Rangers Season Tickets Holders: Part XII

[dstoffa]

When I started I was paying $17 per tix for the chance at the cup and everyone loved the seats for the price..

Now my seats are $138. Perhaps the view is a bit better without the walking ring but still...... is the demand as strong at that price?

IN 1992 MSG wanted as many fulls seasons as they could get. I always believe the tix were a bit on the inexpensive side. I thought MSG was leaving a bit of money on the table just to sell seats.

IMO: Maximizing tix prices seems to be today's goal so I was willing to give the next generation the shot at some great seats.

The economics of the game have changed on so many levels. The economics of the game are now intermingled with everything from TV deals to ticket prices to in-arena sales to non-revenue-sharing arena income.

It's not maximizing ticket prices, but maximizing revenue.
Sure, the Garden can sell all 18,000 seats out every night if they lower prices, but they can generate more revenue without selling-out every seat if they charge higher prices for seats that command it. In 1992, the Rangers had what, six price points, based on the pre-renovation seat colors? Now there must be no less than 100... They charge more for the seats that command a higher price (on the resale market), but don't sell every one of them anymore.

Look at other professional sports. The NHL is not the only one charging high prices...

 

[tailgunner]

the Armageddon of ticket sales is coming...MSG will have a huge problem in the next few years with this greedy mess they have consumed themselves with

 

[GordonGecko]

The economics of the game have changed on so many levels. The economics of the game are now intermingled with everything from TV deals to ticket prices to in-arena sales to non-revenue-sharing arena income.

It's not maximizing ticket prices, but maximizing revenue.
Sure, the Garden can sell all 18,000 seats out every night if they lower prices, but they can generate more revenue without selling-out every seat if they charge higher prices for seats that command it. In 1992, the Rangers had what, six price points, based on the pre-renovation seat colors? Now there must be no less than 100... They charge more for the seats that command a higher price (on the resale market), but don't sell every one of them anymore.

Look at other professional sports. The NHL is not the only one charging high prices...

Dolan was on the Kay show last week and he admitted that he was shocked that the place still sells out no matter how much the teams suck. So he isn't going to drop prices because the Garden is an entertainment /hospitality venue now instead of a sports competition venue. hat brings a completely different crowd who will come and pay no matter what

 

[yankeejimbeam]

Someone mentioned that they saw stubhub increase the sell fee for certain games. The Mets sent me an email saying stubhub is introducing a variable sell fee on April 1 (can increase to 15%) but is guaranteeing a 10% fee for tickets sold as automatic download/transfer. You have to complete a short survey which basically asks what kind of plan you have and what you do with your tickets (I have half for Mets and full for Yanks). It looks like the guarantee works for any MLB plan. I've sold jet tickets via automatic transfer on stubhub so hope that's included as well.

I have seen similar emails from Red Sox and Yanks.

 

[ltrangerfan]

The economics of the game have changed on so many levels. The economics of the game are now intermingled with everything from TV deals to ticket prices to in-arena sales to non-revenue-sharing arena income.

It's not maximizing ticket prices, but maximizing revenue.
Sure, the Garden can sell all 18,000 seats out every night if they lower prices, but they can generate more revenue without selling-out every seat if they charge higher prices for seats that command it. In 1992, the Rangers had what, six price points, based on the pre-renovation seat colors? Now there must be no less than 100... They charge more for the seats that command a higher price (on the resale market), but don't sell every one of them anymore.

Look at other professional sports. The NHL is not the only one charging high prices...

 

[dstoffa]

Dolan was on the Kay show last week and he admitted that he was shocked that the place still sells out no matter how much the teams suck. So he isn't going to drop prices because the Garden is an entertainment /hospitality venue now instead of a sports competition venue. hat brings a completely different crowd who will come and pay no matter what

The statement about the attendance is 5 minutes in...

 

[ltrangerfan]

Sounds reasonable. The economics of MSG and the sport truly aren't my concern. Thus I always looked at perceived value for myself.

My point was simply that in 1992 I was paying a fraction (maybe 1/4-1/2%) of my income for seasons.

All things being equal, the cost today are a much higher percentage for me. Perhaps buyers look at entertainment expenditure far different than I did? Perhaps many make much more than I did? In any event, there is a dollar limit , for the seats I wanted that no longer make sense for me. Thus, I gave them up.

 

[NYRFAN218]

Yeah, people are spelling doom and gloom for MSG but I don’t think they care. They may draw only 16-17 most nights but they are making a ton through all of their suites, individual sales, group outings, etc. That place is a money making machine. So it might be tough on fans who have tix to break even or make money on their season tickets but at the end of the day, they’re still printing cash there.

As an aside, I sat in the loft yesterday for the Knicks game. Great experience, basically like sitting in a suite though the actual view for basketball from there isn’t amazing.

