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Ranking Dubas' worst transactions - #3

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What was Dubas' worst transaction?

  • Matthews contract

    Votes: 11 12.4%

  • Mrzaek contract

    Votes: 6 6.7%

  • Marchment trade

    Votes: 1 1.1%

  • Marleau trade

    Votes: 7 7.9%

  • Murray trade

    Votes: 16 18.0%

  • Kadri trade

    Votes: 33 37.1%

  • Foligno trade

    Votes: 9 10.1%

  • Protecting Holl over McCann

    Votes: 6 6.7%
  • Total voters
    89
  • Poll closed .
hamzarocks said:
Not trading Nylander for Pietrangelo when he held out


He is on a team further away from contending and one on the decline

He got paid more yeah but he still has little legacy in the league outside of failure

He's chasing money so kudos to him but a better job would have been on a team on the upswing not downswing while making 6-7M
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How much are they paying him in Pittsburg?
 
notbias said:
No need to get upset for pointing out a fact... he has a better job now. The negotiation went great for him in the end.

Shanny got his second choice and looks dumb for it.
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Not even Dubas thinks he has a better job now. He may have a higher title, but it’s for a worse organization.
 
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ACC1224 said:
How much are they paying him in Pittsburg?
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Think it was reported he got 7M for 7 years

Sp similar to Babcock who was a huge hire in 2015 when we got him (6.25M for 8 years)

Babcock had prior succsess and a strong reputation

Dubas has his brock sports managment degree and half a decade as the GM of one of the most promising franchises in the team wasted

Fenway sports group has its fair shair of nepotism like MLSE

People say Treliving came here due to his fathers friendship with MLSE/individual owner

Well dubas was rumored to get the job partially due to being childhood friends with one of the major shareholders at FSG
 
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Jamason said:
I think not so much trading him, but the return.
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Eh let's not pretend Kadri had some kinda great trade value. He was a 50ish point player that happened to be one of the most undisciplined players in the league. Getting Barrie was actually decent value.

Problem is only a shit for brains GM like Dubas could look at this team and think a defensively challenged team like the Leafs needed a player like Tyson Barrie

Still not one of his worst moves
 
JKG33 said:
Eh let's not pretend Kadri had some kinda great trade value. He was a 50ish point player that happened to be one of the most undisciplined players in the league. Getting Barrie was actually decent value.

Problem is only a shit for brains GM like Dubas could look at this team and think a defensively challenged team like the Leafs needed a player like Tyson Barrie

Still not one of his worst moves
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I don't think it was the worst, but just giving my opinion on why others do (which was your question).

It was not so much the 'trading Kadri' as the poor return.

Whether you think he was great and got a mediocre return, or (as you say) he was mediocre and got a terrible return, it was bad.
 
I lump the RFA extensions together.

Covid wasn't Dubas' fault. Gambling on the teams payroll and roster construction was. Not pivoting when the cap wasn't rising made things worse.

Before criticizing Dubas I try to see things from his point of view first.

The only problem is I can't stick my head up my ass. So I'm probably giving him too much credit here. But I tend to think Dubas deliberately drove up RFA prices.

In attempt to screw over the small market teams.

To make it difficult for them to afford star power. It backfired. He got caught holding three of the highest salaries in the league.

At the worst time possible to be doing so.

As the salary cap crunch tightened he refused to alter his strategy. The team stagnated under his tenure as a result. The inevitable conclusion of a massive gamble timed so perfectly wrong it almost seems scripted.

Another master class in asset management, Kyle Dubas style.
 
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Jamason said:
I don't think it was the worst, but just giving my opinion on why others do (which was your question).

It was not so much the 'trading Kadri' as the poor return.

Whether you think he was great and got a mediocre return, or (as you say) he was mediocre and got a terrible return, it was bad.
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The return itself wasn't bad in a vacuum. An average 2C for a #3D is pretty fair value. The problem is the Leafs were on a food stamp budget and Dubas went out and bought booze. The last thing they needed was another soft, defensive liability.

I also think there's a lot of revisionist history here around Kadri. They see the PPG player that won a cup and think that's what the Leafs gave up. The thing is, that was one season when coincidently he needed to get paid. People forget about the countless suspensions leaving the team with $4.5m that could've been spent on someone who could play in the playoffs. They forget he was a top 10 pick who couldn't even unseat Tyler Bozak as 1C on some awful Leafs teams. And they don't see the overpaid liability he's been in Calgary.

The funniest part about all this is Kadri declining a trade to Calgary because he was too good for them, only for him to come crawling back there when they were the only team stupid enough to pay him. I can't believe I'm defending Dubas here, but had Brodie been a Leaf a year or two sooner in this trade, it doesn't look bad at all. But Kadri had to f*** over the Leafs one last time on his way out the door.
 
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TMLBlueandWhite said:
I lump the RFA extensions together.

Covid wasn't Dubas' fault. Gambling on the teams payroll and roster construction was. Not pivoting when the cap wasn't rising made things worse.

Before criticizing Dubas I try to see things from his point of view first.

The only problem is I can't stick my head up my ass. So I'm probably giving him too much credit here. But I tend to think Dubas deliberately drove up RFA prices.

In attempt to screw over the small market teams.

