RD Axel Sandin Pellikka - Skellefteå, SHL (2023, 17th, DET)

[Pavels Dog]

I haven't watched him play this season outside of WJC. Maybe he was trying to do too much alone since he was Captain, had previous experience, and wanted to look good, but a lot of his shot selections were low IQ plays.

Overall in the dzone and on breakout he seemed like a high IQ player with good passing, he just didn't use his team enough in the O zone. If more shots went in this criticism would have probably been overlooked, but I think I heard them saying he had the most shot attempts of any D in WJC. I wonder what his scoring percentage was, bc he it definitely wasn't high compared to shots taken.

It's poor analysis because making the safe/smart play isn't low IQ. It's likely that your expectations were off because ASP clearly played within Sweden's designed strategy. He had the most goals out of any d-man in the tournament, and the second most assists.

The way some of you are talking about him makes it sound like he left the tournament with 1 point in 7 games and a -10 rating, not one of the best ever tournaments by a d-man.

ASP would be end up closer to 50 than top 5 on my hypothetical list but I don’t have an exact number in mind.

That is simply hilarious.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Psst. You can not think ASP is Quinn Hughes 2.0 and also concede that he's a very good prospect who will likely have some very good, productive seasons in the NHL.

... All while realizing that he would have to be one of the best defenders in the NHL for Detroit to ever push him to top pairing defensive assignments over Seider. So it doesn't really matter if he can't shut down McDavid.

 

[Oak]

It's poor analysis because making the safe/smart play isn't low IQ. It's likely that your expectations were off because ASP clearly played within Sweden's designed strategy. He had the most goals out of any d-man in the tournament, and the second most assists.

The way some of you are talking about him makes it sound like he left the tournament with 1 point in 7 games and a -10 rating, not one of the best ever tournaments by a d-man.


That is simply hilarious.

You're misunderstanding my comment. It's not the safe play I'm looking for. I am looking for him to keep the puck alive in the O Zone to set something up instead of taking a low percentage shot into traffic. He had lanes for a pass every time he took a low percentage shot because I was watching this closely after I first noticed it.

Also regarding points who cares what he did against bottom feeder teams that were destroyed. His games against real competition are what matters.

 

[izlez]

You're misunderstanding my comment. It's not the safe play I'm looking for. I am looking for him to keep the puck alive in the O Zone to set something up instead of taking a low percentage shot into traffic. He had lanes for a pass every time he took a low percentage shot because I was watching this closely after I first noticed it.

Also regarding points who cares what he did against bottom feeder teams that were destroyed. His games against real competition are what matters.

If these low-IQ, low percentage shots end up in the back of the net often enough for him to be putting up numbers at an incredible pace, at what point do you question your own evaluations and knowledge?

I get there being push back on him. We're just out of the WJC. All players who do well in that are overhyped for a period of time every year. His biggest fans are hyped up and pumping his tires... give it a week.

And for what it's worth: Most Red Wings fans view him as a nice additional piece to Seider/Edvinsson who can run a powerplay and generate offense. The person calling him "most overhyped" used Shattenkirk as a comparison for his expectations. Shattenkirk has played 952 NHL games and had several seasons scoring at a 50-60 point pace. We pretty much all agree

 

[Pavels Dog]

You're misunderstanding my comment. It's not the safe play I'm looking for. I am looking for him to keep the puck alive in the O Zone to set something up instead of taking a low percentage shot into traffic. He had lanes for a pass every time he took a low percentage shot because I was watching this closely after I first noticed it.

I guess I would agree to disagree. Again I'm just hearing a hyper-fixation on ASP. Did he shoot the puck into traffic at times? Sure. Did everyone else on the swedish blueline? Yes. Did ASP have the most shots actually go through traffic, into the net, as well as making the most high IQ plays? Also yes.

What you're doing is kind of like looking at giveaway stats to reach the conclusion that Mackinnon is somehow bad. Instead of understanding that he has a lot of giveaways because he has the puck a lot and attempts a ton of plays with it.

Also regarding points who cares what he did against bottom feeder teams that were destroyed. His games against real competition are what matters.

Just sounds like you didn't really watch the tournament tbh. ASP didn't even have any points in the one game that Sweden "destroyed" an opponent.

 

[Oak]

I gotta say arguing with homer Swedes is tough. You guys are worse than the 6u hockey dads. Your player is always right!

