Prospect Info: Rangers Prospects Thread (Player Stats/Info in Post #1; Updated 6.27.19)

[Ken Lund]

I'd be shocked if at least one of them isn't on the team.

I'd say all three will probably be here, two almost definitely.
The thought of Skjei, Hajek, and Rykov on the left and DeAngelo Fox and Pionk on the right as your six defensemen sounds great to me - in March. But it's not reasonable for opening night. Look at Pionk last year being rushed into the toughest minutes right away. It definitely hurt him.
If they could move Smith this summer and Shattenkirk at the deadline that would be fine. Staal is going nowhere, but if by spring he is a defacto assistant coach playing once a week or so that would be fine too.

 

[tradenashnow]

You have no idea what you're talking about. You basically imagine that kids will do a good job, and cover it up with "ready or not" to sound more realistic. If you plug in these kids, you'll hate them more than anyone hates Pionk today. Do you know why Pionk got first pair duties? Not because the coach is just a moron, but because he was the best available option. Except he wasn't ready for it, and looked awful. A third pair guy on the first pair against all the best opposition looks awful, much worse than he'd look on the third pair against role players. Now plug in kids who belong in the minors vs McDavid/Matthews/Crosby/Ovechkin. Pionk will look like Bobby Orr in comparison. You know how you know that? The coaching staff chose Pionk for first pair duty when these kids weren't even chosen for first pair duty in the AHL.

You ever play hockey? You know how you could look pretty good against some opposition, really good against other opposition, and awful as if you never played hockey before against others? You know those times when a guy would wheeze by you and you either stood there as a cone or you tried to make some moves only to fall on your butt or come out looking ridiculous another way? Well, that's what happens at all levels, except NHLers are all pretty close to each other, from the best player to the worst, so you don't see AHL-level awfulness as a star rookie on a 2-month AHL stint embarrasses someone just out of the ECHL.

However, if you take someone who is playing on the second pair of an AHL non-playoff team and plug him into an NHL top-4, it will look absolutely ridiculous on the ice. It's one thing to use him 8 minutes against 4th liners while telling him to make the safest play possible. It's another to take an AHL second pair guy and make him an NHL second pair guy on whom you rely to make real plays 20 minutes a game.

Drop the attitude you aren't a GM. This is a rebuild. Skjei has plenty of NHL experience. He's a vet now. A kid like Rykov has been playing against men for years now. Hajek played against men last year. These kids aren't coming out of juniors. The only guy who hasn't played against men was Fox. If you don't have any courage to play young kids during a rebuild, that's your problem. Don't sit here and lecture people about it.

 

[eco's bones]

Rangers threw Pionk into the deep end last year. He was able to keep his head above water for a while and then he put two fingers up--went under for the last time and drowned. Consider--you're playing your rookie pro season in the AHL one year and then you're tasked with stopping Ovechkin the next while also dealing with how to move a 50 lbs. heavier Tom Wilson out of the crease. Any 190 lb. (at best) second year pro would be in way over his head dealing with that. Unlike others I don't hate Pionk. I think he kind of performed admirably for a while and took one for the team--because someone had to do it and it wasn't Shattenkirk and it wasn't DeAngelo--Tony got tough love in a completely other way but it helped him improve in a way that Pionk's tough love didn't. FWIW Shattenkirk was the strongest of the three and if anyone he should have gotten the tougher assignments.

This is why having someone like McQuaid--who is not very exciting for sure but can handle defensive assignments and penalty killing and is big, strong, physical and mean is a good thing. Currently we don't have that --we have Shatty, Pionk, DeAngelo and Fox--all smallish puck moving guys.

If any of our D has to go--to me it's Smith. There are things I like about Brendan but he's making too much to be getting scratched all the time or used as a 4th line forward. I like his edge but he takes too many dumb ass penalties and forces too many plays that aren't there. I don't see good enough reason to keep him around instead of Rykov or Hajek and he may well block one of them if the Rangers do keep him. So goodbye to Brendan for me.

 

[Raspewtin]

I d0n't see a good reason to get rid of any defenseman other than Staal on the roster currently. and even then unless we are taking back value I wouldn't.

 

[Beacon]

Drop the attitude you aren't a GM. This is a rebuild. Skjei has plenty of NHL experience. He's a vet now. A kid like Rykov has been playing against men for years now. Hajek played against men last year. These kids aren't coming out of juniors. The only guy who hasn't played against men was Fox. If you don't have any courage to play young kids during a rebuild, that's your problem. Don't sit here and lecture people about it.

The Rangers aren't running 3 rookies as regular defensemen.

 

[True Blue]

Drop the attitude you aren't a GM. This is a rebuild. Skjei has plenty of NHL experience. He's a vet now. A kid like Rykov has been playing against men for years now. Hajek played against men last year. These kids aren't coming out of juniors. The only guy who hasn't played against men was Fox. If you don't have any courage to play young kids during a rebuild, that's your problem. Don't sit here and lecture people about it.

