Prospect Info: Rangers Prospect Thread (Player Stats/Info in Post #1; Updated 5.12.20)

[True Blue]

TBH, the whole back and forth you're having is because of this certainty in your statements. You say Gorton will not trade a 60-point RD, while the counter argument is that having all three of Trouba, Fox and ADA will eventually become cost prohibitive and with Lundkvist coming up - so something (has got t...) MUST give. In reality as already noted there will be two more years or so for further evaluation to figure out and execute on the proper action.

I understand. But when I said that he will absolutely not trade a 60 point RD, I mean that he will not trade him for simply futures. I also do not believe that a prospect skating in Sweden currently any bearing on whether or not said RD gets moved.

Of course something has to give. And my view is that Ludqvist gets moved as a part of a package to get Trouba his partner. The reason that I say that is because unless a team like Columbus comes and offers a Werenksi for DeAngelo, I do not believe there is a deal to be made. Most of my convictions stem from the fact that a) I believe that trading assets that represent lots of production for nothing but future assets is not happening and b) If you take that approach, the universe of what would be a good deal for the Rangers as far as a return goes is limited.

And again, I have said that there is market clearing rate for everything and everyone. I am sure that there is a deal that Gorton would jump on. Werenski or possibly a Connor, etc. But short of that, there is simply not enough of a return out there for a team whose window, I believe, creaks open next year. And there is a window when you have Panarin, Kreider and ZBad here and those players have a finite amount of time at game play at a certain level.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Taking that view is about a useful yelling "Trade Staal. Someone will take him". What you are basically doing is yelling into the wind without a conception of what you are yelling about or how it works. But whatever. Rock on

That's only your perspective.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

Rule of thumb is that if you move a D to the wrong side he gets about 30-40% worse over night. And for every year a D plays on the wrong side he gets permanently 10% worse due to the wear and tear and loss of confidence.

I think in most cases, the loss of production and permanent damage is probably worse. Gostisbehere is a good example.

Somehow Klein & Holden has career years playing on their offhand for the Rangers, so you might be on to something.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Vegas has played 6 LHDs for significant parts of the season and Pietrangelo has spent 600 minutes with Faulk or Parayko as his partner. Everyone can't do it but it doesn't mean it can't work. Try DeAngelo at LD for a stretch and see how it works, you can't know until you try.

 

[Ola]

Somehow Klein & Holden has career years playing on their offhand for the Rangers, so you might be on to something.

At least you get a D+ for your effort...

 

[Ola]

Below is the full list from Peters's article, sans writeups. Because I love you all, I edited/formatted to make readable and copyright-compliant.