 

[sbjnyc]

This is from MSG's 3rd quarter statement:

Revenues for the three months ended September 30, 2018 decreased $25,582, or 32%, to $55,352 as compared to the prior year period. The net decrease is attributable to the following:

Decrease in local media rights fees from MSG Networks $ (29,180)
Decrease in suite license fee revenues (3,353)
Decrease in professional sports teams’ pre/regular season ticket-related revenues (1,831)
Increase in revenues from league distributions 9,045
Other net decreases (263)

The decrease in local media rights fees from MSG Networks was primarily due to the impact of the new revenue recognition standard in the current year period, slightly offset by contractual rate increases.

The decrease in suite license fee revenue was primarily due to the impact of the new revenue recognition standard in the current year period, partially offset by contractual rate increases.

The decrease in professional sports teams’ pre/regular season ticket-related revenues was primarily due to lower average Liberty and Rangers per-game revenue.

The increase in revenues from league distributions was primarily due to timing.

The Knicks are the worst run team and the most abused by Dictator-for-Life Dolan yet they somehow still are his bread and butter. Meanwhile the stock has done well the past 12 months so they must be doing something right.

 

[GordonGecko]

Meanwhile the stock has done well the past 12 months so they must be doing something right.

MSG has moved into a national venue owner/operator. The bought the Beacon theater & Radio City in NYC, then they bought & renovated the Great Western Forum in LA (which they turned into one of the highest profit venues in the country on concerts & shows alone). Dolan may have been born with a silver spoon in his mouth and instinct to run teams into the ground, but apparently he knows how to make money

 

[ponytrekker]

Was it an NHL one? If it was then it was the same one I got as an Isles STH.

Rangers, with lots of questions about what you do with your tickets when you don't go. At that point I said "Lawyer" and ended the survey.

 

[bobbop]

MSG has moved into a national venue owner/operator. The bought the Beacon theater & Radio City in NYC, then they bought & renovated the Great Western Forum in LA (which they turned into one of the highest profit venues in the country on concerts & shows alone). Dolan may have been born with a silver spoon in his mouth and instinct to run teams into the ground, but apparently he knows how to make money

I'm not a big fan of big Jim but you have to admit, he has stayed out of the hockey decision making business and let Sather and Gorton run the show. He's also given them all of the financial resources necessary. There are a lot of other owners I wouldn't want anywhere near this team.

 

[nyrmetros]

My issue isn't with Dolan interfering with the Rangers like he has done with the Knicks.. . It's just the price of tickets to Rangers games have jumped from $25 in the blueseats in 2006/07 to what they are now... With a more sterile environment .

 

[bobbop]

My issue isn't with Dolan interfering with the Rangers like he has done with the Knicks.. . It's just the price of tickets to Rangers games have jumped from $25 in the blueseats in 2006/07 to what they are now... With a more sterile environment .

Well I understand this better than most. My season tickets originally cost $23 per game. The 1994 Stanley Cup Finals were $46 per game. Now I’m at $119 per game.

 

[bobbop]

Something to think about...In 2003-04 the Rangers team payroll was $77.0 MM. Pretty much the same as this year.

 

[broadwayblue]

Something to think about...In 2003-04 the Rangers team payroll was $77.0 MM. Pretty much the same as this year.

Yup. Cost certainty has certainly worked out nicely for them.

 

[dstoffa]

MSG has moved into a national venue owner/operator. The bought the Beacon theater & Radio City in NYC, then they bought & renovated the Great Western Forum in LA (which they turned into one of the highest profit venues in the country on concerts & shows alone). Dolan may have been born with a silver spoon in his mouth and instinct to run teams into the ground, but apparently he knows how to make money

Dave Checketts laid the groundwork when he took over as president of the Garden before Cablevision bought out ITT. Dave realized that an idle building doesn't generate any revenue (just list a plane sitting in a hangar), so he began to book almost anything to fill dates. The Dolans have only continued the trend that almost every other modern facility now follows...

 

[dstoffa]

Yup. Cost certainty has certainly worked out nicely for them.

With payroll capped as such, the Rangers (and every other big-market team) has no excuse not to spend on scouting (other teams and amateurs) and player development. They surely can't spend it on payroll, but they can spend wisely with good research.

 

[dstoffa]

My issue isn't with Dolan interfering with the Rangers like he has done with the Knicks.. . It's just the price of tickets to Rangers games have jumped from $25 in the blueseats in 2006/07 to what they are now... With a more sterile environment .

Don't hold your breath. You'll never see that environment again. I sat in old 312 for 20 years, and knew everyone within 3 seats of me. Now, nobody....

I get it. Ownership charges what the market will bear. They can generate more revenue by selling singles or mini's, so that's what they do. Higher ticket prices force fans to sell more games, which changes the crowd makeup, too. It's a business, not a club..

 

[GordonGecko]

With payroll capped as such, the Rangers (and every other big-market team) has no excuse not to spend on scouting (other teams and amateurs) and player development. They surely can't spend it on payroll, but they can spend wisely with good research.

That's what Cashman has done with the Yankees, even with no hard cap. No idea if Sather has been spending big below

 

[bobbop]

I was in the arena business for a while and The Garden has traditionally booked more dates that any other similar venue in the country. One year that had 344 events, several 2X in one day. That’s just in the big arena. The big acts always book The Garden and Staples Center in LA first then work from there.

