RD Axel Sandin Pellikka - Skellefteå, SHL (2023, 17th, DET)

[schuelma24]

The guy I responded to wrote: “He (ASP) will absolutely never be a top pairing defenseman in the NHL because he will never dethrone Seider off the top pairing, unless he is the second coming of Bobby Orr. So yeah, that will never happen”.

Gawd, I’d love this site if more people were like @Gazewithin

do you know what hyperbole is? Do you actually think the poster was saying Seider is better than Bobby Orr?

 

[RedHawkDown]

Bobby Orr? That’s the only “level of player” that can dethrone Seider? Holy overrating, Batman, know I can see where all this overrating is coming from.

The other person you responded to has the most level-headed approach to this prospect.

I mean, that’s obviously not what i said or meant. You’re not discussing in good faith whatsoever here.

The point was just that he will not play on the top pairing because we already have Seider there, unless he became much, much better than Seider, which is exceedingly unlikely, as Seider is a top 15ish NHL defenseman. It’s using hyperbole to make a point.

But if arguing with logical fallacies gets you going, go for it.

 

[Hallonbroder]

do you know what hyperbole is? Do you actually think the poster was saying Seider is better than Bobby Orr?

…. Incredible.

I mean, that’s obviously not what i said or meant. You’re not discussing in good faith whatsoever here.

The point was just that he will not play on the top pairing because we already have Seider there, unless he became much, much better than Seider, which is exceedingly unlikely, as Seider is a top 15ish NHL defenseman. It’s using hyperbole to make a point.

But if arguing with logical fallacies gets you going, go for it.

Just… continue moving goalposts around. Have fun.

 

[RedHawkDown]

…. Incredible.


Just… continue moving goalposts around. Have fun.

So you are in fact not arguing in good faith whatsoever. Cool.

 

[Lampedampe]

Point is I don't care that he is out producing his peers. He was one of the oldest and experienced players at WJC and most of his "out producing" was in the round robin games.

He made low probability decisions with the puck and I was looking for more. Cole Hutson was way better than him in the O zone.

Sometimes I wonder if Americans think that Europeans players that are not in NA, just sit in a small cottage and skate on a lake all while waiting for that 1 time in a year when they get to play civilised hockey. Also known as the WJC.

 

[Oak]

Sometimes I wonder if Americans think that Europeans players that are not in NA, just sit in a small cottage and skate on a lake all while waiting for that 1 time in a year when they get to play civilised hockey. Also known as the WJC.

You have to explain what you are talking about to this dumb Murican. Sarcasm and arrogance can come across strangely sometimes.

If you are suggesting he is excellent playing in Swedish league I have no reason to deny that. Point is we are talking about performance in othe WJC and I think it is ok to judge a player on his tournament performance alone.

It would be stupid for me to think that he is not capable of more, and I do think he is, but I am talking about WJC performance when I post here.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

When one person says “the only one who can dethrone Seider would be Bobby Orr!”, this whole “we don’t think too highly of him”-charade fall’s apart

Calling somebody overrated because of one statement that was an obvious exaggeration is a you problem lol.

The nice benefit of Hfboards is we can critique the best players for fun. If you are satisfied with his game so be it. Some of us have the ability to see beyond points and players just being ok.

I don't have a problem with you critiquing a player.

It's just that your critiquing is very clearly disproven statistically.

 

[Lampedampe]

You have to explain what you are talking about to this dumb Murican. Sarcasm and arrogance can come across strangely sometimes.

If you are suggesting he is excellent playing in Swedish league I have no reason to deny that. Point is we are talking about performance in othe WJC and I think it is ok to judge a player on his tournament performance alone.

It would be stupid for me to think that he is not capable of more, and I do think he is, but I am talking about WJC performance when I post here.

I just think it's funny that you qualified your dismissal with "most of his out-producing was in round robin". Yeah if you wanna look at a sample size of 6 games over 2 years, sure.

I'd rather look at his entire season, league play and whole tournaments. It becomes quite evident how much he's out-producing his peers quite heavily.

He's arguably done better in league play than in WJC, but still won best defenseman.

Before someone accuses me of expecting Fox 2.0 from ASP, I'm expecting a 2/3#D, 1st ppqb. In terms of comparison, I like Zidlicky that someone mentioned on our board. He's a tough prospect to rank because he's achieved so much and done so well that you gotta rank him high. But i still agree with some posters that I don't think he's got the tools for becoming an elite defenseman in NHL.

 

[HisNoodliness]

I just think it's funny that you qualified your dismissal with "most of his out-producing was in round robin". Yeah if you wanna look at a sample size of 6 games over 2 years, sure.

I'd rather look at his entire season, league play and whole tournaments. It becomes quite evident how much he's out-producing his peers quite heavily.

He's arguably done better in league play than in WJC, but still won best defenseman.

