Value of: RD David Savard

[John Mandalorian]

It's also fair to assume that a 21yo tall pmd drafted late in the 1st round has warts, nobody is denying that he does. How many NHL PMDs have warts ? Does that make them less valuables assets, less of an NHLer ? Nobody is expecting a perfect top pair D from Barron. But if he ends up a good 4th, we'll be happy. And he will have exceeeded expectations if he does. Expectations tied to a late 1st round pick.

Reposting this for reference (in case you missed the edit).

Rumor: - 2021-22 Trade Rumors and FA Part V: To Giroux or not to Giroux

The tricky thing with getting rid of EJ is that it only creates a one year window before that money has to go to Mackinnon. How do you spent that extra $5-6m in the offseason for just one year? Just trade someone for a draft pick. The same thing Tampa has done the last few off-seasons. If...

forums.hfboards.com

The thing you're not mentioning is that earlier in his draft year he was slotted to go much higher. He fell due to a health set back. So it's somewhat fair for people to hope he would be closer to that higher pick as long as he was past the health issue. Yes he missed time and so on, but at one point he wasnt "a late first".

So there was a big range in terms of what one might have expected from him. But even the optimum wouldnt mean there would be no warts.

 

[Chose]

Reposting this for reference (in case you missed the edit).

Rumor: - 2021-22 Trade Rumors and FA Part V: To Giroux or not to Giroux

The tricky thing with getting rid of EJ is that it only creates a one year window before that money has to go to Mackinnon. How do you spent that extra $5-6m in the offseason for just one year? Just trade someone for a draft pick. The same thing Tampa has done the last few off-seasons. If...

forums.hfboards.com

The thing you're not mentioning is that earlier in his draft year he was slotted to go much higher. He fell due to a health set back. So it's somewhat fair for people to hope he would be closer to that higher pick as long as he was past the health issue. Yes he missed time and so on, but at one point he wasnt "a late first".

So there was a big range in terms of what one might have expected from him. But even the optimum wouldnt mean there would be no warts.

Where he was slotted to go before his draft is even more meaningless than his draft position. How is that relevant ?
The question you did not answer is "At the time of the trade, was he perceived to have less chances than a late first round pick to make the NHL ?". That's the question that answers if he was still worth a late first round pick value at the time of the trade. Not even mentionning that a 2nd round pick was added to him to get Lekhonen.
Again, warts are expected on a 21yo tall pmd...
And you are right, being a RHD does add value.
Conclusion: he was still valued at around a late 1st pick at the time of the trade.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Where he was slotted to go before his draft is even more meaningless than his draft position. How is that relevant ?
The question you did not answer is "At the time of the trade, was he perceived to have less chances than a late first round pick to make the NHL ?". That's the question that answers if he was still worth a late first round pick value at the time of the trade. Not even mentionning that a 2nd round pick was added to him to get Lekhonen.

My answer is that maybe the Habs saw him as a first but given his positional value, maybe the Avs did not. I can't know this 100% anymore than you can - or vice versa. But the default assumption that the Avs valued him according to his draft position is just as erroneous as the opposite.

 

[The Great Weal]

Where he was slotted to go before his draft is even more meaningless than his draft position. How is that relevant ?
The question you did not answer is "At the time of the trade, was he perceived to have less chances than a late first round pick to make the NHL ?". That's the question that answers if he was still worth a late first round pick value at the time of the trade. Not even mentionning that a 2nd round pick was added to him to get Lekhonen.
Again, warts are expected on a 21yo tall pmd...
And you are right, being a RHD does add value.
Conclusion: he was still valued at around a late 1st pick at the time of the trade.

Not to mention that the Avs still valued him a good bit considering they were unwilling to trade him for someone that they knew they couldn't resign.



That's not something you say about a player you don't really care about losing.

Also not sure why a player's d+2 value is considered the same as his d+4 value to some posters, it is a very drastic difference. Barron lost a ton of value since the trade.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Is Chiarot still a benchmark after what Tanev returned?

Don’t need to be. Habs can sit this one out if they don’t like the return. They set their own price

 

[viceroy]

Too late. The Habs have already reserved all of the prime tee times.

You are aware the Habs are rebuilding right? I mean you probably don't follow hockey closely so you wouldn't be aware that that isn't really a burn to Habs fans.

It's also fair to assume that a 21yo tall pmd drafted late in the 1st round has warts, nobody is denying that he does. How many NHL PMDs have warts ? Does that make them less valuables assets, less of an NHLer ? Nobody is expecting a perfect top pair D from Barron.