This is an online forum to discuss, so I don't really care if you understand my perception. We'll see in a few years what he does.

Mark this quote so we can come back to it and disagree some more. ASP will NEVER be a top pairing or PP1 player in the NHL.

 

[Gazewithin]

A lot of cringeworthy posts both directions here.

ASP is doing very well in the SHL, and he was very good at the world juniors, which you can kind of expect by extension. It's straight up 2 or 3 steps down in competition. Things are going great for a player I did not have that high opinion of 3 years ago or so. I'm guessing he will land between a solid to very good defenceman at the NHL in the end.

On the other side, I have a hard time foreseeing how his game translates to the NHL. Maybe I haven't stayed up enough to watch enough games the last few years, but I honestly can't think of a player that is overtly similar to him. That doesn't have to be a bad thing, but to me there is a great deal of unknown when it comes to him.

To expect or have high hopes of him becoming a Hughes or Makar level offensive dman is insane. Don't put those expectations on him and then be dissapointed or act like he let anyone down. He will not be a savior, but he can be part of the solution.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I gotta say arguing with homer Swedes is tough. You guys are worse than the 6u hockey dads. Your player is always right!

This is an online forum to discuss, so I don't really care if you understand my perception. We'll see in a few years what he does.

Mark this quote so we can come back to it and disagree some more. ASP will NEVER be a top pairing or PP1 player in the NHL.

He will absolutely never be a top pairing defenseman in the NHL because he will never dethrone Seider off the top pairing, unless he is the second coming of Bobby Orr. So yeah, that will never happen.

He absolutely will get every chance to run PP1, and everything so far shows that he has the ability to succeed at it. So that we can argue about.

A lot of cringeworthy posts both directions here.

ASP is doing very well in the SHL, and he was very good at the world juniors, which you can kind of expect by extension. It's straight up 2 or 3 steps down in competition. Things are going great for a player I did not have that high opinion of 3 years ago or so. I'm guessing he will land between a solid to very good defenceman at the NHL in the end.

On the other side, I have a hard time foreseeing how his game translates to the NHL. Maybe I haven't stayed up enough to watch enough games the last few years, but I honestly can't think of a player that is overtly similar to him. That doesn't have to be a bad thing, but to me there is a great deal of unknown when it comes to him.

To expect or have high hopes of him becoming a Hughes or Makar level offensive dman is insane. Don't put those expectations on him and then be dissapointed or act like he let anyone down. He will not be a savior, but he can be part of the solution.

He plays very similar to Sergei Zubov. He isn't Makar or Hughes because he doesn't have their skating ability. On the other hand, he is a lot better defensively than those two were at the same age, though they've obviously improved significantly in the NHL.

Nobody is expecting him to become Hughes or Makar. All we are saying is he has the potential to be a top tier offensive dman given that he has shattered all expectations of him thus far.

I have trouble understanding how people can argue against that. What else could a player possibly do to be discussed as having the potential? Is it an expectation? No, absolutely not. But does he have the potential? Yes, though it's very unlikely he gets there. If he doesn't have the potential to be the next top tier offensive dman, then who does? There is no defenseman outside of the NHL who has put up better stats since being drafted than ASP.

What are we expecting? Probably a Shattenkirk level guy, as someone else mentioned. What are we praying/hoping for? Obviously best case.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I gotta say arguing with homer Swedes is tough. You guys are worse than the 6u hockey dads. Your player is always right!

This is an online forum to discuss, so I don't really care if you understand my perception. We'll see in a few years what he does.

Mark this quote so we can come back to it and disagree some more. ASP will NEVER be a top pairing or PP1 player in the NHL.

When your argument is "His offensive instincts are poor and he's killing possessions" while he consistently outproduces his peers at record pace, yeah... You shouldn't be surprised that you're having a hard time arguing.

 

[Gazewithin]

Nobody is expecting him to become Hughes or Makar. All we are saying is he has the potential to be a top tier offensive dman given that he has shattered all expectations of him thus far.

Are we really going to pretend like there isn't a significant group of people who are propping him up to be something he by any likely scenario won't live up to?

At what point do we accept that he's a top 5 player outside of the NHL? He's dominating the SHL as well. I've watched every WJC game so far and he's been dominant and also good defensively.

Can anyone tell me why we shouldn't be expecting Makar/Hughes/Fox levels of play from this kid? Yes he's not as fast of a skater as the first 2 but has a better shot than both.

