Rantanen vs Necas points race to end of season.

[AslanRH]

I really hope the Flames don't throw a huge contract at him.

Don't think you should lose sleep over this concern

 

[josra33]

There is a long line of "2Cs", draftees, and a few others who may argue that.

I offer Nuke, Drouin, Lehky and Toews as a rebuttal. All acquired for way cheaper than they play when with the Avs.

 

[flyfysher]

I can understand if he isn’t great, but he has to be a lot better than this or Huberdeau comparisons become legit in a hurry. That’s another guy who “found his game” after a year or so, and it turned out his game is actually being a 55-point guy when he’s not on a line with superstars.

These comments have got me thinking. Is there a difference between an elite player and one with elite skills? You look at guys like Hughes, McDavid, Draisatl, MacKinnon, Crosby Makar, Matthews and they can take over a game. Clearly they are elite in that sense in addition to having elite skills. But does having an elite skill make you an elite player? How do you define elite? Those guys aren’t traded. They stay with the organization that drafted them. They don’t just have elite skills, those are the guys that we look to to be the guy when needed. IOW, clutch. They’re a great value for what they bring. And they can be productive in different scenarios whether it’s offense, defense, two way play or at least not a constant liability. We don’t question their motivation to be the best they can on the ice. With Rants, I question his motivation/effort on ice and ability to be a dynamic offensive force. Rants is a great player with elite skills. But to do that, it appears he needs to be in the right situation to employ those elite skills to full effect.

 

[tarheelhockey]

These comments have got me thinking. Is there a difference between an elite player and one with elite skills? You look at guys like Hughes, McDavid, Draisatl, MacKinnon, Crosby Makar, Matthews and they can take over a game. Clearly they are elite in that sense in addition to having elite skills. But does having an elite skill make you an elite player? How do you define elite? Those guys aren’t traded. They stay with the organization that drafted them. They don’t just have elite skills, those are the guys that we look to to be the guy when needed. IOW, clutch. They’re a great value for what they bring. And they can be productive in different scenarios whether it’s offense, defense, two way play or at least not a constant liability. We don’t question their motivation to be the best they can on the ice. With Rants, I question his motivation/effort on ice and ability to be a dynamic offensive force. Rants is a great player with elite skills. But to do that, it appears he needs to be in the right situation to employ those elite skills to full effect.

As with so many other things, extraordinary talent is only meaningful when it’s paired with high effort. For professional athletes in particular, even a slight slip on effort is enough for a guy with slightly less talent to prevail. Rantanen’s been on the wrong end of that on a lot of shifts lately.

 

[jalapenoWithAnH]

but comments from Ismo Lekhonen may point to this lackadaisical nature carries over from the work he puts in during the off season.

This comes up fairly often in English based discussions. Seems to me that there is a misunderstanding as to what Ismo actually said.

Im a Finn so I can tell you that he didn't call Mikko lazy as some other people seem to think. Actually he did say the opposite: that Mikko had too much other stuff going during that particular summer break: world championships, junior camp, small events etc. He said Mikko is bad at saying no to others.

He did another interiew where he clarified his view because people got him wrong.

 

[flyfysher]

This comes up fairly often in English based discussions. Seems to me that there is a misunderstanding as to what Ismo actually said.

Im a Finn so I can tell you that he didn't call Mikko lazy as some other people seem to think. Actually he did say the opposite: that Mikko had too much other stuff going during that particular summer break: world championships, junior camp, small events etc. He said Mikko is bad at saying no to others.

He did another interiew where he clarified his view because people got him wrong.

Thank you. But Ismo didn’t make these observations about Rantanen not giving his full effort on a continuing basis. I did as an Avs fan from watching his play. And there were lots of Avs fans that feel the exact same way about Rants play for the Avs.

 

[BigTomBomber]

How do you define elite? Those guys aren’t traded.

Nico Harrison begs to differ

 

[Ncit3]

Another two assists for Marty. Looking really good with Brock and Lehky. Broke some ankles tonight, nearly missed a goal. Just overall so stoked about him being an Av.

 

[JoeSakic13]

I’m not sure when that change took place, but Necas has 3 points in his last 6 games — only 1 at even strength.

PP merchant Necas with 2 more points tonight.

 

[flyfysher]

PP merchant Necas with 2 more points tonight.

He looked incredible with Nelson. That developing chemistry was insane.

 

[famicommander]

Necas: 8 goals and 14 assists for 22 points in 23 games
Drury: 4 goals and 1 assist for 5 points in 23 games

Rantanen: 4 goals and 7 assists for 11 points in 21 games
-2 goals and 4 assists for 6 points in 13 games with Carolina
-2 goals and 3 assists for 5 points in 8 games with Dallas

 

[Boxscore]

Necas: 8 goals and 14 assists for 22 points in 23 games
Drury: 4 goals and 1 assist for 5 points in 23 games

Rantanen: 4 goals and 7 assists for 11 points in 21 games
-2 goals and 4 assists for 6 points in 13 games with Carolina
-2 goals and 3 assists for 5 points in 8 games with Dallas

This is scary, tbh. If you take Rantanen's production in Carolina and Dallas, he's scoring at a 43-point pace over 82 GP!! We can talk trades, being shocked, uprooting, new teammates, etc., but this guy is supposed to be a world-class, elite player who just signed an 8-year extension for 12 mil a pop. A 43-point pace is below-average production for a very good 3rd line player. At some point, the excuses will run dry if they haven't yet. We've all blamed the Avs, the Canes, the Stars, Brind'Amour, the Canes system, Robertson, Hintz, etc.

