ncm7772
Registered User
OP, very cool post.
However, you were inspired by an ESPN article??!!
However, you were inspired by an ESPN article??!!
Ranking the NHL's GMs
- Thread starter Wayne Primeau
- Start date
Bouboumaster
Registered User
- Jul 4, 2014
- 10,681
- 9,047
Not really commenting on the ranking itself but this would be something where I would start.
Drafting
Trading
UFA signings
RFA signings
Salary cap handling
All ranked from 1 to 5, so maximum would be 25. Before any evaluation can be made (for new GMs) they would be ranked 2/5.
Drafting
Trading
UFA signings
RFA signings
Salary cap handling
All ranked from 1 to 5, so maximum would be 25. Before any evaluation can be made (for new GMs) they would be ranked 2/5.
X66
114-110
- Aug 18, 2008
- 13,585
- 7,461
The Leafs added a Vet with elite speed, great size, great two-way ability and capable of 20+ goals for nothing but money.
If the Leafs(or any team) offered Marleau 4-5 million, he would not be on their team.
The contract is also heavily front loaded, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if there is an agreement between player and team that he accepts a trade to a team trying to make the cap floor and retires there.
ThirdManIn
Registered User
- Aug 9, 2009
- 55,115
- 4,034
Here's a run down of David Poile and his teams post-lockout.
2005-2006: coming out of their first ever playoff appearance followed by a lockout, Poile had put together a team that was good for 106 points, or sixth overall in the league. His goalie ended up having a blood clot in his stomach and couldn't play in the playoffs due to being in blood thinners. Nashville lost in the first round.
2006-2007: the Predators were a legitimate contender, so much so that Peter Forsberg agreed to waive his NMC to go to Nashville at the deadline. With key injuries, the Predators met the Sharks again in the first round, the team with whom Nashville was tied for most wins in the conference. That team had 110 points, three points shy of the division lead (Detroit had 113; 1 fewer win than Nashville, but 5 more OT losses).
That summer, Poile was forced to either trade or not re-sign the following players: Vokoun (traded just before his new contract kicked in with a NMC), Kariya, Hartnell & Timonen (both traded to Philly for futures), Forsberg (unsure if he would have returned anyway, but Poile wasn't given the chance).
2007-2008: after a firesale forced by Craig Leipold, it seemed like their three-season run at the playoffs was over, and they would once again be relegated to mediocrity. Except that isn't how it ended up playing out. Chris Mason did well enough in net. The top line of Dumont-Arnott-Radulov had a long stretch of being one of the most productive lines in the league. They were good for 91 points that year, and made it into the playoffs.
It was during that season that the current ownership group took over. This is a group made up of successful businessmen, and they had no intentions of the team being a losing investment. They knew in order to keep the team in Nashville they had to make it financially-stable, a tall task after noted terrible businessman Craig Leipold did his best to run the team into the ground. That meant, of course, not spending more than was necessary to be above the cap floor and to ice a team competitive enough to get the attention of new fans. It was a process that would take years.
2008-2009: Radulov bounced over the summer. Nashville missed the playoffs this year for the first time since 2004, but they just barely missed and as such were not rewarded with a high draft pick. At this point in time, Poile's last pick in the top 5 was in his first draft as the Nashville GM (and he wouldn't have one of those until 2013).
2009-2010: Nashville was once again a 100 point team, missing the division title by 2 points (Detroit - 102). They made the playoffs and continued their history of losing to the eventual Western Conference champs (Chicago, who won their first of three recent Cups that year), though Nashville certainly gave Chicago their toughest series and had a solid chance of returning to Nashville with a series lead until Erat, for reasons still unknown, made a boneheaded play on the powerplay with under 2 minutes to go, turned the puck over, and led to a Hossa goal (Hossa should have been ejected from the game for a reckless board on Hamhuis earlier in the game, too).
2010-2011: This is the first year they finally got over that first round hump, but they continued their tradition of losing to the WC champs by losing to the Canucks in the second round (again, taking the team through a grueling series). It's really at this point that things began to noticeably change for the better, both on and off the ice.
2011-2012: I'm not sure if you recall, but after the trade deadline in 2012, a deadline in which Poile was making moves that tended to show he thought the team was ready to make the next jump, Radulov was rumored to be interested in coming back. Teams in the conference freaked out, particularly Detroit, who was the likely first round match-up for the Preds. Nashville beat Detroit in that first round, getting rid of that particular monkey on their backs, and finally didn't lose to the eventual WC champs. Instead, they lost to a suffocating Phoenix team with a goalie in the zone, a team who would get steamrolled by the Kings during their dominant run to the Cup.
