Prospect Info: Rangers Prospects Thread (Player Stats/Info in Post #1; Updated 6.27.19)

[True Blue]

On top of that it's quite a difference in terms of how difficult it is to play on the offside due to limited time and space between NHL and KHL and, lastly, it's generally not a good idea to have defensemen play on offside.

I do not disagree. Like I said I thought that I read that somewhere.

If you look at the Rangers prospects pool and the young core that is on the team right, the strength (or depth) is on the wings and LD while C and RD are the areas that they should be putting more emphasis in addressing, especially RD.

Right now on RD, they have ADA here and Pionk currently here. I do not believe that the latter is a long term investment. Keane is in the pipeline already, but yes, they need more. Which is why I am slowly warming up to the idea of a Seider at 20. Though admit that I still do not love the idea of taking him that high. However, if all the other names that we discussed are gone, then he may be best choice left when compared to the field.

 

[kovazub94]

I do not disagree. Like I said I thought that I read that somewhere.

Right now on RD, they have ADA here and Pionk currently here. I do not believe that the latter is a long term investment. Keane is in the pipeline already, but yes, they need more. Which is why I am slowly warming up to the idea of a Seider at 20. Though admit that I still do not love the idea of taking him that high. However, if all the other names that we discussed are gone, then he may be best choice left when compared to the field.

Stating what seems the obvious - the draft is to take BPAs. Trades and FA signing are means to address organizational weaknesses.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

Draft Wired is live

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Draft Wired is live

Is the link the same as it's been previously?

 

[LaffyTaffy]

Is the link the same as it's been previously?

Should be

 

[Beacon]

Wat.

Also look at Pittsburgh's D when they won. Ditto Washington.

There are always exceptions, and in these cases the exceptions are named Crosby, Malkin and Ovechkin. You can't say "Team A won despite having a 24th best C, and team B won despite having the 28th and the 31st best Ds on the top pair, so we can be bad at both."

If you're below average across the board, you're probably not making the playoffs and definitely not winning the Cup.

 

[Beacon]

And they also need to have a star 1C, another C who could be considered 1C on a lesser team to be 2C, and 3C who could step into top-6 long term in case of injuries. And everyone should be between 22 - 25 and on ELC.

Pretty much. Or at least, they need most of those parts to win the Cup. That's why we need to continue rebuilding, not half-ass it because we got a few prospects and 15 months is enough rebuilding.

I know you tried to be sarcastic, but it did show why rebuilding needs to go on. We need that pick for Kreider. We need that top-5 pick in the strong 2020 draft. We need those later picks we can get for Fast, Vesey, Names, Shatty, Staal, Smith at the last TDL of their contracts.

 

[UnSandvich]

Should be

Can you post the link? New comp so I don't have it saved

 

[kovazub94]

Pretty much. Or at least, they need most of those parts to win the Cup. That's why we need to continue rebuilding, not half-ass it because we got a few prospects and 15 months is enough rebuilding.

I know you tried to be sarcastic, but it did show why rebuilding needs to go on. We need that pick for Kreider. We need that top-5 pick in the strong 2020 draft. We need those later picks we can get for Fast, Vesey, Names, Shatty, Staal, Smith at the last TDL of their contracts.

My sarcasm was on the rigidity of some to adhere to building this perfect model and doing it via draft ONLY.

 

[Off Sides]

They already traded for several prospects other teams drafted.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

My apologies Draftwired is not live, it was an old bumped thread. Apparently it was too expensive to keep running.

 

[Beacon]

My sarcasm was on the rigidity of some to adhere to building this perfect model and doing it via draft ONLY.

This is pure BS and you know it. There is no rigid, there's no perfect, there's no model, there's no draft only. Literally every word here is a lie. There is, however, opposition to rebuilding the first line and pair predominantly through free agency and acquisition of vets when we have zero players who can be on the first line or pair of a Cup winner today (all the rookies/prospects are uncertain and Zibanejad is a 1C on many teams, but not most Cup contenders). You need to draft/trade your way into young talent before throwing money at vets, the usual Rangers way. I stated many times that I have no issue signing UFAs or adding vets in a few years if the rest of the team is ready. There are only so many times that I can say something where if you claim I said the opposite, it isn't just a bold faced purposeful lie made in the absence of a real opposing argument.

Honestly, I can't have any respect for anyone's IQ and not just in terms of hockey if he knows Rangers history, yet demands repeat of the same thing with, "but this time it's different!"

 

[RGY]

It has been said so many times as well that Signing Panarin would not be a repeat of the past. Simply cannot be when they have never accumulated this many top tier prospects, this many 1st round picks, and not since expansion have had a top 3 pick until this year. Nothing is being done the same.

