RD Helge Grans (2020, 35th, LAK; traded to PHI)

[Mark Edwards]

The description of Grans' defensive game in your scouting report seems to be completely at odds with the assessment by Draft Dynasty in his video. In DD's video he comes across as being extremely poor at gap control and pivotting, and also seems to lack IQ defensively with regards to positioning and timing. I certainly don't see a player who is "very good defensively", though with some good coaching he could possibly develop into more of a solid two-way Dman.

"Defensive Game
Grans is very good defensively. His strong lateral movement and good balance make him very hard to beat one-on-one. He maintains good gap control and if a forward gets himself into the wrong position, Grans can deliver a big hit. He stays disciplined though, as Grans does not get out of position looking for those hits. Grans is effective at cutting down passing lanes with his long stick and his size. He is also willing to put his body on the line to block shots. One area that will need to be improved though is that he can sometimes be inconsistent in moving the puck. He will make the occasional bad giveaway and needs to clean this up going forward. Grans battles hard on the boards and in front of the net. This is an area he can improve in as he gets stronger."

I think Yannick's exact quote was "pretty terrible" when he was talking about his defensive game. We pretty much agree. Some great tools but we don't see much of the thing we value most, the hockey iQ.

Yannick did a good job IMO - although I wouldn't draft him as high as he says he would. I coached D at the junior level and my experience both coaching and coaching against D like Grans was most struggle to progress enough defensively to play.

Not saying Grans can't make it, just think he has a lot of risk attached to him if taking him high. He still has a lot of work to do.

 

[Richard88]

I think Yannick's exact quote was "pretty terrible" when he was talking about his defensive game. We pretty much agree. Some great tools but we don't see much of the thing we value most, the hockey iQ.

Yannick did a good job IMO - although I wouldn't draft him as high as he says he would. I coached D at the junior level and my experience both coaching and coaching against D like Grans was most struggle to progress enough defensively to play.

Not saying Grans can't make it, just think he has a lot of risk attached to him if taking him high. He still has a lot of work to do.

Thanks for your input, I really appreciate you weighing in on the subject given your expertise.

I agree with your assessment completely. Whilst players can work on refining elements of their game, you can't teach IQ, and that is something that Grans seems to lack in a big way.

At RHD I'm much more a fan of picking players like Topi Niemela or Eamon Powell who might not have huge size but more than make up for with high IQ and having significantly less flaws in their game. Grans' size advantage is also rendered pretty useless compared to smaller players since he doesn't use it to his advantage much.

 

[57special]

Also think that IQ/judgement is critical for Dmen in particular. Their best tool, in many cases, is their brain. One of the reasons why O'Rourke appeals to me.

I don't like my wingers to be too smart...just want a bunch of aggressive attack dogs who are fast and won't quit.

 

[My3Sons]

Also think that IQ/judgement is critical for Dmen in particular. Their best tool, in many cases, is their brain. One of the reasons why O'Rourke appeals to me.

I don't like my wingers to be too smart...just want a bunch of aggressive attack dogs who are fast and won't quit.

Do you coach the LSU football defense?

 

[Steve Kournianos]

I dont think Grans has a low IQ. I just think he’s always looking to get rid of the puck and often puts his partner in a tough spot. Of course, it’s not always the case, but if I’m an opposing coach I pressure the heck out of him with a heavy forecheck. He does have the ability to process plays and make proper reads but it’s few and far between against tougher opponents. He’s definitely a project and CSB didnt do him favors by jumping him well ahead of peers who don’t have his deficiencies and can skate just as well.

 

[VictorLustig]

Disagree with most posts here. Grans is not perfect but very few 18 year olds are. One of the first things I look for in a defensive prospect is their ability on the offensive blue line. Difficult to learn and extremely valuable for future opportunities, PP time etc. That's where Grans really separates himself from a player like Wallinder.

I also don't agree with the IQ issues. Poor decisions with and without the puck from time to time is quite normal for a player that age, especially in bigger players where body coordination just isn't there yet. Seen a lot worse. There's a large grey area between "elite" and "poor" IQ and that's where I would place Grans. He also isn't just tall, he's big. Not a pretty skater but it works, size and reach helps there too. I like players with lot of room for improvement, Grans would be one of those.

 

[theslatcher]

I think Yannick's exact quote was "pretty terrible" when he was talking about his defensive game. We pretty much agree. Some great tools but we don't see much of the thing we value most, the hockey iQ.