If it hadn't been clear before this point that Barry Trotz was not the coach to take the Preds to the next level, this is when it really began to come into focus. The next two seasons would have the Predators out of the playoffs, and in 2013 they would draft in the top 5 for the first time since their inaugural draft. They selected Seth Jones, and after this 2013-2014 season the team really began to take a new direction. Over the 2014 summer Poile hired Laviolette, the opposite of Trotz. He traded for Neal to get a true sniper on the team. The year before he had traded for Forsberg, who was struggling to make the Trotz team but who found a nice fit with Laviolette. The 2014 trade deadline saw Legwand sent to Detroit for another playoff run, and Jarnkrok was brought back to replace him. By the beginning of 2016, Poile had traded Jones for Johansen to finally get the top line center Nashville had been missing since 2008 when Arnott was still productive enough to play that role. That summer, Poile made one of the boldest trades we have seen in the NHL in a while by trading then-captain Shea Weber for PK Subban.
The Predators were once again contenders.
I get if your problem with Poile is that he took too long to fire Trotz. I get it if your problem is he hasn't won a Cup with a team, but this idea that he took nearly two decades to build a contender in Nashville is based on falsehoods. Quite simply, it took him about ten years to turn an expansion team into a contender, and in those ten years not only did he have a season lost to a lock out but he had an incompetent owner paying the bills. In the ten years that followed he had to deal with a firesale, a team sale, a rebuilding of the team's finances, and a renewed effort to get fans in the seats consistently, meaning his job was basically to ensure the team was competitive (no tanks, no high picks, but playoff pushes to sell tickets to build a solid fanbase). He had a good team within four years of the sale, and he had a contender within eight years. Further, the season after he left Washington, the Caps went to the Cup final with a team he largely put together himself.
During his tenure with the Predators David Poile has drafted the following:
Legwand, Erat, Hartnell, Hamhuis, Suter, Weber, Klein, Radulov, Rinne, Hornqvist, Josi, Ellis, Smith, Ekholm, Jones, Saros, Fiala, Arvidsson, and some other guys who are still too young to know for sure if they will be good NHLers (Girard, Fabbro, Tolvanen). Six of those listed players were used in trades to help create the current core. Thirteen current Predators' roster players were drafted by the team, so that's nineteen players who were drafted by Poile who either currently still play for Nashville or were used as trade bait to get players Nashville needed (Forsberg, Jarnkork, Neal, Johansen, Subban, Turris).
He may not be the best GM in the league, but the statement that it took him 18 or 19 years to build a contender is patently false, and judging his performance based solely on contending teams or Cup winners ignores a ton of context that made Poile's one of the most difficult General Manager jobs in the NHL over at least the past decade.
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Yes, I'm aware of the draft picks involved, but I'm still not sold on whether trading Schenn was a good idea.
GreeningOil
Yarpmeister
b1e9a8r5s
Registered User
As others have said, Bowman is way way too low. He's had so much more success than most on the list and that has to matter. He's got his work cut out for him right now, which he has to take some blame for but 20th is ridiculous.
fsanford
Registered User
- Jul 4, 2009
- 7,804
- 3,194
Blake did not overpay Toffoli or Pearson based on 1 good year, (the guy before him would have overpaid).
Phaneuf (with a small sample size) has stabilized the Kings blue line, he does remind me Regehr in many respects. The fact that he could move Gabby for a serviceable player was pretty amazing, plus he got Sens to eat part of the the salary.
Sounds like he is not gonna trade for a rental. I think back when Lombardi traded for Sekera, only to see dude go down and Kings miss the playoffs. Fortunately the Oilers saved the Kings bacon on that contract and Lucic.
Blake given what he was dealt has actually done a very solid job thus far. The Doughty contract will be the next big thing on his agenda,
He seems to be less enamored with guys than Lombardi, that is probably a good thing
Phaneuf (with a small sample size) has stabilized the Kings blue line, he does remind me Regehr in many respects. The fact that he could move Gabby for a serviceable player was pretty amazing, plus he got Sens to eat part of the the salary.
Sounds like he is not gonna trade for a rental. I think back when Lombardi traded for Sekera, only to see dude go down and Kings miss the playoffs. Fortunately the Oilers saved the Kings bacon on that contract and Lucic.
Blake given what he was dealt has actually done a very solid job thus far. The Doughty contract will be the next big thing on his agenda,
He seems to be less enamored with guys than Lombardi, that is probably a good thing
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Gms dont draft, so this article is bogus there and also Drouin hasnt played a snap at wing this year.
Its basically a ranking for this year?
Its basically a ranking for this year?
That's fine, but you did present it as the "Schenn-for-Lehtera" deal. Nobody would be sold on that deal. The Flyers had to take on Lehtera to balance out the salary swap, and they wanted to open up a top-six slot for their rising prospects. Does seem like a great example of a win-win deal, unless Frost & the other first rounder flame out.
I don't get the fascination with Ron Francis. I understand he works with limited budget, but he's really got nothing but a few high draft picks to show for it.