We will see what happens, but neither side of the discussion can see into the future and sit here telling the other that they are wrong for what the next steps should be.

 

[kovazub94]

Literally every word here is a lie.
There is, however, opposition to rebuilding the first line and pair predominantly through free agency and acquisition of vets..."

Just called me a liar and in the same post you put this? Rebuilding PREDOMINANTLY through free agency AND acquisition of vets? There’s a discussion of ONE free agent and even that is attached to multiple conditions including moving an existing roster player” Now who’s lying?

 

[Beacon]

Just called me a liar and in the same post you put this? Rebuilding PREDOMINANTLY through free agency AND acquisition of vets? There’s a discussion of ONE free agent and even that is attached to multiple conditions including moving an existing roster player” Now who’s lying?

That one player is not the final piece, but the first piece. And then next year, as every year, there will be demands for more. You add highly paid vets when you have Leetch, Zubov, Richter, Graves, Amonte, etc. You don't add them when Vesey is likely your second-highest scorer left from last year (3rd if Kreider stays). Yes, when you add a UFA because you don't want to play the likes of Vesey, Names or Strome on your first line, you're trying to rebuild through free agency.

 

[darko]

It has been said so many times as well that Signing Panarin would not be a repeat of the past. Simply cannot be when they have never accumulated this many top tier prospects, this many 1st round picks, and not since expansion have had a top 3 pick until this year. Nothing is being done the same.

We will see what happens, but neither side of the discussion can see into the future and sit here telling the other that they are wrong for what the next steps should be.

They said the same thing about Brad Richards who was coming off back to back PPG+ seasons. Granted Richards was 2 years older.

Our blue line is 3-4 years away. We'd be wasting Panarin's prime years.

 

[ElLeetch]

Our blue line is 3-4 years away. We'd be wasting Panarin's prime years.

This is really the key. Right now, our Blueline is nothing. Our best, Skjei, still hasn't reached what we all thought his peak is. We have three vet boat-anchors for at least two seasons. All the rest are kids with high and low potential. Right now, our #1 Defensemen is a #5 or #6 on the two cup finalist teams.

This is not the time to bring in the "last piece" to put us over the top.

 

[Beacon]

It has been said so many times as well that Signing Panarin would not be a repeat of the past. Simply cannot be when they have never accumulated this many top tier prospects

Richards had 168 points in 152 games the 2 seasons before he came here. Lundqvist was a superstar in his prime. McDonaugh and Stepan were very young, and Dubinsky, Callahan, Sauer, Staal were just entering their prime. There was a ton of excitement about Anisimov, MZA, Kreider, Hagelin, Erixon, but especially MDZ.

That group of prospects and young players led by Hall of Famer in his prime Lundqvist and All Star Gaborik in his prime. It was easily, by a wide margin superior to what we have today, and Brad played a more valuable position scoring more points.

The difference is that now you know that Sauer got injured, MDZ never came close to his potential, Dubi, Cally, AA, Staal became quality players, but nothing special. And Brad had to be bought out, which today would carry a penalty. Hindsight is 20/20.

But this time it's different. This time nobody will get injured and this time every young player will reach his ceiling. There will be no Sauers, no Erixons and no MDZs this time. Hell, there won't even be any Anisimovs this time

 

[True Blue]

There is, however, opposition to rebuilding the first line and pair predominantly through free agency and acquisition of vets when we have zero players who can be on the first line or pair of a Cup winner today (all the rookies/prospects are uncertain and Zibanejad is a 1C on many teams, but not most Cup contenders).

I get where you are coming from and happen to largely agree. On Zbad however, not sure I do. I think that if you changed the cast that he played with on the Rangers and inserted him with the supporting cast of those Cup contenders that you mention, you could well be looking at a 90 point player, who also goes up against the opposition's top players. I think that he has put himself into a different category.

 

[RGY]

Richards had 168 points in 152 games the 2 seasons before he came here. Lundqvist was a superstar in his prime. McDonaugh and Stepan were very young, and Dubinsky, Callahan, Sauer, Staal were just entering their prime. There was a ton of excitement about Anisimov, MZA, Kreider, Hagelin, Erixon, but especially MDZ.

That group of prospects and young players led by Hall of Famer in his prime Lundqvist and All Star Gaborik in his prime. It was easily, by a wide margin superior to what we have today, and Brad played a more valuable position scoring more points.

The difference is that now you know that Sauer got injured, MDZ never came close to his potential, Dubi, Cally, AA, Staal became quality players, but nothing special. And Brad had to be bought out, which today would carry a penalty. Hindsight is 20/20.