The fact is, Rantanen isn't getting it done... plain and simple. I've watched every game of his since he's been traded, and outside of 2-3 total, he's looked like a shell of himself... a completely different player. He looks slow, confused, frustrated, and out of sync. He's also made some very poor decisions, has flubbed passes and and lost puck battles.

I hate to say it, but not only has his production declined rapidly... I don't think he's improved Carolina or Dallas one bit. We can blame it on the trades, but I'm willing to bet everything I own that if we took Kucherov, McDavid, MacKinnon, Marner, Kaprizov, Tkachuk, etc. and put them on any other NHL team overnight, they'd acclimate themselves and still score at an elite level, or close to it!

 

[flyfysher]

This is scary, tbh. If you take Rantanen's production in Carolina and Dallas, he's scoring at a 43-point pace over 82 GP!! We can talk trades, being shocked, uprooting, new teammates, etc., but this guy is supposed to be a world-class, elite player who just signed an 8-year extension for 12 mil a pop. A 43-point pace is below-average production for a very good 3rd line player. At some point, the excuses will run dry if they haven't yet. We've all blamed the Avs, the Canes, the Stars, Brind'Amour, the Canes system, Robertson, Hintz, etc.

The fact is, Rantanen isn't getting it done... plain and simple. I've watched every game of his since he's been traded, and outside of 2-3 total, he's looked like a shell of himself... a completely different player. He looks slow, confused, frustrated, and out of sync. He's also made some very poor decisions, has flubbed passes and and lost puck battles.

I hate to say it, but not only has his production declined rapidly... I don't think he's improved Carolina or Dallas one bit. We can blame it on the trades, but I'm willing to bet everything I own that if we took Kucherov, McDavid, MacKinnon, Marner, Kaprizov, Tkachuk, etc. and put them on any other NHL team overnight, they'd acclimate themselves and still score at an elite level, or close to it!

$12M AAV X 8 years!

Avs fans - thrilled with the trades and how it has supercharged the team but regret at Rants going to the Stars. Still pleased with what the trade does to the Stars salary structure. Kinda like Marner of the Western Conference.

Canes fans - relieved they avoided a non return on their investment and pleasantly surprised with the return and how it’s turning out. Well stocked to make a serious run in the near future if they play their cards right.

Stars fans - ecstatic at having acquired a superstar player and annoyed about how management is playing him. Worried about his production.

 

[Boxscore]

Stars fans - ecstatic at having acquired a superstar player and annoyed about how management is playing him. Worried about his production.

The playoffs are a new season. And next year is truly a new season. If Rantanen doesn't perform better during both, Stars fans will not be happy, and rightfully so. Not only did they give up a sterling young player in Stankoven for him... they've also committed 12 mil of cap hit to him for 8 more years! That 12 mil could be spent on two excellent depth contributors who bring more attributes to the table. Rantanen needs to turn it around quick.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

If I'm not mistaken, Brock Nelson has taken Necas' spot on that top line since the deadline. And while Necas is still maintaining his point totals, he's getting less at even strength and more on the PP, no?

No, Nichushkin has moved up with Drouin to play with MacKinnon. Nelson has been centering Necas/Lehkonen

 

[BigTomBomber]

The playoffs are a new season. And next year is truly a new season. If Rantanen doesn't perform better during both, Stars fans will not be happy, and rightfully so. Not only did they give up a sterling young player in Stankoven for him... they've also committed 12 mil of cap hit to him for 8 more years! That 12 mil could be spent on two excellent depth contributors who bring more attributes to the table. Rantanen needs to turn it around quick.

Its Rantanen and 3 leage min players next year (~$15m)

vs

Stankoven, re-signing Duchene, re-signing Granlund, a veteran middle 6 FA signing, and then the 2 1sts and 2 3rds in the upcoming drafts

 

[Blueline Bomber]

No, Nichushkin has moved up with Drouin to play with MacKinnon. Nelson has been centering Necas/Lehkonen

Ah, I stand corrected then

 

[TatteredTornNFrayed]

Even within your team, there's a noticeable difference between playing with those two and not. If I'm not mistaken, Brock Nelson has taken Necas' spot on that top line since the deadline. And while Necas is still maintaining his point totals, he's getting less at even strength and more on the PP, no?

You are mistaken, for the most part. The primary change has not been Necas swapping with Nelson. Bednar, very briefly was trying Nelson with Mackinnon and Necas, but it was in an attempt to jumpstart Nelson, and wasn't really working.

