Rantanen vs Necas points race to end of season.

[sepster]

I'm just going to track how the points race ends between these 2. They both have 32 games left.

Right now it is (updated after games)

Rants 4gp - 1G, !A
Necas 5gp - 1G, 4A

Is that 1 goal, 1 assist for Rantanen or 1 goal, 1 very exciting assist for Rantanen?

 

[avsfan2189]

its so funny to me that as avs fans that we'd try Necas at 2C first before just putting Necas as the 2RW with Mitts as the 2C.

Mitts needs to produce and having a play driver like Necas could be the spark he needs. Mitts has yet to play with a shoot first speedster on his wing. I can see Mitts processing the game around that and setting him up for some great plays

 

[GoCanes2015]

Necas' lifetime FOW% of 41% suggests he'd struggle at C in one of the main things C is asked to do. As for his entries, he's a bit schizophrenic. He *can* be really really good, or he *often* gets in but then challenges 3-4 guys at once, tries some dipsy doo stuff and turns it over, or attempts (poorly) some pass to a guy who can't catch it or anticipate it. $3 might be better on the Avs - the Canes seem to have a team disease of not being exceptionally good passers or even puck handlers, for that matter.

 

[Czechboy]

Is that 1 goal, 1 assist for Rantanen or 1 goal, 1 very exciting assist for Rantanen?

That one hand pass was sensational.

So 1G and 1 VEA?

I think he's due for a hat trick personally.

 

[flyfysher]

`I know Canes fans have told us Necas at C doesn’t work but I want to try it for a few games anyways. His capabilities at zone entry is undeniable and from what I recall the knock from fans was that he didn’t use his linemates. Here, he’s been spectacular at that so maybe with the change of scenery and the presumed bump in confidence in having fit in immediately, I think it makes a lot of sense to at least try it.

If they can find a way to successfully separate MacKinnon and Necas, the Avs forward depth is very good.

His points might take a hit but the team depth would be much better off, and having two lines with speedsters like that will make it hard for opponents to defend.

 

[sepster]

That one hand pass was sensational.

So 1G and 1 VEA?

I think he's due for a hat trick personally.

Very Exciting Assist (VEA) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Primary Assist.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Well you’re following all my posts around like a little puppy dog with your laugh reactions so thought you would want to be included. Bring you in from the cold so you don’t have to have your nose pressed up against the window

Hahahaha, buddy I'm reading all of the posts in this thread, and some of yours just happen to be funny to me. I've never seen a poster be more melodramatic about a couple emojis in all of my years here

 

[Avsfan1921]

its so funny to me that as avs fans that we'd try Necas at 2C first before just putting Necas as the 2RW with Mitts as the 2C.

Mitts needs to produce and having a play driver like Necas could be the spark he needs. Mitts has yet to play with a shoot first speedster on his wing. I can see Mitts processing the game around that and setting him up for some great plays

I think that’s a great alternative to try as well, but both those alternatives should be tried imo.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Yes, there are series where we got goalied, but there are series where we didn't. And you also have to look at the idea that maybe we didn't get goalied as much as we thought and perhaps our players just didn't execute as well as they should have. I'm sure it's a bit of both.

We have often taken the position that scoring is what has let us down in the playoffs and not the goaltending matchups. Perhaps it is a bit of bad timing in that the series that when he got 'goalied' our goalies were generally good as well and then in the series where our forwards did score more, our goalies didn't shut the door. That's the playoffs though. At the end of the day you have to find a way to get it done.

This is why I think it would give us a lot of perspective if we looked at the goalies’ PK saves and save% in those series. If the volume of shots is going down, that signals a fall-off of offensive effectiveness by the skaters. If the volume stays the same but save% is way over average, while it’s possible that a dozen different skaters are suddenly taking terrible shots, it’s a lot more likely that the goalie is just playing really well. Especially since Rod’s PP system puts so much emphasis on screened shots from the point, which would seem to have little variance in quality.

Without having the data in front of me, just based on the eye test and the fact that we’re talking about peak performance from three of the best goalies of their generation, my guess is that the Canes generated plenty of shot volume during those PPs but were stymied by goalies stopping everything thrown at them (certainly that was the case with Bobrovsky who was superhuman in that series).

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Necas as a C has been debated on the Canes board to death. It is true that we have not seen it implemented for any meaningful time the circumstantial evidence has led us to believe that Necas doesn't quite have the right play style to excel there.

Pros
- Speed
- Zone entries
- Good at puck possession
- Gives lots of effort

Cons
- Bad at faceoffs
- Does not always use teammates to the best of their ability (but showing big improvement there this year)
- Lone wolf mentality and can be hard for his teammates to predict or anticipate
- Not defensively aware (focuses on offense almost solely)
- Can find himself out of position

Now could Necas be an effective C at the NHL level? Sure. His skillset is elite but he would probably have to change his approach to the game and maybe that takes away from what makes him great at what he does.

To a lot of us he seems to be perfectly cast as an offensive winger with high end skills to back that up.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Necas is a puck hungry 5 on 5 wizard that can carry non superstars.