To make it difficult for them to afford star power. It backfired. He got caught holding three of the highest salaries in the league.

At the worst time possible to be doing so.

As the salary cap crunch tightened he refused to alter his strategy. The team stagnated under his tenure as a result. The inevitable conclusion of a massive gamble timed so perfectly wrong it almost seems scripted.

Another master class in asset management, Kyle Dubas style.
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This gave me a good laugh, well done.

I do think you're giving him too much credit. Don't attribute to malice what could easily be explained by stupidity. Dubas was a boy in a man's world, and he simply got bent right over in negotiations. He was too concerned about being buddy-buddy with the stars he forgot he's representing the team.

Matthews and Marner's agents probably pointed to the Tavares deal and said my client is better, so he deserves more. Instead of using literally any other RFA ever and explaining why they have no leverage, Dubas caved immediately and paid them UFA money for RFA years.

I highly doubt he was thinking about screwing over the rest of the league or the small market teams in particular. He's so arrogant that it just might be true
 
JKG33 said:
This gave me a good laugh, well done.

I do think you're giving him too much credit. Don't attribute to malice what could easily be explained by stupidity. Dubas was a boy in a man's world, and he simply got bent right over in negotiations. He was too concerned about being buddy-buddy with the stars he forgot he's representing the team.

Matthews and Marner's agents probably pointed to the Tavares deal and said my client is better, so he deserves more. Instead of using literally any other RFA ever and explaining why they have no leverage, Dubas caved immediately and paid them UFA money for RFA years.

I highly doubt he was thinking about screwing over the rest of the league or the small market teams in particular. He's so arrogant that it just might be true
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Thanks for the response.

You're probably right.

I try and give people the benefit of doubt. At this point I don't think there is any doubt that Dubas really was just a bad negotiator though. When Dubas goes in to negotiate contracts he has charts, papers, and pens in his briefcase.

When agents go in to negotiate contracts they have zip ties, duct tape, and vaseline in theirs.
 
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notbias said:
No need to get upset for pointing out a fact... he has a better job now. The negotiation went great for him in the end.

Shanny got his second choice and looks dumb for it.
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His "second choice" brought in more legitimate support scoring in 1 day, July 2nd than Dubas did in 5 years
 
LEAFANFORLIFE23 said:
His "second choice" brought in more legitimate support scoring in 1 day, July 2nd than Dubas did in 5 years
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The defensive play got SIGNIFICANTLY worse.

Also, depth scoring looks terrible if we don't have those cheap players to fill in the gaps (Knies/Holmberg/Jarnkrok)

I also think that these are the two most overrated signings ever due to their names.

Bertuzzi put up 30 pts in 50 games (16 in 21 on Bos) and Domi put up 56 in 80 (7 in 20 away from Kane)

They are complimentary players or should be pushed further down the lineup...

I am happy with the signings because we can sacrifice some defensive play for scoring. But these aren't guaranteed top line players coming in, the core is the engine, these playes are complimentary pieces.
 
JKG33 said:
The return itself wasn't bad in a vacuum. An average 2C for a #3D is pretty fair value. The problem is the Leafs were on a food stamp budget and Dubas went out and bought booze. The last thing they needed was another soft, defensive liability.

I also think there's a lot of revisionist history here around Kadri. They see the PPG player that won a cup and think that's what the Leafs gave up. The thing is, that was one season when coincidently he needed to get paid. People forget about the countless suspensions leaving the team with $4.5m that could've been spent on someone who could play in the playoffs. They forget he was a top 10 pick who couldn't even unseat Tyler Bozak as 1C on some awful Leafs teams. And they don't see the overpaid liability he's been in Calgary.

The funniest part about all this is Kadri declining a trade to Calgary because he was too good for them, only for him to come crawling back there when they were the only team stupid enough to pay him. I can't believe I'm defending Dubas here, but had Brodie been a Leaf a year or two sooner in this trade, it doesn't look bad at all. But Kadri had to f*** over the Leafs one last time on his way out the door.
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The 'countless suspensions' was four, but other than that, I agree.

As I said, just trying to explain why other people vote for that one.
 
Magic Man said:
It is a better trade than his move down trade involving Mrazek. Which is listed in his best move list.
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signing Mrazek = bad
trading Mrazek = good

I think one of the best things about him was he moved away from things that weren't working.

They may have been problems he caused, but lots of GMs cause problems and then refuse to fix them
 
notbias said:
signing Mrazek = bad
trading Mrazek = good

I think one of the best things about him was he moved away from things that weren't working.

They may have been problems he caused, but lots of GMs cause problems and then refuse to fix them
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I don't think dropping 13 spots out of the first round should be a celebrated move. He was fixing his mistake and even if you want to look at each move separately the trade itself wasn't good, he used a 1st round pick to shed a contract.
 
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Magic Man said:
I don't think dropping 13 spots out of the first round should be a celebrated move. He was fixing his mistake and even if you want to look at each move separately the trade itself wasn't good, he used a 1st round pick to shed a contract.
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It was a great trade, a bad signing. Not sure how it can be viewed differently.

They traded 25th for 38th, it sounds a lot worse than out of the first round. Both are true, but one is more accurate.

Based on what people thought the price was vs what was actually paid, A+.

F signing.
 
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