Proposal: Rasmus Dahlin For Moritz Seider

[rod]

as the Wings have put consistently better forward around Seider the past two years, his analytical performances have declined. He was a better player as rookie than he was as a 3rd year pro. As his teammates (forward groupings anyway) got better, Seider has stagnated.

After his rookie year, Seider was rightly in the top 10 list of NhL defenders. Now he’s 20th on the recent one NHL.com did and many of us know he’s not even that. He’s frankly has no business on that list based on his play last year.

I will have what this guy is smoking.

 

[Snuggs]

Red Wings fan.

Easy pick Rasmus Dahlin. They're sort of different style of defensemen too though. Grossly exaggerated, imo, how "not good" some people are suggesting Seider is, but that is fine. Red Wings got to get a little better for people to pay attention.

 

[norrisnick]

Ah.. the capitulation. Analytics mean nothing when it comes to Seider and only Seider. That's a new excuse. Bravo.

I've had plenty of fun seeing Detroit become an irrelevant NHL team. A club that doesn't matter in the NHL right now and is generally forgotten.

And no... still haven't made the case that Seider has the same value as Dalhin, but saying analytics don't apply to Seider was at least creative in humoring us.

No, analytics mean nothing ever. Until games start getting decided by the "Deserve-to-Win-o-Meter" I don't really care. And should that point come to fruition, I still wouldn't because that's the day I move on from hockey.

 

[Mattilaus]

Underrated? There’s someone in this thread mentioning Dahlin in the same breath as Orr and Lidstrom.

Ahhh so that one person with a ridiculous take is the problem but you have no issue with the multiple comments saying Dahlin isn't even in the top 3 dmen of his draft class. Gotcha.

 

[norrisnick]

Ahhh so that one person with a ridiculous take is the problem but you have no issue with the multiple comments saying Dahlin isn't even in the top 3 dmen of his draft class. Gotcha.

Well... take it up with the PHWA association because they voted three of them ahead of Dahlin for the Norris this season.

 

[Mattilaus]

Well... take it up with the PHWA association because they voted three of them ahead of Dahlin for the Norris this season.

Yes and we all know all that matters is Norris votes and all that matters is the one vote. Ignore previous years, quality of team, quality of competition, and deployment.

Since we doing this, clearly Dahlin is worth about 3 Seiders because Seider got zero votes last season. What a scrub.

 

[norrisnick]

Yes and we all know all that matters is Norris votes and all that matters is the one vote. Ignore previous years, quality of team, quality of competition, and deployment.

Since we doing this, clearly Dahlin is worth about 3 Seiders because Seider got zero votes last season. What a scrub.

With that contract he oughta be...

 

[Mattilaus]

With that contract he oughta be...

He is being paid that because he is three times as good as Seider.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Who cares who's better. Both teams are happy with their star dman.

Seider’s analytics are, tbf, closer to the early 20s seasons of another Rasmus the Sabres ran out of town a few years ago than they are to Dahlin’s. Detroit fans are free to like their guy, but the suggestion that he’s as good or better than Dahlin is just plain wrong.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Ahhh so that one person with a ridiculous take is the problem but you have no issue with the multiple comments saying Dahlin isn't even in the top 3 dmen of his draft class. Gotcha.

Straw man argument.

How do you pull that from my statement when I made no such claim about the other D from his draft class?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Seider’s analytics are, tbf, closer to the early 20s seasons of another Rasmus the Sabres ran out of town a few years ago than they are to Dahlin’s. Detroit fans are free to like their guy, but the suggestion that he’s as good or better than Dahlin is just plain wrong.

There were a few analytics folks that stated Seider’s numbers and eye test don’t match up. If I remember, JFresh, a guy many here lean on, was one of them.

Defensive analytics from last year will tell you that Olli Maatta is a better defender than Seider because they lack the context that he and Gostisbehere were getting favorable deployments with Larkin’s line in the o-zone while Seider was out with Veleno in the D zone.