Less than 2 weeks ago. Mind you, you could not even settle for top 5 "prospect" outside of the NHL, but PLAYER. Absolutely insane.

100% that you are going to say that you were "merely asking the question" and "I said levels of play, not the same level of player", but this is a very good example of what I meant with my post. We're playing dumb semantics if we are pretending that this is not building a young player up to insane expectations.

What are we expecting? Probably a Shattenkirk level guy, as someone else mentioned. What are we praying/hoping for? Obviously best case.

Then compare him to players on Shattenkirks level, if that is actually what you think.

I have trouble understanding how people can argue against that. What else could a player possibly do to be discussed as having the potential? Is it an expectation? No, absolutely not. But does he have the potential? Yes, though it's very unlikely he gets there. If he doesn't have the potential to be the next top tier offensive dman, then who does? There is no defenseman outside of the NHL who has put up better stats since being drafted than ASP.

What else? Maybe be discussed moreso on what he is likely to become? We can hope all we want, but to pass these discussion of as they are only some imaginative fantasy and there's no implications of what to expect in reality is faceitous.

Potential does not really mean anything with this usage. There's a lot of player with potential. I can that Ivar Stenberg has so far surpassed my expectations every year, am I being reasonable by saying "Can anyone tell me we shouldn't be expecting Kucherov and Kaprizov levels of play from this kid?" He might have the potential. Doesn't make it reasonable in the slightest.
There's always going to be at least one, if multiple defenceman you can argue is the next best defenceman. they usually don't become Cale Makar or Quinn Hughes.
You are getting worked up because this is your guy. Nothing I originally said was controversial or offbase in the slightest, lets be real.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Last page or so has been a whole lot of "He's so overrated, Wings fans think he's gonna be a top pairing guy!" even though Wings fans have quite literally said he'll never usurp Seider and will be relied on for offensive and PP assignments...

 

[Oak]

When your argument is "His offensive instincts are poor and he's killing possessions" while he consistently outproduces his peers at record pace, yeah... You shouldn't be surprised that you're having a hard time arguing.

Point is I don't care that he is out producing his peers. He was one of the oldest and experienced players at WJC and most of his "out producing" was in the round robin games.

He made low probability decisions with the puck and I was looking for more. Cole Hutson was way better than him in the O zone.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Last page or so has been a whole lot of "He's so overrated, Wings fans think he's gonna be a top pairing guy!" even though Wings fans have quite literally said he'll never usurp Seider and will be relied on for offensive and PP assignments...

It’s jealousy

 

[RedHawkDown]

Are we really going to pretend like there isn't a significant group of people who are propping him up to be something he by any likely scenario won't live up to?



Less than 2 weeks ago. Mind you, you could not even settle for top 5 "prospect" outside of the NHL, but PLAYER. Absolutely insane.

100% that you are going to say that you were "merely asking the question" and "I said levels of play, not the same level of player", but this is a very good example of what I meant with my post. We're playing dumb semantics if we are pretending that this is not building a young player up to insane expectations.


Then compare him to players on Shattenkirks level, if that is actually what you think.

What else? Maybe be discussed moreso on what he is likely to become? We can hope all we want, but to pass these discussion of as they are only some imaginative fantasy and there's no implications of what to expect in reality is faceitous.

Potential does not really mean anything with this usage. There's a lot of player with potential. I can that Ivar Stenberg has so far surpassed my expectations every year, am I being reasonable by saying "Can anyone tell me we shouldn't be expecting Kucherov and Kaprizov levels of play from this kid?" He might have the potential. Doesn't make it reasonable in the slightest.
There's always going to be at least one, if multiple defenceman you can argue is the next best defenceman. they usually don't become Cale Makar or Quinn Hughes.
You are getting worked up because this is your guy. Nothing I originally said was controversial or offbase in the slightest, lets be real.

I admit I used the wrong phrasing and should have said potential instead of levels of play. That’s hyperbole for sure. But I absolutely maintain he has that potential.

And yes, I would say he’s a top 5 player outside of the NHL. Hes the top scoring defenseman in the SHL and will likely win defender of the year in that league. Can you indicate what your list is?

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Point is I don't care that he is out producing his peers. He was one of the oldest and experienced players at WJC and most of his "out producing" was in the round robin games.

He made low probability decisions with the puck and I was looking for more. Cole Hutson was way better than him in the O zone.