Yannick did a good job IMO - although I wouldn't draft him as high as he says he would. I coached D at the junior level and my experience both coaching and coaching against D like Grans was most struggle to progress enough defensively to play.

Not saying Grans can't make it, just think he has a lot of risk attached to him if taking him high. He still has a lot of work to do.

Would you say Stützle has bad IQ, then? Their problems are pretty similar for me. But for Grans it's in the d-zone, and Tim it's in the o-zone: zoning in on the first play they see, and using their skating to make up for their mistakes. Grans also needs to become stronger to play certain scenarios against men that he tries to play, but, that's to be expected.

 

[Mark Edwards]

Disagree with most posts here. Grans is not perfect but very few 18 year olds are. One of the first things I look for in a defensive prospect is their ability on the offensive blue line. Difficult to learn and extremely valuable for future opportunities, PP time etc. That's where Grans really separates himself from a player like Wallinder.

I also don't agree with the IQ issues. Poor decisions with and without the puck from time to time is quite normal for a player that age, especially in bigger players where body coordination just isn't there yet. Seen a lot worse. There's a large grey area between "elite" and "poor" IQ and that's where I would place Grans. He also isn't just tall, he's big. Not a pretty skater but it works, size and reach helps there too. I like players with lot of room for improvement, Grans would be one of those.

"Poor decisions with and without the puck from time to time is quite normal for a player that age"

Agree with this but I don't want to draft those players too high.

I also like players with room to grow in their games but I want to have some reasonable confidence they will get there at some point.

Processing speed is an element we include in our hockey IQ rating and this is an area where we think he has some big struggles. In my experience both coaching and now scouting, I don't see too many players overcome this.

Would you say Stützle has bad IQ, then? Their problems are pretty similar for me. But for Grans it's in the d-zone, and Tim it's in the o-zone: zoning in on the first play they see, and using their skating to make up for their mistakes. Grans also needs to become stronger to play certain scenarios against men that he tries to play, but, that's to be expected.

No.

 

[Appleyard]

Scouting Report: Helge Grans - Smaht Scouting

 

[LastWordArmy]

Disagree with most posts here. Grans is not perfect but very few 18 year olds are. One of the first things I look for in a defensive prospect is their ability on the offensive blue line. Difficult to learn and extremely valuable for future opportunities, PP time etc. That's where Grans really separates himself from a player like Wallinder.

I also don't agree with the IQ issues. Poor decisions with and without the puck from time to time is quite normal for a player that age, especially in bigger players where body coordination just isn't there yet. Seen a lot worse. There's a large grey area between "elite" and "poor" IQ and that's where I would place Grans. He also isn't just tall, he's big. Not a pretty skater but it works, size and reach helps there too. I like players with lot of room for improvement, Grans would be one of those.

Moving the puck is certainly my biggest concern as he does make some bad decisions and giveaways. That is noted in our report.

Yes, in the video there are some highlights where he makes a mistake in pivoting or containment, but those didn't seem to be huge issues in our viewings of him. No defender is perfect at 18 and mistakes are made from time to time, but with his size and skating ability, I felt he was generally pretty good in one on one situations, both off the rush and defending down low in the zone.

 

[Goldenhands]

I dont even have Grans in my 2nd round. So lanky and terrible under pressure...

 

[Richard88]

I dont think Grans has a low IQ. I just think he’s always looking to get rid of the puck and often puts his partner in a tough spot. Of course, it’s not always the case, but if I’m an opposing coach I pressure the heck out of him with a heavy forecheck. He does have the ability to process plays and make proper reads but it’s few and far between against tougher opponents. He’s definitely a project and CSB didnt do him favors by jumping him well ahead of peers who don’t have his deficiencies and can skate just as well.

"Poor decisions with and without the puck from time to time is quite normal for a player that age"

Agree with this but I don't want to draft those players too high.

I also like players with room to grow in their games but I want to have some reasonable confidence they will get there at some point.

Processing speed is an element we include in our hockey IQ rating and this is an area where we think he has some big struggles. In my experience both coaching and now scouting, I don't see too many players overcome this.

No.

Moving the puck is certainly my biggest concern as he does make some bad decisions and giveaways. That is noted in our report.