Seider is better than his numbers indicate. I’d bet that anyone arguing otherwise either didn’t watch Detroit or has an agenda to push.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

You cannot be serious.

I’d love to see how either of those players in their prime would fair in Buffalo.

 

[Evergreen]

Dahlin is more valuable. Love Seider though.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

So does anyone have any information about Dahlin's play on the right vs the left? Analytics wise?

What about a long term potential partner for Dahlin? Is Samuelsson, Clifton or Jokijarju the answer?

Oh, I fixed the spelling as well.

 

[Fatass]

Ahhh so that one person with a ridiculous take is the problem but you have no issue with the multiple comments saying Dahlin isn't even in the top 3 dmen of his draft class. Gotcha.

Currently Dahlin is behind Hughes, Bouchard, and Dobson. That puts him at fourth from his class.

 

[DougBodger]

Dahlin would score 120+ points with Edmonton. There is no planet in which Bouchard is the better player.

 

[Zman5778]

So does anyone have any information about Dahlin's play on the right vs the left? Analytics wise?

What about a long term potential partner for Dahlin? Is Samuelsson, Clifton or Jokijarju the answer?

I've got no analytics as far as Dahlin L vs R, but Dahlin has come out and stated that he prefers to play the right side. And he tends to play better on the right side, especially on the breakout and in the offensive zone.

Samuelsson, Power and Byram are all options for long-term partners for Ras. Jokiharju isn't likely here in Buffalo after this year, and Clifton is a 3rd pairing guy. Sammy has paired well with Dahlin in the past, but that pair lost a bit of steam last year (kinda like the Sabres as a whole did). Dahlin/Power put up a stupid 60% CF% and a 55% xGF% in about 250 min last year. Byram and Dahlin played for about 140 min together and weren't impressive.

My HUNCH is that to start the year, Ruff is gonna give Power/Dahlin and Samuelsson/Byram a lot of run. We shall see.

 

[UnSandvich]

As a fan of neither team, Sabres turn this down way before the Red Wings do. Dahlin is a tier above Seider.

Tier 1: Makar, Fox
Tier 1.5: Hughes (Need to see another season like last out of him before definitively moving up to tier 1, but he looks capable of it)
Tier 2: Josi, Heiskanen, Dahlin, McAvoy (i think there's someone else i'm missing, but i'm blanking.)
Tier 3: Hedman, Karlsson, Seider, Slavin, etc.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

So does anyone have any information about Dahlin's play on the right vs the left? Analytics wise?

What about a long term potential partner for Dahlin? Is Samuelsson, Clifton or Jokijarju the answer?

Oh, I fixed the spelling as well.

His analytics have been better on the LH than RH. A fair amount of that is that when paired with Samuelsson his possession metrics haven't been better than when paired with Jokiharju. Those are different partners with different games and different deployements so it isn't easy to make concrete conclusions.

I'm starting to suspect that while he states he prefers his off hand it'd actually be better if he played more on his natural side.

 

[sabremike]

His analytics have been better on the LH than RH. A fair amount of that is that when paired with Samuelsson his possession metrics haven't been better than when paired with Jokiharju. Those are different partners with different games and different deployements so it isn't easy to make concrete conclusions.

I'm starting to suspect that while he states he prefers his off hand it'd actually be better if he played more on his natural side.

The fact he gets better results with a godawful boat anchor like Joker seems like strong evidence for your hunch.

 

[Gordon Lightfoot]

I’d love to see how either of those players in their prime would fair in Buffalo.

It feels like you're serious. I guess you are. So like... you wouldn't take Ray Bourque or Larry Robinson over Dahlin?

 

[Unbiased Fan]

It feels like you're serious. I guess you are. So like... you wouldn't take Ray Bourque or Larry Robinson over Dahlin?

Never seen either play but probably not. They retired before I was born

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

Erik Dahlin is better.