But this time it's different. This time nobody will get injured and this time every young player will reach his ceiling. There will be no Sauers, no Erixons and no MDZs this time. Hell, there won't even be any Anisimovs this time

No matter what the excitement was back then, those prospects were still not nearly as highly touted nor on the level of what the current group is. They were not. They were decent prospects, some were not even here yet entering the 2011-2012 season.

And for all that went “wrong” with each aspect/part of what you are segmenting above, a majority of that group, even traded for another piece, played a part in going to the ECF twice and the SCF once over the course of 3-5 years. Yep I am way more optimistic about this collection of young talent than I was that group. And we will have a top 3 pick for the first time since expansion.

 

[True Blue]

No matter what the excitement was back then, those prospects were still not nearly as highly touted nor on the level of what the current group is. They were not. They were decent prospects, some were not even here yet entering the 2011-2012 season.

They did not have a Kakko franchise cornerstone in that group, sure. But the defensive prospects were thought of glowingly. Dubinsky was certainly thought of as much as Howden. Kreider was very highly regarded. Callahan was well thought of

 

[Beacon]

No matter what the excitement was back then, those prospects were still not nearly as highly touted nor on the level of what the current group is. They were not.

This is just wrong. There's no way that MDZ wasn't viewed as superior to K'Andre today, Stepan superior to Butcher, Staal/Sauer superior to Hajek/Rykov, Mcdonagh superior to Skjei, Lundqvist and Gaborik superior to any vet, MZA superior to Lias, Dubi/Cally/AA superior to Strome, Lemieux and Howden, etc etc etc.

The difference is that you know some of the old group failed and most of the rest didn't reach their ceiling, whereas with the new bunch, you expect all to hit their ceiling.

 

[McRanger]

This is just wrong. There's no way that MDZ wasn't viewed as superior to K'Andre today, Stepan superior to Butcher, Staal/Sauer superior to Hajek/Rykov, Mcdonagh superior to Skjei, Lundqvist and Gaborik superior to any vet, MZA superior to Lias, Dubi/Cally/AA superior to Strome, Lemieux and Howden, etc etc etc.

The difference is that you know some of the old group failed and most of the rest didn't reach their ceiling, whereas with the new bunch, you expect all to hit their ceiling.

What year are you using as a baseline? You seem to be all over the place with your comparisons.

 

[RGY]

This is just wrong. There's no way that MDZ wasn't viewed as superior to K'Andre today, Stepan superior to Butcher, Staal/Sauer superior to Hajek/Rykov, Mcdonagh superior to Skjei, Lundqvist and Gaborik superior to any vet, MZA superior to Lias, Dubi/Cally/AA superior to Strome, Lemieux and Howden, etc etc etc.

The difference is that you know some of the old group failed and most of the rest didn't reach their ceiling, whereas with the new bunch, you expect all to hit their ceiling.

Are we just neglecting Kravtsov, Kakko/Hughes, and Lundkvist? And the 20th overall pick?

And when was Callahan ever viewed so highly? Even Dubinsky? Sauer as well?

Sure they were all well liked and we had high hopes for them BECAUSE THATS ALL WE HAD. They were not on the level that our current group is. Those were all mid draft picks. Sauer was 40th overall. His projection was a stay at home defenseman, that he would be possibly* a top 4 defenseman, but nothing more. Dubinsky 60th overall. Callahan a 4th round pick. Callahan lit up the OHL in his overage year, but based on that one year that changes his level as a prospect?

I mean every bit of what you are saying is so incredibly debatable and your opinion. MDZ superior to K’Andre?? How? Because he was a ppg player in the CHL? What about what Miller has done?

Just sounds like you are doing/saying whatever it takes to fit your narrative as to why the Rangers should stand pat and pretty much add nothing other than cheap vets.

 

[RGY]

They did not have a Kakko franchise cornerstone in that group, sure. But the defensive prospects were thought of glowingly. Dubinsky was certainly thought of as much as Howden. Kreider was very highly regarded. Callahan was well thought of

And what about this group True Blue? Are these prospects not well thought of?

Does Kakko/Hughes not significantly surpass Kreider by a wide margin?

Forget Howden (who I like and I certainly see some of Stepan in him) What about Kravtsov? Chytil?

Buchnevich has out produced Callahan in the same time frame. 101 points to 59. But if you want to look at ppg then still, .56 PPG to .40 PPG.

I agree the defense is the question mark, there is promise, but still questionable. Variable. Things need to happen such as ADA continuing his progress. Fox unkown. Hajek/Rykov. But we have a lot of options with opportunities.