Drouin was very notably shifted away from centre earlier this year, so what's he playing now, goalie?
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Duffalufagus
Registered User
- Jan 4, 2017
- 1,684
- 991
I am a Flames fan and I think Trelliving is too high. The Gaudreau contract may be the best value in hockey, but he has not put together a contending team in the time he has been here. That has to move him down the list. Also, although he is coming around, we way overpaid for Hamonic.
The Macho King
Back* to Back** World Champion
- Jun 22, 2011
- 49,052
- 29,887
A wild Pierre Dorion appears!
OvermanKingGainer
#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Pretty close. I might have had Calgary and Uncle Lou ranked a little lower. First with Calgary, they have struggled between the pipes and their recent moves didn't get them back into playoff contention. Uncle Lou, while a very good GM, benefited from working with Shanahan and his group before taking the Toronto job. They did most of the heavy lifting, including a scouting department that stocked their top 6 for the foreseeable future. All Lou had to do was not mess it up. Also, for Hextall, his ranking is probably deserved but I wish people would stop saying he dealt Schenn for Lehtera. Hextall made the trade to get 2, not 1, first round picks. The second one was payment for the salary dump. He got good value for that salary dump - they usually yield 3rd - 4th rounders. But of course, Schenn's value was higher than just one pick, so this was right in line with an expected return. Fast forward to the end of the season, the Schenn deal (or any other deals) did not get the Blues into the playoffs, so I have to ask, why is Armstrong rated so highly? It can be argued he let Carter Hutton leave for nothing too. Now, he made a bunch of deals this off season to improve the club, but if you look at them in total, he paid top prices for all of them. Before I let go of Armstrong, I ask...what are they planning to do with all of the ready draft picks looking for roster spots on a roster that has been filled with veterans from all of these off season deals? I'm not buying Armstrong's rating at all, you can slip the Winnepeg GM into that slot. He's done a good job.
EdmFlyersfan
Registered User
TarasenkosForearm
Registered User
- Oct 21, 2017
- 3,119
- 3,195
He did not pay anywhere near top prices. He dumps Sobotka and Bergie, with a B player in Thompson for O'Reilly...Schenn had a phenomenal year, the Blues missed because injuries hurt them as did the power play scheme.
Brownies
Registered User
Usually, a guy with a cup could not possibly be ranked as the worst GM (in a league where Bergevin is employed), but Chiarelli is really doing his best to surprise us all.
LetsGoBLUES91
Registered User
- Jan 8, 2013
- 9,188
- 3,115
Woo. Thank you. I was about to absolutely explode.
TK 421
Barbashev eats babies pass it on
- Sep 12, 2007
- 6,612
- 6,458
The Schenn deal served 2 purposes. No1 was simply to acquire a top 6 forward, and the 2nd was obviously to clear out Lehtera's cap. You are incorrectly gauging that situation imo. The Blues have been retooling for 2 seasons, they've been reshaping their roster during that time and Schenn was just one piece of that. Judging whether or not it was a good trade based on the Blues making the PO's last year seems really shortsighted. Not only did Schenn work out, he exploded at center where the Blues were desperate for help.
Hutton could be a big loss, guy was largely fantastic for us last year. This Blues management is pretty good at identifying backups who no one thinks are good but who end up posting career seasons here(Elliott,Hutton) so not sure I'd go calling that a loss just yet.
Maroon is way under market value, so is Perron. Bozak was an FA Center who got paid right around what you would expect for his production. Not sure if you haven't figured in the new cap # yet to account for whatever discrepancy you think there is but consensus is that the Blues paid under market value when you look at those 3's production with Bozak closest to market price.
You mentioned the top prospects now being blocked from ice time and yes that's basically true in that the team doesn't have 3-4 forward spots open now. However....this is a team adding Robby Fabbri back and Robert Thomas as part of the 13 forwards. Not really a big deal if Kyrou and Kostin start in S.A. with Fabbri and Thomas coming in.
You asked why Armstrong is so highly rated but have a look at the point totals his Blues teams have put up in his tenure and it shouldn't be hard to figure out. If you want to judge him on 2 retooling seasons I'm going to suggest you consider a larger sample size. You don't seem to be understanding how good he is at trades either, guy is a Jedi.
I still remember him gaming Bryan Murray so that the Blues could draft both Schwartz and Tarasenko. The recent trade with Buffalo for instance, that was sorcerer level **** right there. He has pulled off TRADING for 2 top 6 centers in consecutive off seasons, one of those trades was overwhelmingly in the Blues favor to the point of absurdity. The other got us a 70 point season at center out of Schenn.
I don't see how anyone could really build a case saying he's bad. He actually rates well in most categories. His flubs tend to be bad term extensions, (Berglund, Allen, Lehtera) but otherwise he's a good cap manager, excellent in trades and very good at coordinating trades with his amateur staff on the fly during the draft.