I think some people on here think the Avs had given up on Barron so he was just some throw in and shouldn't be assessed in Lekhonen's value. What they fail to understand is that COL was a legit Cup contender. They didn't have the time to wait for Barron to mature for another 2-3 years. Their Cup window was open and they were smart enough to understand that Lekhs was ready. A 2nd and a recent 1st round project pick was a fair price to pay for a Cup.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Don’t need to be. Habs can sit this one out if they don’t like the return. They set their own price

Right. Theres a distinction between price and value, however.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Right. Theres a distinction between price and value, however.

But if someone meet that price then it also means he was valued as such by at least one party, which should be enough, no?

If not, then he finish the year in Montreal and we start over again next year.

 

[CDN24]

i think a few teams would be interested in Savard at 50% but if all he gets is a 2nd i rather keep him for our youngsters hes loved here and wants to stay here

Using a retention over 2 years is probably worth close to second on its own. If you look at the series of trades around Petry, Hughes reacquired him knowing he would burn a 2yr retention spot to get rid of him. Lots of other noises in the trade and related trades but.

Mtl gives up Hoffman, Pitlick and 2 yrs of retention for a 2nd, a 3rd, a 4th and Pearson. The only thing of value they gave up is the retention slot and the only thing of value they got was the picks. Hence the retention slot over 2 yrs is worth the picks.

 

[HuGort]

Using a retention over 2 years is probably worth close to second on its own. If you look at the series of trades around Petry, Hughes reacquired him knowing he would burn a 2yr retention spot to get rid of him. Lots of other noises in the trade and related trades but.

Mtl gives up Hoffman, Pitlick and 2 yrs of retention for a 2nd, a 3rd, a 4th and Pearson. The only thing of value they gave up is the retention slot and the only thing of value they got was the picks. Hence the retention slot over 2 yrs is worth the picks.

Was Pearson in that deal?

 

[Chose]

Using a retention over 2 years is probably worth close to second on its own. If you look at the series of trades around Petry, Hughes reacquired him knowing he would burn a 2yr retention spot to get rid of him. Lots of other noises in the trade and related trades but.

Mtl gives up Hoffman, Pitlick and 2 yrs of retention for a 2nd, a 3rd, a 4th and Pearson. The only thing of value they gave up is the retention slot and the only thing of value they got was the picks. Hence the retention slot over 2 yrs is worth the picks.

Value forgotten in your analysis: Getting rid of Hoffman & Pitlick. Getting rid of Hoffman alone, with his 4.5M$ caphit was worth a lot.

There isn't much real money left on this year's salary, and 25% third party retention on second year is 875k$. So maybe a little more than 1M$ over two years for the 3rd team. That is probably around 3rd pick value.

 

[Chose]

Was Pearson in that deal?

The 3rd & Pearson came from DeSmith being traded to VAN on a side deal.
It was said by Hugues at that time that the 3rd was to cover for the difference between DeSmith & Pearson's salary. (1 450 000$/1y)

 

[Chose]

So it would go something like this:

Montreal: Leafs' 2024 1st round pick & 50% of Savard's salary (1.75M$ for 2y)
Leafs: Savard (75% retained, 875k$)
Arizona: Leaf's 2024 3rd rnd pick & 25% of Savard's salary for 2 years (875k$)

Insert prospect to allow the 3 team swap.
Gio to Robidas Island.

 

[CDN24]

Was Pearson in that deal?

Got Pearson and the 3rd for Desmith who was in the deal

 

[pth2]

So it would go something like this:

Montreal: Leafs' 2024 1st round pick & 50% of Savard's salary (1.75M$ for 2y)
Leafs: Savard (75% retained, 875k$)
Arizona: Leaf's 2024 3rd rnd pick & 25% of Savard's salary for 2 years (875k$)

Insert prospect to allow the 3 team swap.
Gio to Robidas Island.

That could actually work, though I don't know if Arizona is the right team to act as intermediary; there are 29 other teams so I figure one of them would take that "free" 3d rounder.

 

[Chose]

That could actually work, though I don't know if Arizona is the right team to act as intermediary; there are 29 other teams so I figure one of them would take that "free" 3d rounder.

Exactly, Arizona was mentionned just to provide an example, but for a free 3rd, I am guessing a few teams would line up...

 

[Zonk]

You are aware the Habs are rebuilding right? I mean you probably don't follow hockey closely so you wouldn't be aware that that isn't really a burn to Habs fans.