"I don't care that he puts up better offensive numbers, he sucks offensively!"

 

[newfy]

Are we really going to pretend like there isn't a significant group of people who are propping him up to be something he by any likely scenario won't live up to?

Lol what significant group exactly? I don't think there's a significant group of guys saying he's going to be a Hughes or Makar level player. IF you were going to talk about a prospect out there that could reach that level of offensive dman, it would be ASP though. He's one of the best defensive prospects in the league, no one is going to discuss him being like Kevin Shattenkirk when the potential is obviously there to be more than that. If he ended up like prime Shattenkirk that would actually be a really good pick for the record.

But given all of his accolades, awards, historic production, draft pedigree, international success etc etc..... if you're not allowed to discuss him being a potential first pair, star dman then you literally cant discuss it about anyone.

Basically no prospects live up to a Makar/Hughes type player but if you were going to discuss a prospect right now that could be a top offensive dman in the NHL, ASP is the guy. Otherwise shut HF down, there's no point

Its like when Seider got comparisons to Weber and everyone said oh that's so unlikely. Cool, but if you were going to talk about a prospect hitting a level like that, Seider was the guy to do it about and now even if he isn't Weber, it doesn't seem ridiculous that that name was thrown around at all.

And for all the talk about ASPs offence being "questionable" in the WJC this year, no one seems to want to touch on the fact that he was an absolute stud defensively the whole tournament either

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

Literally no Detroit fans believe in this ASP = Makar type fantasy. But that doesn't mean he isn't a very good prospect.

 

[Czechboy]

Literally no Detroit fans believe in this ASP = Makar type fantasy. But that doesn't mean he isn't a very good prospect.

I think the Shattenkirk example is a good one. Or my fav Oiler Bouchard.

Lots of offense. Needs to be on a PP to be effective.

I like the idea of him with Erd on pair 2 and giving him PP1 minutes eventually. That could be very successful.

 

[theVladiator]

Feels like Makar/Hughes comparison is a red herring of this discussion. No point to argue against it, hardly anyone is crazy enough to make that comparison. Skating is their calling card, and not many guys can be compared to them on that attribute alone.

At the same time, I think Shattenkirk, at least as a ceiling/aspirational comparison is equally ridiculous. Shatty's skating was always below average, and he is a tire fire defensively. Wasn't offensive dynamo coming into the league either. I mean, it would not be a bust if ASP becomes our Shatty, but a silly example in the context of "potential".

Well, how about Evan Bouchard as aspirational comparison? Bomb of a shot at junior level. Not Hughes/Makar, but a solid skater. May not be able to make a 1st pair all by himself (like Hughes/Makar etc), but a clear 1st pair guy. Hey, for those questioning ASP's IQ, that was a huge criticism point against Bouchard through junior/early NHL, so you can find yourself a home here as well.

 

[Oak]

"I don't care that he puts up better offensive numbers, he sucks offensively!"

The nice benefit of Hfboards is we can critique the best players for fun. If you are satisfied with his game so be it. Some of us have the ability to see beyond points and players just being ok.

 

[Gazewithin]

And yes, I would say he’s a top 5 player outside of the NHL. Hes the top scoring defenseman in the SHL and will likely win defender of the year in that league. Can you indicate what your list is?

I haven't watch enough SHL in the last couple years outside of my team and various prospects to have strong confidence in creating an accurate list, but the five names that popped into my head at first thought was Tomasek, Hållander, Persson, Steen and mayyybe Silfverberg? Probably being a homer, but it's really close amongst the SHL top, so tough to say without more viewings. ASP is around there as well though.

I would estimate the best players in the KHL and AHL to be better than the best SHL players. In addition to some smaller collection of players from Liiga, NLA and maaaybe college? So we're talking about a lot of very very good professional hockey players right now, not what their potential are or what they will be in 3 years. It's not a diss towards a fantastic prospect. I just think that is very exaggerated assertion. He is the best swedish junior right now, and maybe(hopefully) a top5 drafted prospect in the world.

Lol what significant group exactly? I don't think there's a significant group of guys saying he's going to be a Hughes or Makar level player. IF you were going to talk about a prospect out there that could reach that level of offensive dman, it would be ASP though.

Why do we have to do that IF then? What does that accomplish?
IF you think he is the best offensive prospect at D in the world right now, you can think and say that without projecting him to reach the upper echelon of defenceman in the world.
IF you think he is headed towards being one of the best in the world(or that he has a good chance), that's fine too, just don't get annoyed because I disagree and think that's delusional.

