Value of: Rantanen - what would you give?

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Someone asked what he was worth in a trade.

If Colorado knows he’s re-signing there 100%, either he’s not getting traded at all, or he’s ok re-signing in Colorado for only 7 years rather than 8 if they DO trade him, which we will file under “not terribly likely”.

I agree, teams don’t trade those players UNLESS they have been told that the player won’t commit to signing there long term. Which makes all your hypotheticals pointless.

And no, he would NOT plausibly sign with any team who traded for him. If he wants to win, and not just get money, there are easily 12-18 teams he would want no part of. While I cannot say he absolutely wouldn’t re-sign with the Ducks or Sharks, I can very comfortably say he would not re-sign with the Ducks or Sharks. And neither of those teams has any business sending the type of pieces that a signed Rantanen would garner.

If someone asked that, why didn't you quote them instead of me? My post was saying that Meier and Horvat are terrible comparables for a two time 100+ point scoring Cup winner who is one of the best wingers in the game today. And I stand by that statement.

And if the Avs are planning on extending him, then he's not getting traded. There's too much risk involved in trading him to another team when the Avs can use him for their own playoff run, and a rental return isn't anywhere close to worth it.

But, in the hypothetical that he's even available, however unlikely it actually is, does it really matter that there are some teams he probably wouldn't sign with? Where else are the remaining 10-20 teams that he might extend with going to find another Cup winner 100+ point winger in his prime who is 4th among active players in playoff PPG, that they could most likely extend long term? Do you think there aren't at least a couple of stupid/desperate GMs around the league who would get into a bidding war and drive the price way above what Horvat or Meier returned?

 

[Ducks DVM]

I dont expect you to go through an re-read the whole thread but the only comparable is Marian Hossa in 2008. Returned two middle six players, the 2007 1st round pick (20th overall), and the 2008 1st (ended up being 29th overall). Dupuis also went with Hossa, who was a nothing player at the time, but ended up being more valuable to Pit in the long run.

But, and a huge but, Hossa at that point was on pace for 76 points compared to his previous 100 points. Maybe if he was lighting it up still, the return might have been a little better. Or not. Who knows.

Played for Pit, UFA to Det, UFA to Chicago.

So its possible to trade that much for a pure rental who wont re-sign and they had a Cup run because of it. You guarantee that to any contending team and I be they make that exact trade this deadline.

You’re putting lipstick on a pig. Those players were absolutely two mediocre 3rd liners, and that’s inarguable, the late 1st is a late 1st, and the very late 1st is in the good but not great prospect department. There was also a 4th line player who went along with Hossa. That’s in line with a legit middle 6 player, a 1st, and a not top prospect.

Even ignoring the fact that teams aren’t selling the farm for rentals any more, that was seen as a piss poor return for Hossa at the time, as was the Kovalchuk trade that followed.

 

[Ducks DVM]

If someone asked that, why didn't you quote them instead of me? My post was saying that Meier and Horvat are terrible comparables for a two time 100+ point scoring Cup winner who is one of the best wingers in the game today. And I stand by that statement.

And if the Avs are planning on extending him, then he's not getting traded. There's too much risk involved in trading him to another team when the Avs can use him for their own playoff run, and a rental return isn't anywhere close to worth it.

But, in the hypothetical that he's even available, however unlikely it actually is, does it really matter that there are some teams he probably wouldn't sign with? Where else are the remaining 10-20 teams that he might extend with going to find another Cup winner 100+ point winger in his prime who is 4th among active players in playoff PPG, that they could most likely extend long term? Do you think there aren't at least a couple of stupid/desperate GMs around the league who would get into a bidding war and drive the price way above what Horvat or Meier returned?

That question is literally the OP. My point is that there’s nothing to show that teams will give more than that in this type of circumstances.

 

[SensFactor]

I would give a lot. He's awesome.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

That question is literally the OP. My point is that there’s nothing to show that teams will give more than that in this type of circumstances.

For most of the Cap era, the rental market has been 2nd line players who want bigger roles/paychecks, like Meier and Horvat, or past their prime guys chasing Cups, like Giroux and Iginla, so it's not surprising that teams haven't wanted to pay more. But that doesn't suggest that they won't pay more for a player like Rantanen, who is actually worth it.

 

[Crow]

I quite literally looked up his stats the 2 years before his deadline which is what we are comparing right? Similar age in that 27-28yo range. 44th in the league in scoring, -14 that year at .92 ppg. The Thrashers won their division in 06-07 then fell off hard in 07-08 so not the same as two high scoring Avs teams in recent years, but finished the season on an amazing Pens team obviously.

I dont see the argument offensively for being better at all, let alone "far superior". We can go down the Makar/eMacKinnon is carrying him argument as well as hm being on par with Kovalchuk compared to being carried by him. Defensively, we can go down 200ft game, which isnt as quantifiable.

Update: So the 44th in scoring would be compared to this season for Rantanen. 11th in 05-06 and 7th in 06-07 for Hossa compared to 8th in each of Rantanen's seasons . So i guess, if were comparing apples to oranges, Rantanen falls off hard this year compared to the last two seasons and at the deadline, the Avs move him like the Thrashers did Hossa.