Yes, Skej has experience. But he did not look great for most parts of the season. And playing against men in the KHL or in the AHL is not quite the same thing as playing against NHL caliber players.

It's not about having courage (what does being brave have to do with this). It's about not rushing the kids and thrusting them into roles they are not prepared for. THAT is how you ruin prospects and get your perpetual rebuild.

 

[True Blue]

The Rangers aren't running 3 rookies as regular defensemen.

You are not being courageous.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

The Rangers aren't running 3 rookies as regular defensemen.

I don't think it's that's far fetched...I mean there were stretches last year we had 3 rookies (i'm including DeAngelo and Pionk in that) playing on same night. If the kids earn the spot then they should be playing.

 

[tradenashnow]

This is a rebuild. While I'm all for veterans to help develop kids, these are not kids coming from juniors or college except for Fox. Hajek played basically all year in the AHL and he looked great in his NHL debut. Rykov was playing in one of the best, non NHL leagues in the world against men. There is no reason to think Hajek, Fox and Rykov can't make this team next year. Or Lindgren who also had almost a full year at the AHL level. This nonsense of keeping older, veteran players around like Staal, Shattenkirk and Smith is just that. Nonsense. I have no problem buying them out at this point because their contracts are almost over. However, it also makes them pretty easy to trade if you retain half with each having only 2 years left on their deals. I don't see a team not adding a Staal for example at 2.5 million for 2 years. If the Rangers retain, those guys are a lot more attractive to teams. Toronto for example has a pathetic defense. They can't stop anybody. Staal was not bad the last 2 years and with a young team. However, he's not needed here any longer. McQuaid was a great help to Skjei last year. He would be the one vet I'd like to bring in. Team started getting run when he was dealt. Personally, I'd like to see them use a package of Fast, Pionk. Chytil and the 20th and see if I could get up to the 4th with the Av's. Two of those three I don't see here long term.

Point being that the team was aggressive with the rebuild with the forward unit last year and it was great. They dragged their feet with the rebuild on the defense. Yes, DeAngelo and Pionk played a lot. It wasn't enough. The left handed defenseman prospects got the shaft. That can't happen this year.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Rangers threw Pionk into the deep end last year. He was able to keep his head above water for a while and then he put two fingers up--went under for the last time and drowned. Consider--you're playing your rookie pro season in the AHL one year and then you're tasked with stopping Ovechkin the next while also dealing with how to move a 50 lbs. heavier Tom Wilson out of the crease. Any 190 lb. (at best) second year pro would be in way over his head dealing with that. Unlike others I don't hate Pionk. I think he kind of performed admirably for a while and took one for the team--because someone had to do it and it wasn't Shattenkirk and it wasn't DeAngelo--Tony got tough love in a completely other way but it helped him improve in a way that Pionk's tough love didn't. FWIW Shattenkirk was the strongest of the three and if anyone he should have gotten the tougher assignments.

This is why having someone like McQuaid--who is not very exciting for sure but can handle defensive assignments and penalty killing and is big, strong, physical and mean is a good thing. Currently we don't have that --we have Shatty, Pionk, DeAngelo and Fox--all smallish puck moving guys.

If any of our D has to go--to me it's Smith. There are things I like about Brendan but he's making too much to be getting scratched all the time or used as a 4th line forward. I like his edge but he takes too many dumb ass penalties and forces too many plays that aren't there. I don't see good enough reason to keep him around instead of Rykov or Hajek and he may well block one of them if the Rangers do keep him. So goodbye to Brendan for me.

The issue is Pionk, like Staal, sucked no matter who he played against or with last year with the exception of the short time he played with Hajek. Beyond his struggles, he just didn't improve at all last year.

If there is a D to get rid of, it's Staal. Not only is he our worst defenseman, he's going to be blocking someone who is more worthy of a spot than he is. Smith is at least versatile enough where he can be that roaming extra who can jump in at either F or D (he can also be waived.) Staal's value is as an extra, but the coaching staff/FO hasn't had the balls to use him in such a role. He's become our Chris Phillips.

 

[eco's bones]

The issue is Pionk, like Staal, sucked no matter who he played against or with last year with the exception of the short time he played with Hajek. Beyond his struggles, he just didn't improve at all last year.

If there is a D to get rid of, it's Staal. Not only is he our worst defenseman, he's going to be blocking someone who is more worthy of a spot than he is. Smith is at least versatile enough where he can be that roaming extra who can jump in at either F or D (he can also be waived.) Staal's value is as an extra, but the coaching staff/FO hasn't had the balls to use him in such a role. He's become our Chris Phillips.