Yes, in the video there are some highlights where he makes a mistake in pivoting or containment, but those didn't seem to be huge issues in our viewings of him. No defender is perfect at 18 and mistakes are made from time to time, but with his size and skating ability, I felt he was generally pretty good in one on one situations, both off the rush and defending down low in the zone.

In the Draft Dynasty video puck movement under pressure seems to be one of Grans' biggest strengths, and is in fact one of the first things highlighted as his best attribute. The way he 'scans' the ice before retrieving the puck to help him make a quick and efficient play is particularly good. Needless to say I'm surprised by the assertions in bold in the 3 posts above. To me Grans seems to process the game pretty well with the puck in his own zone.

That said, I completely agree that he struggles big-time with processing the game without the puck, both in the timing of when he steps up to make hits or interceptions, as well as with reads in the Dzone.

 

[Garl]

I dont even have Grans in my 2nd round. So lanky and terrible under pressure...

Which games he was terrible? SHL?

 

[Goldenhands]

Which games he was terrible? SHL?

There were games available on prospects shift to shift, but the website closed during the pandemy... I dont recall the date of the games, but it was this season in the SHL... Maybe you can find some games on youtube...

 

[Steve Kournianos]

In the Draft Dynasty video puck movement under pressure seems to be one of Grans' biggest strengths, and is in fact one of the first things highlighted as his best attribute. The way he 'scans' the ice before retrieving the puck to help him make a quick and efficient play is particularly good. Needless to say I'm surprised by the assertions in bold in the 3 posts above. To me Grans seems to process the game pretty well with the puck in his own zone.

That said, I completely agree that he struggles big-time with processing the game without the puck, both in the timing of when he steps up to make hits or interceptions, as well as with reads in the Dzone.

It’s too inconsistent, which I mentioned. I surveyed large chunks of Grans’s season beginning, middle, and end. Multiple examples of poor puck management and risky passes. Normally I give a mulligan if it’s isolated in one patch or a short tournament but Grans had this issue throughout. One game, ok. Two? Ok lets watch a third. Third game? It’s officially a trend and needs more scrutiny.

His SHL games were cleaner and safer to a degree but he didn’t play much. My concerns are from the J20 games where he wasn’t consistently reliable when trying to move the puck himself. Andrae, Wallinder, Johannesson, Persson, Loof, Johansson, and several others were far more noticeable and often cleaner when taking the puck up ice. Grand can do it but he didn’t do it enough.

 

[Garl]

There were games available on prospects shift to shift, but the website closed during the pandemy... I dont recall the date of the games, but it was this season in the SHL... Maybe you can find some games on youtube...

I mean, fine, but if it was SHL, then he is playing way above the level of his peers, who mostly play in J20 or even lower. Making it in SHL as a 17 yo defenseman is rare, most players who do it go in the first round

 

[Goldenhands]

I mean, fine, but if it was SHL, then he is playing way above the level of his peers, who mostly play in J20 or even lower. Making it in SHL as a 17 yo defenseman is rare, most players who do it go in the first round

Of course, all crédit on him for playing on a top men league so young... Only saying that the kid is extremmely raw and that Im mot a fan personally...

 

[theslatcher]

I dont even have Grans in my 2nd round. So lanky and terrible under pressure...

Odd criticism to make of a prospect unless the prospect in question skates like a giraffe.

 

[theslatcher]

Playing on the top pairing alongside Ollas Mattson in the pre-season game today.

 

[CycloneSweep]

At least points wise he is as good as Broberg is already and is a year younger.

 

[PuckProspects]

Pretty nice goal today for the U20 team.

 

[theslatcher]

Pretty nice goal today for the U20 team.

Another, better angle, at 1:17 in this video:

 

[DatDude44]

I just want to know if he's learned how to pivot from backwards to forwards

 

[Dion TheFluff]

played his 1st SHL game this season.
Did anyone catch it?
Curious to know how well he played

 

[funky]

This kid has me puzzled. To me he’s a project that could make your scouting staff look genius if he develops into what we think he may. Taken to early he may cost scouts their job if he busts. I like him. As a Kings fan with 3 2nd round picks I hope he is there and we take the chance. I also could see a team taking him mid first if they believe in him. Every draft there’s a few prospects that you keep track of no matter what team they go to. This is one of the kids this year that I will be following for the next half dozen years no matter what team he goes to. I hope the kids plays up to his potential.