But he’s never carried anyone before, which is a big part of why he was traded in the first place.

A version of Necas who carries his linemates, rather than ignoring them, would be very different than the Necas we have seen to date. He has thrived as a playmaker in a short stint next to MacKinnon, but that’s very different from doing the same long term next to Mittelstadt.

 

[OilersFanatics505]

And one of these players involved in the trade has won something in the last half decade...

And he’s being outpaced by or on pace with both players he was traded for.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

But he’s never carried anyone before, which is a big part of why he was traded in the first place.

What would you suggest he was doing this year when he was leading the team in points from the 2nd line with Robinson and Kotkaniemi?

 

[OilersFanatics505]

What would you suggest he was doing this year when he was leading the team in points from the 2nd line with Robinson and Kotkaniemi?

Shhh you’re using too much logic for him.

 

[tarheelhockey]

What would you suggest he was doing this year when he was leading the team in points from the 2nd line with Robinson and Kotkaniemi?

That was the best run of chemistry/playmaking he’s had in his career, and it was widely talked about on our board that maybe he finally figured out that he needed to use his linemates to unlock his own potential. Then he fell back into the same old habits and went something like 3 weeks without figuring into a goal with either of his ES linemates. That led directly into the trade.

It would be reasonable to expect something similar if he were deployed on the Avs’ second line. I’m not even saying he can’t thrive in that role. It’s a question of how he wants to play the game, whether he activates all the tools in his toolbox. It’s one thing to play that role next to a MacKinnon who can maximize the potential of every pass and make you look like a genius playmaker, it’s another to do it with a Mittelstadt or Kotkaniemi who need to be actively carried. That the part that we haven’t seen from him with any consistency.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

What would you suggest he was doing this year when he was leading the team in points from the 2nd line with Robinson and Kotkaniemi?

And everyone knows you should judge a player off a hot streak and ignore the rest of his career. Canes fans have seen Necas play every game of his career. You think maybe they've got more insight into his play than most others?

 

[flyfysher]

And everyone knows you should judge a player off a hot streak and ignore the rest of his career. Canes fans have seen Necas play every game of his career. You think maybe they've got more insight into his play than most others?

The bolded raises a question for me. In general, how knowledgeable are the fans of your team on the HFB about your team overall? About other teams? For the regulars on the Avs forum, I think they’re very knowledgeable, at least compared to me.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The bolded raises a question for me. In general, how knowledgeable are the fans of your team on the HFB about your team overall? About other teams? For the regulars on the Avs forum, I think they’re very knowledgeable, at least compared to me.

There aren’t a lot of short-term fans on the Canes board. I’d say there’s a core of roughly 20 users who do 90% of the talking and have been members of the board since before Necas was a rookie, with only a couple of exceptions.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

And everyone knows you should judge a player off a hot streak and ignore the rest of his career. Canes fans have seen Necas play every game of his career. You think maybe they've got more insight into his play than most others?

An entire season up to this point, including a cold streak, is a hot streak?

Gotcha

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

The bolded raises a question for me. In general, how knowledgeable are the fans of your team on the HFB about your team overall? About other teams? For the regulars on the Avs forum, I think they’re very knowledgeable, at least compared to me.

We only like players who can turn left because of NASCAR. Thats about the extent of our hockey knowledge

An entire season up to this point, including a cold streak, is a hot streak?

Gotcha

So 50 games vs. 370 games. This is the question you’re asking?

 

[a mangy Meowth]

We only like players who can turn left because of NASCAR. Thats about the extent of our hockey knowledge


So 50 games vs. 370 games. This is the question you’re asking?

No, you guys are right. We should maybe even just throw those all out (hot streak) and instead judge him right now based off of his earlier career (beeg sample size).

 

[Blueline Bomber]

An entire season up to this point, including a cold streak, is a hot streak?

Gotcha

The hot streak was when he got something like 33 points in 20 games. And then in the 29 games that followed it until his trade, he had 22 points, which is much more in line with his career. You know, his previous 350+ games?

But I'm sure you're right. Those 20 games are definitely a big enough sample size to dismiss the rest of his career.

 

[flyfysher]

There aren’t a lot of short-term fans on the Canes board. I’d say there’s a core of roughly 20 users who do 90% of the talking and have been members of the board since before Necas was a rookie, with only a couple of exceptions.

Yeah, there are many long time regulars on the Avs board, many of whiom are knowledgeable about other teams too. But overall, I do appreciate the insights which other fan bases have offered on their players or former players.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Upon some light research, it looks like Necas also led the team in points in the 2022-23 season.

Was that also a hot streak?

 

[GirardSpinorama]

The hot streak was when he got something like 33 points in 20 games. And then in the 29 games that followed it until his trade, he had 22 points, which is much more in line with his career. You know, his previous 350+ games?

But I'm sure you're right. Those 20 games are definitely a big enough sample size to dismiss the rest of his career.

I mean if he kept up that pace, he wouldnt have been traded away for a UFA. The skill to carry those players for 20 games is impressive though, rantanen had maybe 20 games without Mack a few seasons back.