Speculation: Raymond Seider Contract Speculation

[norrisnick]

The season is too close to play around anymore.

Fall of 2027.

We still hold his rights, we've waited this long, why rush into a deal now?

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Fall of 2027.

We still hold his rights, we've waited this long, why rush into a deal now?

The season is too close to play around anymore.

We're quite literally at the 11th hour of the negotiations. I wouldn't be floored to see it get signed in the next day or two. That's what I'm saying. If you're going to, as Yzerman, hold tight now, why on Earth are you folding on September 18th when you're more likely than not to sign the contract on 9/19 or 9/20? Why on Earth would you fold to the demands when you didn't over the past several months. This is how Yzerman negotiates. Much as we hate Claude Lemieux, he's not going to f*** Seider over to stick it to the Wings.

 

[norrisnick]

We're quite literally at the 11th hour of the negotiations. I wouldn't be floored to see it get signed in the next day or two. That's what I'm saying. If you're going to, as Yzerman, hold tight now, why on Earth are you folding on September 18th when you're more likely than not to sign the contract on 9/19 or 9/20? Why on Earth would you fold to the demands when you didn't over the past several months. This is how Yzerman negotiates. Much as we hate Claude Lemieux, he's not going to f*** Seider over to stick it to the Wings.

Because that's what happens at the 11th hour. One party folds. Not signing 8 years hurts the Wings more than it does Mo. So give him the 8 and get him to camp.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Because that's what happens at the 11th hour. One party folds. Not signing 8 years hurts the Wings more than it does Mo. So give him the 8 and get him to camp.

I truthfully think it doesn't. I think they might value not having to handle a pair of renewals 8 years into the future. Both to 8 year deals feels like putting all the eggs in the Raymond and Seider basket. Which might be a good idea, but seriously, if they fall off for whatever reason, we're in deep.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

We're quite literally at the 11th hour of the negotiations. I wouldn't be floored to see it get signed in the next day or two. That's what I'm saying. If you're going to, as Yzerman, hold tight now, why on Earth are you folding on September 18th when you're more likely than not to sign the contract on 9/19 or 9/20? Why on Earth would you fold to the demands when you didn't over the past several months. This is how Yzerman negotiates. Much as we hate Claude Lemieux, he's not going to f*** Seider over to stick it to the Wings.

Lemieux wants as much as he can get.

 

[norrisnick]

I truthfully think it doesn't. I think they might value not having to handle a pair of renewals 8 years into the future. Both to 8 year deals feels like putting all the eggs in the Raymond and Seider basket. Which might be a good idea, but seriously, if they fall off for whatever reason, we're in deep.

They are worth it or they aren't. It's too late to not ride or die with them. So there is no need to p***yfoot around here. Lock em up and move forward.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

They are worth it or they aren't. It's too late to not ride or die with them. So there is no need to p***yfoot around here. Lock em up and move forward.

Exactly. What are we suppose to do, wait?

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Exactly. What are we suppose to do, wait?

For 24-48 hours. Yes. They’re negotiating right now.

 

[ricky0034]

I truthfully think it doesn't. I think they might value not having to handle a pair of renewals 8 years into the future. Both to 8 year deals feels like putting all the eggs in the Raymond and Seider basket. Which might be a good idea, but seriously, if they fall off for whatever reason, we're in deep.

if the Wings don't fully believe in Seider then honestly they need to blow up the team right now and start over

 

[Euro Twins]

if the Wings don't fully believe in Seider then honestly they need to blow up the team right now and start over

This is the kinda of chaos and panic I was hoping for!

 

[ricky0034]

This is the kinda of chaos and panic I was hoping for!

to be fair I do believe in him and I think the Wings do too, but if the Wings have any doubts at all about him like the post I quoted implied they might then that would be dire

it won't be easy for the Wings to be actual contenders as it is even if he fully pans out

 

[RED WINGS STOMP]

Mo,

Please sign. Forget what that turtle is telling you.

Signed,

Everybody.

 

[Henkka]

if the Wings don't fully believe in Seider then honestly they need to blow up the team right now and start over

Those contract years have zero effect on any kind of "belief". Of course they will belief.

 

[Ulysses31]

if I SY i think i hold of a 8.7X7 (obv 8.7x8 if he prefer that) max offer.

for 6 be more like 6x8.075

as henkka said earlier, 7 could b better so rayman n seider contracts dont end of same yr. dont think it would hurt much tho ending when larkins does as he would b quite old for an NHLer then.

