Raw/SD/NXT/PPV spoiler thread part 11

[The Gongshow]

You mean the first time since the actual first time .

Oh yeah forgot about the Iron Woman match

 

[Emperoreddy]

Ruby should be involved as well

 

[quoipourquoi]

She's not invincible, and this is a scripted wrestling match, not a shoot fight. It's show business. She should be doing jobs.

Remember when WWE had Lesnar lose to Cena and Triple H and he stopped being a serious needle mover until they sacrificed the Undertaker's streak to get him going again?

They shouldn't make Ronda Rousey, who was a bigger star than Brock Lesnar, look as though she's on the same wavelength as their current roster. Because they don't have an Undertaker to undo it.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Rousey buried her own credibility by getting her ass kicked back-to-back and the way she handled those losses.

Yeah yeah, real fighting, but still.

She's not invincible, and this is a scripted wrestling match, not a shoot fight. It's show business. She should be doing jobs.

She's not an MMA fighter, her star power rapidly vanished, she's not getting any movie roles anymore because of her star power and draw vanishing as quickly as it did, etc.

She lost to real fighters, not pretend ones. She still has to be respected as a legitimate fighter, it would be laughable to see Sasha or Alexa or Bayley in the ring with her, and not hurt them.

I get it, its pro wrestling but the fans have to buy in and you destroy any money you can make by bringing her in to lose

 

[M.C.G. 31]

Remember when WWE had Lesnar lose to Cena and Triple H and he stopped being a serious needle mover until they sacrificed the Undertaker's streak to get him going again?

They shouldn't make Ronda Rousey, who was a bigger star than Brock Lesnar, look as though she's on the same wavelength as their current roster. Because they don't have an Undertaker to undo it.

See I don't agree with that. I'm not a fan of her, I get the star that she once was and the draw, and maybe she'll move the needle a bit in WWE but I won't hold my breath, but she's not the big draw anymore. She's a big get for WWE, but I just really don't think she's a Brock Lesnar of the women's division. If anything, that's Asuka. They've built her up as one.

I had a problem with Lesnar losing to Cena and HHH. I have no problems with Rousey losing to the likes of Sasha, Charlotte, Becky or Asuka if the build is good.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

She lost to real fighters, not pretend ones. She still has to be respected as a legitimate fighter, it would be laughable to see Sasha or Alexa or Bayley in the ring with her, and not hurt them.

I get it, its pro wrestling but the fans have to buy in and you destroy any money you can make by bringing her in to lose

You make it sound like I'm saying to have her lose right away.

Alexa, Nia, Emma, those have no business ever beating Rousey.

Sasha, Becky, Charlotte and Asuka with good builds? Absolutely. Especially Asuka.

Again, this isn't a shoot fight. It's show business. Rousey can only be booked like a beast for so long before an inevitable showdown with someone like Asuka.

Hell, if I were to guess, I'd say the odds of her losing her first WWE match is solid if the four horsewomen of MMA vs. four horsewomen of WWE match takes place at Survivor Series unless it's not an elimination match so they can protect Rousey.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Asuka is the Brock of the women's division, or really she is the Goldberg of the women's division.

A 500+ undefeated streak means more in a WWE ring then what Ronda has right now, especially considering how her fight career ended. She will be booked strong, but this idea that the current top women wrestlers would have zero credibility beating her is really silly.

Not saying she will be jobbing to the likes of Carmella, but if they do a Ronda vs Charlotte, Charlotte is going to look very strong in it.

I feel foolish for not realizing this, but maybe we didn't get any Horsewomen teases last night because Bayley is still hurt and the odds of her working Survior Series are low.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

She lost to real fighters, not pretend ones. She still has to be respected as a legitimate fighter, it would be laughable to see Sasha or Alexa or Bayley in the ring with her, and not hurt them.

I get it, its pro wrestling but the fans have to buy in and you destroy any money you can make by bringing her in to lose

Does she? It's pro wrestling. All they have to do is say that this isn't MMA...it's pro wrestling. That's good enough to put her credibility at a point where you set up it being okay for a real pro wrestler to beat a fake pro wrestler.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Does she? It's pro wrestling. All they have to do is say that this isn't MMA...it's pro wrestling. That's good enough to put her credibility at a point where you set up it being okay for a real pro wrestler to beat a fake pro wrestler.

It is how they sold the Mae Young final.

 

[quoipourquoi]

I had a problem with Lesnar losing to Cena and HHH. I have no problems with Rousey losing to the likes of Sasha, Charlotte, Becky or Asuka if the build is good.

Then I can only think that this comes from the standpoint of not knowing how big of a deal Ronda Rousey was from 2012-2015 - to the point that she did get mainstream movie offers, did get a New York Times best-selling autobiography, and did draw more money than Brock Lesnar.