Before someone accuses me of expecting Fox 2.0 from ASP, I'm expecting a 2/3#D, 1st ppqb. In terms of comparison, I like Zidlicky that someone mentioned on our board. He's a tough prospect to rank because he's achieved so much and done so well that you gotta rank him high. But i still agree with some posters that I don't think he's got the tools for becoming an elite defenseman in NHL.

The thing is is that if you gave me a literal clone of 18 year old Makar, Hughes, Fox, whoever, even knowing that they're identical to the guys that have gone on to be superstars, I would still bet that they're more likely to end up as that 2nd/3rd line + PPQB guy than the superstars that they turned into. You're always more likely to be right playing it safe with a projection like that.

Personally, I think ASP has every tool that he needs to be one of the elite offensive defenseman in the NHL. Is he as good at skating as Makar or Hughes as prospects? Nope, they were truly special in that regard. But ASP's shot, physical play and positioning (both offensively and defensively) are better. Fox was the worst prospect of the four, being less physically developed and, similar to ASP, more of a shifty, agile skater with only decent speed (instead of the truly elite at every facet skating of Makar and Hughes). All of them had great hands and vision at this age.

For every Makar, Hughes or Fox, there's a hundred Zidlickys, Deangelos and Boqvists. Guys that were good, maybe even great sometimes. But never could put that dominant game together in the NHL. Just by the nature of player development, ASP is way more likely to be one of the ones that fizzles or tops out as a decent, but not elite player. You should never expect anyone to turn into Fox 2.0, including Fox 1.0. By that same token though, I think anyone watching ASP's play and nit-picking it to put a ceiling on him is crazy. You could have done that with Makar- "those moves won't work outside the AJHL when he has to play against guys that can skate," or Hughes, "he's too small and light to be effective," or Fox, "He doesn't have the speed or flash to play his game at his size in the NHL." To my eye, ASP has every tool to be one of those truly elite offensive defenseman someday if his development goes perfectly- like theirs did.

 

[Lampedampe]

The thing is is that if you gave me a literal clone of 18 year old Makar, Hughes, Fox, whoever, even knowing that they're identical to the guys that have gone on to be superstars, I would still bet that they're more likely to end up as that 2nd/3rd line + PPQB guy than the superstars that they turned into. You're always more likely to be right playing it safe with a projection like that.

Personally, I think ASP has every tool that he needs to be one of the elite offensive defenseman in the NHL. Is he as good at skating as Makar or Hughes as prospects? Nope, they were truly special in that regard. But ASP's shot, physical play and positioning (both offensively and defensively) are better. Fox was the worst prospect of the four, being less physically developed and, similar to ASP, more of a shifty, agile skater with only decent speed (instead of the truly elite at every facet skating of Makar and Hughes). All of them had great hands and vision at this age.

For every Makar, Hughes or Fox, there's a hundred Zidlickys, Deangelos and Boqvists. Guys that were good, maybe even great sometimes. But never could put that dominant game together in the NHL. Just by the nature of player development, ASP is way more likely to be one of the ones that fizzles or tops out as a decent, but not elite player. You should never expect anyone to turn into Fox 2.0, including Fox 1.0. By that same token though, I think anyone watching ASP's play and nit-picking it to put a ceiling on him is crazy. You could have done that with Makar- "those moves won't work outside the AJHL when he has to play against guys that can skate," or Hughes, "he's too small and light to be effective," or Fox, "He doesn't have the speed or flash to play his game at his size in the NHL." To my eye, ASP has every tool to be one of those truly elite offensive defenseman someday if his development goes perfectly- like theirs did.

Generally i agree, i don't put his ceiling as 2/3#D (not 2nd/3rd line btw). I just think it's more likely that he becomes that though.

Partly because whenever i watch him i just don't see any truly elite abilites, outside of his shot perhaphs, but on the flip side i'd say he has a way more complete game than people give him credit for. With Quinn Hughes i'd say his elite abilites were apparant from the start, but there was always doubt about his size.

Maybe a controversial one, but for example whenever i watch Edvinsson i do see some truly elite abilites. Size is one thing, but his skating in combination with the size is an elite combo, that paired with elite vision. He'll need time to fill out his frame and improve his balance, but once he does i can definetly see an elite player.

That's all from just watching and subjectively evaluting these things and it goes without saying that i could be dead wrong.

 

[Pavels Dog]

He made low probability decisions with the puck and I was looking for more. Cole Hutson was way better than him in the O zone.

Hutson played on a far better team. If you switch their teams I don't think Hutson would have been half as impactful.

I gotta say arguing with homer Swedes is tough. You guys are worse than the 6u hockey dads. Your player is always right!

Are the "homer swedes" in the room with us now? Are they the ones that named ASP the best d-man of the tournament?

I was frustrated with ASP at times. I was frustrated with Unger Sörum, Edstrom, Stenberg, Willander, Lindstein and other players far more often. No doubt in my mind that ASP is being criticized only because he was being hyper-analyzed.