I would point out Beacon's remark on Pionk because I think it's apt. In a nutshell Pionk was given a job that no one else we had was capable of because he was the best of a poor set of options and eventually he cracked. That's pretty much the way I see it. Keep in mind that Quinn was very very reluctant to use DeAngelo and Shattenkirk in certain defensive situations. Whether for instance you think Pionk sucks on the penalty kill and he wasn't good IMO--why did Quinn almost flat out refuse to play Shattenkirk and DeAngelo in penalty kill situations? The only thing I can think of is because he had good reason to believe they would be worse. DeAngelo needs those minutes though if he's going to become a 20+ minute player that's relied on--so yeah I want to see Tony killing penalties next year. Someone has to do it and that's the step he has to take to become a for real top 4 D.

 

[True Blue]

While I'm all for veterans to help develop kids, these are not kids coming from juniors or college except for Fox..

Do you understand that playing in the NHL is NOT nearly the same thing as playing in other leagues? That is like saying that someone looks great while playing in the Caribbean league, so now is ready to be a starting pitcher for the NY Yankees.

Hajek played basically all year in the AHL and he looked great in his NHL debut.

You mean in his 5 game sample? That is enough to sign off on him being capable of handling top minutes?

Rykov was playing in one of the best, non NHL leagues in the world against men.

Do you understand just how far from the NHL, the KHL is?

There is no reason to think Hajek, Fox and Rykov can't make this team next year. Or Lindgren who also had almost a full year at the AHL level.

In the entire history of the NHL, how many times have rebuilding teams entered the season with half of the defense being rookies? Or better yet, 4 out of 6?

This nonsense of keeping older, veteran players around like Staal, Shattenkirk and Smith is just that. Nonsense.

Ok, let us hear your gameplan. And please be specific besides just saying "Trade them or buy them out".

I have no problem buying them out at this point because their contracts are almost over.

Do you understand how the salary cap works? Do you understand the concept of dead cap space?

However, it also makes them pretty easy to trade if you retain half with each having only 2 years left on their deals.

If it was that easy, do you really think that all three would be here?

I don't see a team not adding a Staal for example at 2.5 million for 2 years.

You'v been in contact with other GMs, have you?

Do you understand how No Trade Clauses work?

If the Rangers retain, those guys are a lot more attractive to teams.

What are the teams that want to add 3rd pairing defensemen to two years of playing them arond $3m with No Trade Clauses? Who is beating down this door in your view?

McQuaid was a great help to Skjei last year. He would be the one vet I'd like to bring in.

I thought it was not courageous to NOT go with all rookies You are railing against vets blocking kids but want to bring back McQuaid??

Team started getting run when he was dealt.

Funny, I did not see a team that was getting pushed around at all.

Personally, I'd like to see them use a package of Fast, Pionk. Chytil and the 20th and see if I could get up to the 4th with the Av's. Two of those three I don't see here long term.

You are equating Chytil with the likes of Pionk and Fast?

They dragged their feet with the rebuild on the defense.

Having untradeable contracts clogging up half of the starting line up tends to do just that.

Yes, DeAngelo and Pionk played a lot. It wasn't enough. The left handed defenseman prospects got the shaft. That can't happen this year

That cannot happen his year. We need to bring in McQuaid to ensure that it does not occur.

May I ask your ideas of how to enact all of this? Please something a little more detailed than "Buy out or trade".

 

[Leetch3]

I would point out Beacon's remark on Pionk because I think it's apt. In a nutshell Pionk was given a job that no one else we had was capable of because he was the best of a poor set of options and eventually he cracked. That's pretty much the way I see it. Keep in mind that Quinn was very very reluctant to use DeAngelo and Shattenkirk in certain defensive situations. Whether for instance you think Pionk sucks on the penalty kill and he wasn't good IMO--why did Quinn almost flat out refuse to play Shattenkirk and DeAngelo in penalty kill situations? The only thing I can think of is because he had good reason to believe they would be worse. DeAngelo needs those minutes though if he's going to become a 20+ minute player that's relied on--so yeah I want to see Tony killing penalties next year. Someone has to do it and that's the step he has to take to become a for real top 4 D.

I think you are dead right about pionk (and others) being played because we didn’t have other options combined with Hartford being a mess. That’s why having depth and fixing options are so important

 

[Levitate]

The Rangers aren't running 3 rookies as regular defensemen.

I wouldn't be surprised if they run 2 though.

Fox is going to be given a long long look. He played 3 years of college and outright dominated last year and college guys usually acclimate pretty quickly. Hajek and Rykov will be fighting for a spot on the left. I don't think there's any way both of them make it barring a wild trade of Staal or Skjei, but I could see a scenario with one of them starting on the left and Fox starting on the right somewhere. This is complicated by the weird dynamic of the Rangers right side D where they all are kind of similar in some ways, but it's not out of the question that Shattenkirk gets moved or something.