I am shocked, shocked, to learn that the Habs are rebuilding. I thought that every player on their roster was worth, at a minimum, at least one first round draft choice. (You must be new to Hockeys Future; read some of the post from your fellow Habs fans..)

you tube casablanca i am shocked that there is gambling - Google Suche

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[The Don Hughes]

So it would go something like this:

Montreal: Leafs' 2024 1st round pick & 50% of Savard's salary (1.75M$ for 2y)
Leafs: Savard (75% retained, 875k$)
Arizona: Leaf's 2024 3rd rnd pick & 25% of Savard's salary for 2 years (875k$)

Insert prospect to allow the 3 team swap.
Gio to Robidas Island.

I'd honestly prefer

So it would go something like this:

Montreal: Leafs' 2024 1st round pick & 50% of Savard's salary (1.75M$ for 2y)
Leafs: Savard (75% retained, 875k$)
Arizona: Leaf's 2024 3rd rnd pick & 25% of Savard's salary for 2 years (875k$)

Insert prospect to allow the 3 team swap.
Gio to Robidas Island.

IMO I'd rather keep Savard than trading him away 50% retained to the Leafs. He brings a valuable experience to the young D group.

 

[habsterr]

I'd honestly prefer

IMO I'd rather keep Savard than trading him away 50% retained to the Leafs. He brings a valuable experience to the young D group.

Id much rather the 1st rounder over Savard. Let the youth play big minutes this year, if need be sign/trade for a vet in the offseason.

 

[The Don Hughes]

Id much rather the 1st rounder over Savard. Let the youth play big minutes this year, if need be sign/trade for a vet in the offseason.

We need to trade some lefties. Savard on the right can stay for a bit. I don't mind a 1st for him, just not in Toronto. They can keep suffering.

 

[Miller Time]

Where he was slotted to go before his draft is even more meaningless than his draft position. How is that relevant ?
The question you did not answer is "At the time of the trade, was he perceived to have less chances than a late first round pick to make the NHL ?". That's the question that answers if he was still worth a late first round pick value at the time of the trade. Not even mentionning that a 2nd round pick was added to him to get Lekhonen.
Again, warts are expected on a 21yo tall pmd...
And you are right, being a RHD does add value.
Conclusion: he was still valued at around a late 1st pick at the time of the trade.

This is so obvious to the point of being silly and disingenuous for anyone to argue otherwise.

 

[viceroy]

I am shocked, shocked, to learn that the Habs are rebuilding. I thought that every player on their roster was worth, at a minimum, at least one first round draft choice. (Another predictable potshot at Habs fans.)

Hey amigo, welcome to Hockey 101. Today's lesson is that just because a team is rebuilding like MTL or generally sucking like OTT or going through growing pains like the Devils doesn't mean their entire roster sucks.

Case in point the bottom 8 teams in the NHL. Those teams may have cratered but I'd argue that every one of those teams has at least one player worth a 1st. Now I'm not asking YOU to name 'em since you're obviously new to the sport but trust me there are.

That is all.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Not to mention that the Avs still valued him a good bit considering they were unwilling to trade him for someone that they knew they couldn't resign.



That's not something you say about a player you don't really care about losing.

Also not sure why a player's d+2 value is considered the same as his d+4 value to some posters, it is a very drastic difference. Barron lost a ton of value since the trade.

As if Sakic was going to put him on blast on his way out the door. Nice job. LOL.

 

[John Mandalorian]

So it would go something like this:

Montreal: Leafs' 2024 1st round pick & 50% of Savard's salary (1.75M$ for 2y)
Leafs: Savard (75% retained, 875k$)
Arizona: Leaf's 2024 3rd rnd pick & 25% of Savard's salary for 2 years (875k$)

Insert prospect to allow the 3 team swap.
Gio to Robidas Island.

Interesting comment now that the dust is settling. If Montreal retained as it did for a delayed 2nd/3rd on Allen, you’re probably right about Montreal doing the same for Savard if a first was on the table.

Would have thought he’d easily get a first easily if Montreal retained as you’re saying and similarly to what they did for Allen.

Maybe Hughes thinks he should get a 1st without retention. But after Tanev, maybe that offer never materialized? Didn’t Seravelli report that the asking price for Savard was/is a 1st?

 

[Djp]

So it would go something like this:

Montreal: Leafs' 2024 1st round pick & 50% of Savard's salary (1.75M$ for 2y)
Leafs: Savard (75% retained, 875k$)
Arizona: Leaf's 2024 3rd rnd pick & 25% of Savard's salary for 2 years (875k$)

Insert prospect to allow the 3 team swap.
Gio to Robidas Island.

In real dollars AZ would be paying $1M. That costs a 1st easily.

If he was just a rental 25% would mean about $250K which wou lo d be a late 3rd.