You can say that it isn't 2012-2015 anymore, but when the WWE brought in Lesnar, it wasn't 2008-2010 anymore either. If they treat her like she's just another wrestler, she will be just another wrestler. But if they treat her like she's Ronda Rousey - again, an objectively bigger star than Brock Lesnar was in the UFC - they actually stand to improve their product.

 

[SeidoN]

She lost to real fighters, not pretend ones. She still has to be respected as a legitimate fighter, it would be laughable to see Sasha or Alexa or Bayley in the ring with her, and not hurt them.

I get it, its pro wrestling but the fans have to buy in and you destroy any money you can make by bringing her in to lose

and its laughable that Kairi Sane could beat Bazsler but oh look its pro wrestling

 

[M.C.G. 31]

Then I can only think that this comes from the standpoint of not knowing how big of a deal Ronda Rousey was from 2012-2015 - to the point that she did get mainstream movie offers, did get a New York Times best-selling autobiography, and did draw more money than Brock Lesnar.

You can say that it isn't 2012-2015 anymore, but when the WWE brought in Lesnar, it wasn't 2008-2010 anymore either. If they treat her like she's just another wrestler, she will be just another wrestler. But if they treat her like she's Ronda Rousey - again, an objectively bigger star than Brock Lesnar was in the UFC - they actually stand to improve their product.

I know how big Rousey was.

I also know how quickly she lost everything and lost every sense of her aura and any box office drawing power, which even Hollywood execs saw.

Brock was a star when he jumped back and continues to be one.

 

[Kimi]

I know how big Rousey was.

I also know how quickly she lost everything and lost every sense of her aura and any box office drawing power, which even Hollywood execs saw.

Brock was a star when he jumped back and continues to be one.

I think you massively underestimate her star power, especially considering that she wasn't drawing from the sports crowd but from the general female one.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

I think you massively underestimate her star power, especially considering that she wasn't drawing from the sports crowd but from the general female one.

Probably.

I don't think Rousey's going to move the needle much in WWE. Barely anyone does, and I don't think it'll be Rousey. If she made the jump undefeated or after her first loss, maybe.

The only ones who I think can move the needle for WWE nowadays is if they brought in Floyd or Conor for a one-off program. And The Rock, obviously.

 

[Paris in Flames]

Then I can only think that this comes from the standpoint of not knowing how big of a deal Ronda Rousey was from 2012-2015 - to the point that she did get mainstream movie offers, did get a New York Times best-selling autobiography, and did draw more money than Brock Lesnar.

You can say that it isn't 2012-2015 anymore, but when the WWE brought in Lesnar, it wasn't 2008-2010 anymore either. If they treat her like she's just another wrestler, she will be just another wrestler. But if they treat her like she's Ronda Rousey - again, an objectively bigger star than Brock Lesnar was in the UFC - they actually stand to improve their product.

Ronda has also had what can be described as the biggest fall from grace in our lifetime. Nobody sees Ronda as a star anymore. She can't fight. She can't get movies. She's doing through wrestling thing, finally, because her other options are gone.

Yes. She was huge. She still has name value but its no longer aassociated with being a strong fighter.

 

[Kimi]

Probably.

I don't think Rousey's going to move the needle much in WWE. Barely anyone does, and I don't think it'll be Rousey. If she made the jump undefeated or after her first loss, maybe.

The only ones who I think can move the needle for WWE nowadays is if they brought in Floyd or Conor for a one-off program. And The Rock, obviously.

I think she'll make an impact with her following coming to WWE, but once she's gone I'd expect her fans to also leave. Basically the same as how it went in UFC, her fans came for her fight then left. Still, the question will be how big of an impact.

 

[quoipourquoi]

She still has name value but its no longer aassociated with being a strong fighter.

Casual fandom (which is what generates huge numbers) doesn't work that way. Ronda Rousey will forever be associated with being a strong fighter, because that's what she was when she became a prominent figure in the 2010s feminist zeitgeist. The only more empowering physical star they could bring into the division right now would be Gal Gadot.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

Casual fandom (which is what generates huge numbers) doesn't work that way. Ronda Rousey will forever be associated with being a strong fighter, because that's what she was when she became a prominent figure in the 2010s feminist zeitgeist. The only more empowering physical star they could bring into the division right now would be Gal Gadot.

They could bring Nunes in and have her knock Rousey out in 45 seconds again.

Over 1-million people bought her last fight and more were probably watching in another way and saw a one time big star who was getting movie roles and all that good stuff get knocked out and have her entire career killed to the point where there was no more fighting, there was no more movie offers and her only option left was WWE.

I don't even know if she still has that big of a following from the UFC anymore that's going to follow her and watch every segment she has on WWE TV.

They'll see the biggest boost from their YouTube page, but that's about it, imo. No big TV bump.

 

[quoipourquoi]

They could bring Nunes in and have her knock Rousey out in 45 seconds again.