The primary change in the last 3 or so games has been the following, basically swapping all of the wingers on the top 2 lines.

Previously:
Lehkonen Mackinnon Necas
Nichushkin Nelson Drouin

Now:
Nichushkin Mackinnon Drouin
Lehkonen Nelson Necas

And Nelson immediately took off.

(I see mangy Meowth already mentioned)

 

[Boxscore]

Its Rantanen and 3 leage min players next year (~$15m)

vs

Stankoven, re-signing Duchene, re-signing Granlund, a veteran middle 6 FA signing, and then the 2 1sts and 2 3rds in the upcoming drafts

Correct. For this to pan out, the Stars need a Cup and/or need Rantanen to be a 90-105 point monster. Anything less is a disappointment. Anything under a PPG should be considered a disaster.

 

[Ncit3]

You are mistaken, for the most part. The primary change has not been Necas swapping with Nelson. Bednar, very briefly was trying Nelson with Mackinnon and Necas, but it was in an attempt to jumpstart Nelson, and wasn't really working.

The primary change in the last 3 or so games has been the following, basically swapping all of the wingers on the top 2 lines.

Previously:
Lehkonen Mackinnon Necas
Nichushkin Nelson Drouin

Now:
Nichushkin Mackinnon Drouin
Lehkonen Nelson Necas

And Nelson immediately took off.

(I see mangy Meowth already mentioned)

It’s a fantastic balance. Top line has its play driver in THE play driver in Mack. A strong power forward in Nuke. And a guy that can pass and finish decently well. Second line is the light version of the top line. Necas drives the play, Lehky plays in the dirty areas, and Brock is the guy that can pass and finish well. I think Brock is better than Drouin but that also helps balance out the lines.

 

[landy]

Correct. For this to pan out, the Stars need a Cup and/or need Rantanen to be a 90-105 point monster. Anything less is a disappointment. Anything under a PPG should be considered a disaster.

The Cup may happen, but its highly unlikely for Rantanen to sniff his COL numbers. They are too deep and spread the wealth in Dallas.

 

[Kcb12345]

The Cup may happen, but its highly unlikely for Rantanen to sniff his COL numbers. They are too deep and spread the wealth in Dallas.

I think as a Stars fan i expect him to finish with slightly more points than Robertson each season. Would be disappointing if he didn't lead the team in scoring at least each season (although that depends on just how good Johnston becomes). Absolutely should lead them in goals every year I would hope

He won't be seeing that Colorado PP time though. So far in Dallas the PP shifts for him are 45 seconds to a minute and not a second longer when in Colorado I know sometimes their top unit played the full 2 mins. DeBoer is pretty quick to yank the top unit off the ice and won't hesitate to start the 2nd unit either for a PP. Last game that led to Dumba quarterbacking the Rantanen unit lol

 

[flyfysher]

I think as a Stars fan i expect him to finish with slightly more points than Robertson each season. Would be disappointing if he didn't lead the team in scoring at least each season (although that depends on just how good Johnston becomes). Absolutely should lead them in goals every year I would hope

He won't be seeing that Colorado PP time though. So far in Dallas the PP shifts for him are 45 seconds to a minute and not a second longer when in Colorado I know sometimes their top unit played the full 2 mins. DeBoer is pretty quick to yank the top unit off the ice and won't hesitate to start the 2nd unit either for a PP. Last game that led to Dumba quarterbacking the Rantanen unit lol

In the Stars system, how many points do you expect him to consistently score each season? I don’t know the Stars points leaders. Forget Rants’ present play or the trade episode in answering because it’s irrelevant. TIA.

 

[BigTomBomber]

In the Stars system, how many points do you expect him to consistently score each season? I don’t know the Stars points leaders. Forget Rants’ present play or the trade episode in answering because it’s irrelevant. TIA.

Dallas has had 8-10 players in the top 100 of pts/60 min the last couple seasons. Regardless of toi, he needs to be the #1 guy in Dallas and at least be close to pt/gm

 

[flyfysher]

Dallas has had 8-10 players in the top 100 of pts/60 min the last couple seasons. Regardless of toi, he needs to be the #1 guy in Dallas and at least be close to pt/gm

I would expect at least PPG. Maybe 90 points on the high side but I don’t see him as a 100 point winger. The cap down the road will change things but I couldn’t justify $12M AAV for 8 years at this time unless he drove play and could still accrue 90+ points away from Mack (which JB would never allow - TBF JB explained in his post game last night that the reason he relied so much on the top line was that it’s a results oriented biz and you can’t allow yourself to slip out of contention. It wasn’t like JB was wrong. Avs had a lot of injuries earlier. But it inflated Rants numbers). If Rants is truly just a PPG winger then it’s debatable at $10M. IMO, he should be at $9M+ That extra $2-3M is an awful lot in terms of what you can or can’t do in terms of building your lines and D pairings. You wanna avoid having to pay assets for retention. Trust me I know this all too well after this TDL.