 

[RRhoads]

I don't think it matters much if Raymond and Seider's contracts end at the same time. That's more important if they are on shorter bridge deals, or coming off an ELC.

 

[Indrid Cold]

I'm still on the fence about calling these sports stars 'selfish'. For normal people $10k can mean the difference between feeding your family, or not. To these athletes, $100k does not.

 

[Ulysses31]

I don't think it matters much if Raymond and Seider's contracts end at the same time. That's more important if they are on shorter bridge deals, or coming off an ELC.

it matters enough IMO , could leverage off of each other like toews n kane (they bother collectively negotiated for 10x8 each). teams have been known to stagger contracts, leafs purposely played nylander 10 plus games when they didnt need to the yr before matthews n marner joined team to stagger when they all came off their ELCs.

why would coming off elc or birdge deal even make it more important? could be argued to opposite as it will b for purely UFAs yrs and more money.

 

[RRhoads]

why would coming off elc or birdge deal even make it more important? could be argued to opposite as it will b for purely UFAs yrs and more money.

Because the raise is much higher on a ELC or a bridge deal.

 

[jkutswings]

Exactly. What are we suppose to do, wait?

You're right. I'm sure if we patiently explain that a bunch of internet fans REALLY want the signing to happen before camp, that will make all the difference.

Go live life. It'll happen when it happens.

 

[Ulysses31]

Because the raise is much higher on a ELC or a bridge deal.

still will be a big increase tho for rayman n seider, least 6 mil (3 mil a head if they continue progress). that said, like i stated earlier, imo 8.7 x 7 vs 8.7 x 8 roughly equally good. extra yr of seider more or less equal to staggerin rayman n seiders ufa yr

 

[SCD]

It is not just about Seider's contract, it is about setting a reasonable salary cap system that all these other young players will valued at in the future. Sure, Yzerman can give Seider what ever he wants. Then comes Edvinsson, and the rest of the hopeful prospects. It is all about not creating salary cap hell that will dismantle the core in the future.

The goal should be 8.7 mil like Larkin. That will help set a ceiling for all future studs. It worked will when Yzerman was playing.

I can't believe these negotiations are proceeding like most. Even though it is business, I can't imagine that Lemieux's history doesn't infuse these talks with a certain level of acrimony.

 

[newfy]

They are worth it or they aren't. It's too late to not ride or die with them. So there is no need to p***yfoot around here. Lock em up and move forward.

Yeah f*** it, hes good. Give him 11 million and who cares the precedent it sets for contracts going forward.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

I'm still on the fence about calling these sports stars 'selfish'. For normal people $10k can mean the difference between feeding your family, or not. To these athletes, $100k does not.

They’re not selfish.

They’re negotiating a contract to be paid for their services.

In fact, the NHLPA tends to hate when players go “team-friendly” or “want to win friendly contracts because of the way comparables work. Bigger contracts for players raise the boat for other players.

There is nothing to be on the fence about other than maybe the billionaire owners and tv execs continuing to pump the fan bases for ludicrous money to watch it.

Hating the players for wanting raises just misses the mark tremendously

 

[Henkka]

It's interesting, how different evolving-hockey did calculate those contract estimates.

On average, majority of different terms will show Raymond as more valuable player.

And imo, Seider is more important than him.

So, my conclusion is, that current forward market is more inflated than defenceman market, based on other contracts.

Also, Seider could be wanting a shorter term by himself, because he was not happy for last year only with 42-points. It was not a best possible "career" year. He could like to get another better chance.

Also, it's interesting on that estimate chart, how that 6-year estimate was biggest gap favoring Seider vs. Raymond with a 6-year deal. It comes from comparable contracts. So it could be Moritz himself wanting that, because it could be that Yzerman and Claude the Turtle could be throwing these numbers same ways.

Yzerman chopped 800k off from the Raymond estimate, 200k off from the Berggren estimate, and 400k off from the Larkin estimate last year. These will cumulate to a contender on long-run.

 

[SCD]

The reality is the players and owners have agreed to a split 50:50 revenue model. It makes no difference what an owner is worth, nor each player. The salary cap is set to preserve that split.

When one player (or two) take a large percentage of that pool, others players have to take less. The constraints on signing other players is magnified. It is great to have superstars, but Edmonton has yet to win a cup with McDavid.