I literally had to look up who her second loss was to. That's how relevant it is to her brand as a cultural icon. But it is a nice reminder that even after losing, she could draw 1 million buys. And the movie roles went away because she can't act; it's a far less transferable skill than pretending to do the thing she did for real for the 45 seconds most of her matches should last in the WWE - before they pair her with a money opponent (Asuka).

I just think it's weird that you don't see the Lesnar parallel, especially considering that Rousey is the bigger star and that there is no mainstream equivalent to John Cena in the women's division. If it was poor use of Lesnar early on in WWE, it certainly would be poor use of Rousey.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I literally had to look up who her second loss was to. That's how relevant it is to her brand as a cultural icon. But it is a nice reminder that even after losing, she could draw 1 million buys. And the movie roles went away because she can't act; it's a far less transferable skill than pretending to do the thing she did for real for the 45 seconds most of her matches should last in the WWE - before they pair her with a money opponent (Asuka).

I just think it's weird that you don't see the Lesnar parallel, especially considering that Rousey is the bigger star and that there is no mainstream equivalent to John Cena in the women's division. If it was poor use of Lesnar early on in WWE, it certainly would be poor use of Rousey.

Well he disputes the assertion that Rousey is a bigger star than when Lesnar came in. The other thing is how you use whatever star power is there for the audience they have. I just don't think that Rousey has the same general appeal that Lesnar did at the time and I don't think the demographic that would be Rousey's appeal is going to give a crap about her in the WWE. Lesnar's credibility to the WWE audience was established before his MMA run and that is something Rousey doesn't have. Everyone knew Lesnar could go in the ring and entertain. There's no such experience for Rousey. Since she is an unknown, there won't be as much hype for her nor as much rope for her to fail.

And we need to get this idea that a real fight and pro wrestling are all that transferable. It's not. A fight and a wrestling match are two completely different things. The only similarity is that it takes a level of athletic ability but the ability to tell a story with your voice and your matches is not something that can be transferred from real fighting. Strategizing for a real fight win and strategizing for an entertaining match are two completely different things.

 

[Paris in Flames]

I literally had to look up who her second loss was to. That's how relevant it is to her brand as a cultural icon. But it is a nice reminder that even after losing, she could draw 1 million buys. And the movie roles went away because she can't act; it's a far less transferable skill than pretending to do the thing she did for real for the 45 seconds most of her matches should last in the WWE - before they pair her with a money opponent (Asuka).

I just think it's weird that you don't see the Lesnar parallel, especially considering that Rousey is the bigger star and that there is no mainstream equivalent to John Cena in the women's division. If it was poor use of Lesnar early on in WWE, it certainly would be poor use of Rousey.

tbh a lot of people were probably like me and had a morbid curiosity to see how bad she probably would be.

Would she eclipse 1 million if she fought again in 3 months?

 

[quoipourquoi]

And we need to get this idea that a real fight and pro wrestling are all that transferable. It's not. A fight and a wrestling match are two completely different things.

Well then why do you think it is WWE, out of all of the companies in the world, who is pursuing her?

Going from fighting to staged fighting is absolutely more transferable than going from fighting to acting in film, so this idea that because "Hollywood execs" stopped ringing her phone she must have "lost every sense of her aura and any box office drawing power" is obviously inaccurate. WWE wants her and we're talking about her. She's just not a good actress.

tbh a lot of people were probably like me and had a morbid curiosity to see how bad she probably would be.

And they'll probably have morbid curiosity to see how she does in the WWE, which will either be free to watch or $9.99 at the most - instead of the $59.99 their morbid curiosity cost them last time.

 

[offkilter]

and its laughable that Kairi Sane could beat Bazsler but oh look its pro wrestling

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss women like Kairi if she legit fought Baszler. Kairi like a lot of women who enter Japanese pro wrestling has a background in shoot boxing. Shoot boxing is a stand up MMA style similar to standard kick boxing that allows standing submissions so she wouldn't be too out of her element. I'm not saying she'd destroy Shayna, but she should be able to make a decent accounting of herself against someone whos record is 15-11 all time.

 

[Sheppy]

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss women like Kairi if she legit fought Baszler. Kairi like a lot of women who enter Japanese pro wrestling has a background in shoot boxing. Shoot boxing is a stand up MMA style similar to standard kick boxing that allows standing submissions so she wouldn't be too out of her element. I'm not saying she'd destroy Shayna, but she should be able to make a decent accounting of herself against someone whos record is 15-11 all time.

Baszler is also a ****** fighter too. Always has been pretty bad to be honest...

Also, i thought she was younger than 37. Jeez.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Ronda has also had what can be described as the biggest fall from grace in our lifetime. Nobody sees Ronda as a star anymore. She can't fight. She can't get movies. She's doing through wrestling thing, finally, because her other options are gone.

Yes. She was huge. She still has name value but its no longer aassociated with being a strong fighter.

Lets not be over dramatic, she was ahead of the competition in MMA for a while, then it started catching up. She is still going to be rcognized as a female athlete that made a big mark in womens sports