 

[GordonGecko]

I was in the arena business for a while and The Garden has traditionally booked more dates that any other similar venue in the country. One year that had 344 events, several 2X in one day. That’s just in the big arena. The big acts always book The Garden and Staples Center in LA first then work from there.

Las Vegas is the new King of the Castle for concerts

WORLDWIDE Arena Top-10 Power List 2018 :
Revealed: The Hottest Venues On The 2018 Arena Power List

(1) MOBILE ARENA, Las Vegas | Concert Capacity: 20,000 | 12-Month Gross: $164.4 million
(2) MADISON SQUARE GARDEN, New York | Concert Capacity: 19,301 | 12-Month Gross: $158.6 million
(3) O2 ARENA, London | Concert Capacity: 21,000 | 12-Month Gross: $147.1 million
(4) THE FORUM, Inglewood, Calif. | Concert Capacity: 17,500 | 12-Month Gross: $100.2 million
(5) BARCLAYS CENTER, Brooklyn | Concert Capacity: 19,000 | 12-Month Gross: $80.52 million
(6) STAPLES CENTER, Los Angeles | Concert Capacity: 20,000 | 12-Month Gross: $80.5 million
(7) QUDOS BANK ARENA, Sydney | Concert Capacity: 20,381 | 12-Month Gross: $70.4 million
(8) SCOTIABANK ARENA, Toronto | Concert Capacity: 19,100 | 12-Month Gross: $70.2 million
(9) AMERICAN AIRLINES CENTER, Dallas | Concert Capacity: 20,100 | 12-Month Gross: $58.6 million
(10) PRUDENTIAL CENTER, Newark, N.J. | Concert Capacity: 17,500 | 12-Month Gross: $55.1 million

Notice how MSG's forum in LA is #4 on that list. Dolan is actually in a big fight with the borough of Englewood and Steve Ballmer, he is suing the city for "tricking" him into giving up lease rights to a plot of land nearby and then turning around and letting the Clippers build their own arena to compete against MSG:

The fate of the Forum in Inglewood has James Dolan crying foul in court
Forum Owners File Lawsuit Against Inglewood & Mayor Alleging Secret Clippers Stadium Negotiations

 

[ponytrekker]

Look at other professional sports. The NHL is not the only one charging high prices...

Seats in the Excelsior Box section of Citi probably equivalent of my seats in the 200s at MSG less than 1/3 the price.

 

[yankeejimbeam]

Seats in the Excelsior Box section of Citi probably equivalent of my seats in the 200s at MSG less than 1/3 the price.

The Mets have introduced a monthly standing room only pass for 39. You can go to every game during the month (except opening day) for this price. Will then automatically renew each month. Thus for $235 you could go to almost every game. The Yankees offer something similar but costs 50 per month and usually offer just for April September and maybe August. Mets also allow you to transfer the ticket beginning 4 hours before the game. It’s a great deal.

 

[bobbop]

Las Vegas is the new King of the Castle for concerts

WORLDWIDE Arena Top-10 Power List 2018 :
Revealed: The Hottest Venues On The 2018 Arena Power List

(1) MOBILE ARENA, Las Vegas | Concert Capacity: 20,000 | 12-Month Gross: $164.4 million
(2) MADISON SQUARE GARDEN, New York | Concert Capacity: 19,301 | 12-Month Gross: $158.6 million
(3) O2 ARENA, London | Concert Capacity: 21,000 | 12-Month Gross: $147.1 million
(4) THE FORUM, Inglewood, Calif. | Concert Capacity: 17,500 | 12-Month Gross: $100.2 million
(5) BARCLAYS CENTER, Brooklyn | Concert Capacity: 19,000 | 12-Month Gross: $80.52 million
(6) STAPLES CENTER, Los Angeles | Concert Capacity: 20,000 | 12-Month Gross: $80.5 million
(7) QUDOS BANK ARENA, Sydney | Concert Capacity: 20,381 | 12-Month Gross: $70.4 million
(8) SCOTIABANK ARENA, Toronto | Concert Capacity: 19,100 | 12-Month Gross: $70.2 million
(9) AMERICAN AIRLINES CENTER, Dallas | Concert Capacity: 20,100 | 12-Month Gross: $58.6 million
(10) PRUDENTIAL CENTER, Newark, N.J. | Concert Capacity: 17,500 | 12-Month Gross: $55.1 million

Notice how MSG's forum in LA is #4 on that list. Dolan is actually in a big fight with the borough of Englewood and Steve Ballmer, he is suing the city for "tricking" him into giving up lease rights to a plot of land nearby and then turning around and letting the Clippers build their own arena to compete against MSG:

The fate of the Forum in Inglewood has James Dolan crying foul in court
Forum Owners File Lawsuit Against Inglewood & Mayor Alleging Secret Clippers Stadium Negotiations

Vegas does have a huge concert business. What they don’t have (yet) is an NBA team or two filling up other dates. Beautiful building though.