That said, it's also very likely that the Rangers pick up a vet or two as insurance and if the rookies don't run with the job, they get sent down when necessary.

I also think people are making excuses for Pionk at this point. I really really wanted him to be good even though I thought his usage was bad, but I also really don't think it was just being thrown in over his head because when people thought he was playing "good" he was had major issues that everyone was overlooking.

 

[Beacon]

I don't think it's that's far fetched...I mean there were stretches last year we had 3 rookies (i'm including DeAngelo and Pionk in that) playing on same night. If the kids earn the spot then they should be playing.

So 3 rookies plus 2 sophomores on the blue line?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

So 3 rookies plus 2 sophomores on the blue line?

The rebuild baby! Seriously though, maybe Pionk is gone and injuries will occur.

 

[Barnaby]

Anyway to me Strome, Namestnikov and Vesey are all pretty equal. All mid-20's third liners. I don't hate any of them but I wouldn't lose any sleep over moving any of them either. Fair value for any of them is a late 2nd. On better teams they would fit into roles better suited for their skill sets and I'm not sure some posters are looking clearly at that in considering their value. They are real NHL players and when you get to the 3rd round you're really getting into crapshoot territory.

I think Strome and Namestnikov are pretty close in value. I doubt they bring back much in the offseason with other options all over the place, but I think both are worthy of a 2nd or 3rd at the deadline depending on what kind of season they put together. They are both versatile, and can help out on special teams.

Vesey is a rung or two below to me. He’s a warm body. He’s not versatile and doesn’t play special teams. I’d be shocked if we see him beyond this season.

 

[rangerfan_79]

Going to have to make room for EK along with a few rookies. Interesting times.

 

[Beacon]

I think Strome and Namestnikov are pretty close in value. I doubt they bring back much in the offseason with other options all over the place, but I think both are worthy of a 2nd or 3rd at the deadline depending on what kind of season they put together. They are both versatile, and can help out on special teams.

Vesey is a rung or two below to me. He’s a warm body. He’s not versatile and doesn’t play special teams. I’d be shocked if we see him beyond this season.

Strome is an RFA so he will be cost controlled. We need a few vets, and he's fit well so might as well be Strome fornow. If rookies work out well, maybe we trade him at the 2021 TDL or later.

 

[Vitto79]

I think Strome and Namestnikov are pretty close in value. I doubt they bring back much in the offseason with other options all over the place, but I think both are worthy of a 2nd or 3rd at the deadline depending on what kind of season they put together. They are both versatile, and can help out on special teams.

Vesey is a rung or two below to me. He’s a warm body. He’s not versatile and doesn’t play special teams. I’d be shocked if we see him beyond this season.

Won’t be shocked to see Vesey packaged in a Deal for a Rd that can PK.

Namestnikov or Vesey go in the offseason .... Strome is a good filled at C or Rw is he buys kids some time

 

[Barnaby]

I don't think it's that's far fetched...I mean there were stretches last year we had 3 rookies (i'm including DeAngelo and Pionk in that) playing on same night. If the kids earn the spot then they should be playing.

In March? When the guys here have some games under their belt? It’s def possible. Opening night? No chance.

 

[Vitto79]

Only way Staal goes is to play w one of his brothers

Smith should have value at 50 off so I’d say he goes

Skjei , Staal , one of Rykov/Hajek/Lindgren w Claesson as the spare on LD but all play games this year

RD they pray Shatty can move but that’s hard to do this year. Fox , DeAngelo and they will trade for a pk guy ... Pionk can go down to start

 

[Barnaby]

Strome is an RFA so he will be cost controlled. We need a few vets, and he's fit well so might as well be Strome fornow. If rookies work out well, maybe we trade him at the 2021 TDL or later.

I won’t argue that - I was just speaking to my perceived value of them. I would be surprised if Namestnikov or Strome get moved this offseason. TDL is a possibility. I particularly like Strome. A lot depends on how these guys play, how their seasons progress, and how our younger players progress. Strome is a young guy - id be happy to see him carve out a long term spot here.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

In March? When the guys here have some games under their belt? It’s def possible. Opening night? No chance.

Yea, opening night highly unlikely, but as the season goes on I could see it again.

 

[Barnaby]

1. Realistically I think Smith is your 7th defenseman / 13th forward. He’s not taking a spot from anyone bc we don’t want a kid sitting anyway.

2. Staal is a good veteran whose been here a long time and I’d think I’d a good mentor for the kids. Would I trade him if I could? Absolutely, but I do think that he does bring value.

3. Shattenkirk is your one veteran on the right side. Again, I’d trade him if I could, but having 1 veteran RD isn’t the worst thing on earth. There is also the possibility that he’s stronger after his 2nd season back from injury and regains some value to be dealt.

I’m not crazy about any of these guys, but let’s not go full chicken little either.