And if you honestly don't think Pellikka is being lauded with some very high expectations and hopes that would be hard for ANY top top prospect to fulfill, then we just have to agree to disagree on that.

no one is going to discuss him being like Kevin Shattenkirk when the potential is obviously there to be more than that

No one is going to discuss him being like a player whos level he is most likely to be around? That's completely uninteresting to you?
And just to be clear, I have not made the Shattenkirk comparison once.

If he ended up like prime Shattenkirk that would actually be a really good pick for the record.

Not sure what this has to do with me. I've said nothing to the contrary.

But given all of his accolades, awards, historic production, draft pedigree, international success etc etc..... if you're not allowed to discuss him being a potential first pair, star dman then you literally cant discuss it about anyone.

You question me when I point out that the hype has gotten overboard, and then act like there is some kind of prohibition placed on even DISCUSSING if he has the potential to be a first pair defenceman. Make of that what you will.

Basically no prospects live up to a Makar/Hughes type player

I agree

but if you were going to discuss a prospect right now that could be a top offensive dman in the NHL, ASP is the guy. Otherwise shut HF down, there's no point

Yes, someone thinks a prospect is getting a bit overhyped, shut the whole site down. What's the point of trying to actually understand and predict how something is most likely to unfold? No, there's no point because someone does not rate my guy as high as he should.

You don't think this is reductive and even childish?

And for all the talk about ASPs offence being "questionable" in the WJC this year, no one seems to want to touch on the fact that he was an absolute stud defensively the whole tournament either

I have no clue why you are including this in a post that's solely quoting me. I've said nothing to the contrary. That the funniest thing about all this. I think Pelikanen is sick, and I would be surprised if he doesn't become a productive NHLer. It's the most milquetoast take ever. God forbid if this was one of the top prospects I have a strong take on.

 

[Hallonbroder]

He will absolutely never be a top pairing defenseman in the NHL because he will never dethrone Seider off the top pairing, unless he is the second coming of Bobby Orr. So yeah, that will never happen.

He absolutely will get every chance to run PP1, and everything so far shows that he has the ability to succeed at it. So that we can argue about.


He plays very similar to Sergei Zubov. He isn't Makar or Hughes because he doesn't have their skating ability. On the other hand, he is a lot better defensively than those two were at the same age, though they've obviously improved significantly in the NHL.

Nobody is expecting him to become Hughes or Makar. All we are saying is he has the potential to be a top tier offensive dman given that he has shattered all expectations of him thus far.

I have trouble understanding how people can argue against that. What else could a player possibly do to be discussed as having the potential? Is it an expectation? No, absolutely not. But does he have the potential? Yes, though it's very unlikely he gets there. If he doesn't have the potential to be the next top tier offensive dman, then who does? There is no defenseman outside of the NHL who has put up better stats since being drafted than ASP.

What are we expecting? Probably a Shattenkirk level guy, as someone else mentioned. What are we praying/hoping for? Obviously best case.

Bobby Orr? That’s the only “level of player” that can dethrone Seider? Holy overrating, Batman, know I can see where all this overrating is coming from.

The other person you responded to has the most level-headed approach to this prospect.

 

[Hallonbroder]

Last page or so has been a whole lot of "He's so overrated, Wings fans think he's gonna be a top pairing guy!" even though Wings fans have quite literally said he'll never usurp Seider and will be relied on for offensive and PP assignments...

When one person says “the only one who can dethrone Seider would be Bobby Orr!”, this whole “we don’t think too highly of him”-charade fall’s apart

 

[schuelma24]

When one person says “the only one who can dethrone Seider would be Bobby Orr!”, this whole “we don’t think too highly of him”-charade fall’s apart

That's an incredibly misleading read of what the poster said and meant.

Come on now.

This thread is absolutely hilarious, I must say.

 

[Hallonbroder]

That's an incredibly misleading read of what the poster said and meant.

Come on now.

This thread is absolutely hilarious, I must say.

The guy I responded to wrote: “He (ASP) will absolutely never be a top pairing defenseman in the NHL because he will never dethrone Seider off the top pairing, unless he is the second coming of Bobby Orr. So yeah, that will never happen”.

Gawd, I’d love this site if more people were like @Gazewithin