn't be trying to down play Liljegren, because you favour Heiskanen would you?
Liljegren has done well this season and into the playoffs, including the finals. Hopefully he wins the Calder Cup tomorrow night to top off a very good D+1 season.