Full story here: Ranking the top 50 NHL-affiliated prospects in hockey


1. Kirill Kaprizov, RW, Minnesota Wild
Age: 22 | Previous rank: 8

2. Trevor Zegras, C, Anaheim Ducks
Age: 18 | Previous rank: 9

3. Dylan Cozens, C/W, Buffalo Sabres
Age: 19 | Previous rank: 24

4. Cole Caufield, RW, Montreal Canadiens
Age: 19 | Previous rank: 11

5. Bowen Byram, D, Colorado Avalanche
Age: 18 | Previous rank: 12

6. Moritz Seider, D, Detroit Red Wings
Age: 18 | Previous rank: 43

7. Alex Newhook, C, Colorado Avalanche
Age: 19 | Previous rank: 33

8. Grigori Denisenko, LW, Florida Panthers
Age: 19 | Previous rank: 16

9. Alex Turcotte, C, Los Angeles Kings
Age: 19 | Previous rank: 5

10. Nick Robertson, C/W, Toronto Maple Leafs
Age: 18 | Previous rank: 62

11. Vasili Podkolzin, RW, Vancouver Canucks
Age: 18 | Previous rank: 23

12. Morgan Frost, C, Philadelphia Flyers
Age: 20 | Previous rank: 27

13. Matthew Boldy, LW, Minnesota Wild
Age: 18 | Previous rank: 20

14. Owen Tippett, RW, Florida Panthers
Age: 21 | Previous rank: 22

15. Arthur Kaliyev, LW, Los Angeles Kings
Age: 18 | Previous rank: 48

16. Spencer Knight, G, Florida Panthers
Age: 18 | Previous rank: 51

17. Igor Shesterkin, G, New York Rangers
Age: 24 | Previous rank: 58

18. Vitaly Kravtsov, RW, New York Rangers
Age: 20 | Previous rank: 21

19. Rasmus Kupari, C, Los Angeles Kings
Age: 19 | Previous rank: 38

20. Ty Smith, D, New Jersey Devils
Age: 19 | Previous rank: 25

21. Evan Bouchard, D, Edmonton Oilers
Age: 20 | Previous rank: 28

22. Nils Lundkvist, D, New York Rangers
Age: 19 | Previous rank: NR

23. Cam York, D, Philadelphia Flyers
Age: 19 | Previous rank: 34

24. Josh Norris, C, Ottawa Senators
Age: 20 | Previous rank: 78

25. Philip Broberg, D, Edmonton Oilers
Age: 18 | Previous rank: 36

26. Ilya Sorokin, G, New York Islanders
Age: 24 | Previous rank: 69

27. Alex Formenton, C/W, Ottawa Senators
Age: 20 | Previous rank: 59

28. Victor Soderstrom, D, Arizona Coyotes
Age: 19 | Previous rank: 44

29. Alexander Romanov, D, Montreal Canadiens
Age: 20 | Previous rank: NR

30. Philip Tomasino, C/W, Nashville Predators
Age: 18 | Previous rank: 52

31. Peyton Krebs, C, Vegas Golden Knights
Age: 19 | Previous rank: 32

32. Nils Hoglander, LW, Vancouver Canucks
Age: 19 | Previous rank: 79

33. Connor McMichael, C, Washington Capitals
Age: 19 | Previous rank: 83

34. Jack Studnicka, C, Boston Bruins
Age: 21 | Previous rank: 61

35. Gabriel Vilardi, C, Los Angeles Kings
Age: 20 | Previous ranks: NR

36. Kirill Marchenko, LW, Columbus Blue Jackets
Age: 19 | Previous rank: NR

37. Martin Kaut, RW, Colorado Avalanche
Age: 20 | Previous rank: 63

38. K'Andre Miller, D, New York Rangers
Age: 20 | Previous rank: 37

39. Ty Dellandrea, C, Dallas Stars
Age: 19 | Previous rank: 53

40. Ryan Suzuki, C, Carolina Hurricanes
Age: 18 | Previous rank: 57

41. Liam Foudy, C/W, Columbus Blue Jackets
Age: 20 | Previous rank: 65

42. Lucas Elvenes, LW, Vegas Golden Knights
Age: 20 | Previous rank: 86

43. Joe Veleno, C, Detroit Red Wings
Age: 20 | Previous rank: 35

44. Tobias Bjornfot, D, Los Angeles Kings
Age: 18 | Previous rank: 84

45. Scott Perunovich, D, St. Louis Blues
Age: 21 | Previous rank: NR

46. Jack Dugan, RW, Vegas Golden Knights
Age: 21 | Previous rank: NR

47. Oliver Wahlstrom, RW, New York Islanders
Age: 19 | Previous rank: 42

48. Eeli Tolvanen, LW, Nashville Predators
Age: 20 | Previous rank: 31

49. Ryan Merkley, D, San Jose Sharks
Age: 19 | Previous rank: 96

50. Ian Mitchell, D, Chicago Blackhawks
Age: 21 | Previous rank: 68

Honorable mentions

• Samuel Fagemo, RW, Los Angeles Kings
• Tyler Madden, LW, Los Angeles Kings
• Klim Kostin, C, St. Louis Blues
• Dominik Bokk, RW, Carolina Hurricanes
• Isac Lundestrom, C, Anaheim Ducks
• Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen, G, Buffalo Sabres
• Alex Barre-Boulet, LW, Tampa Bay Lightning
• Nolan Foote, LW, New Jersey Devils

Ouch, that was just baaaad...

 

[Ola]

On the RD log-jam. I don’t quite get what the issue is.

First of all, we have time to work it out. Of course someone might be able to slide over for the odd game, but it’s not a long-term solution. But Nils should play a little in the AHL. We will of course have injuries at RD. We have been healthy this season. We have three RDs, Trouba, Fox and TDA. Odds of them missing say 20-25 games in total next season is low. Nils is still really young. Basically just done growing. It’s perfect for him. Does Nils even want to come over for next season? The best thing for him is probably to stay in Sweden another year.

RDs are very easily tradeable assets. Trouba is locked in here in NY. He is the hardest to move. TDA would in all likelihood not return a good value. His contract situation is a nightmare for most teams. OTOH, he could end up being average value for us too if he ends up making top dollars. Fox? I think it’s amazing how poised he is. It would really hurt moving him.

Nils? Gorton should have no problem getting a really solid return for him.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Anyone wanna give me the skinny on Matthew Robertson.

Just looked up his numbers and they seem pretty fandiddlytasik for a kid that was labeled a "solid defensive defenceman" pick.

I feel like he's not getting talked about much on our boards, at least not as much as Miller (who is stagnated) and Lundqvist (who is excelling).
With Stud LD being a team need, Robertson putting up 47 and counting in 60 games played so far should garner more chatter.

 

[cozandeffect]

Anyone wanna give me the skinny on Matthew Robertson.

Just looked up his numbers and they seem pretty fandiddlytasik for a kid that was labeled a "solid defensive defenceman" pick.

I feel like he's not getting talked about much on our boards, at least not as much as Miller (who is stagnated) and Lundqvist (who is excelling).
With Stud LD being a team need, Robertson putting up 47 and counting in 60 games played so far should garner more chatter.

Part of it is they've had really interesting seasons, Miller moreso obviously because of the shitshow that is UW hockey right now.

Lundqvist on the other hand has multiple people who are easily able/willing to watch his games or track him (Thanks @Amazing Kreiderman who tracks all our Euros not just Nils).

Barron has definitely gotten a bump in these threads because I watch every game, try to give updates on how he's playing and can answer other people's questions about him for example.

I'd hazard a guess that most of our NA fans are almost entirely located on the east coast and don't watch very many WHL games.

TLDR: He plays on the west coast so none/very few of us watch him.

 

[mas0764]

Or it’s craziness to consider trading a 24 year old defenseman for nothing but future promises? Especially as you are entering what will be the creaky opening of the window?

I wasn't referring specifically to the debate between you and me; I was referencing the idea that they aren't interested in moving players off the roster at all for future picks and future upgrades.

But yes, it would be craziness not to CONSIDER DeAngelo for #2OA.

 

[True Blue]

That's only your perspective.

That is reality. I asked you for a return profile. You are unable to come up with one.

 

[True Blue]

I wasn't referring specifically to the debate between you and me; I was referencing the idea that they aren't interested in moving players off the roster at all for future picks and future upgrades.

No, clearly it is not like there is zero interest. Look at what Skeji was traded for. That was the return that they were looking for, granted it was driven by the need to create cap space.

But yes, it would be craziness not to CONSIDER DeAngelo for #2OA.

Of course Gorton would consider it. You are right,it would be craziness not to consider any possibilities. But again, when discussing a player like DeAngelo, I do not believe that is a deal that gets done. Again, I am not Gorton nor do I play him on tv, but I do not think that he is willing to burn another year of prime play from Panarin, ZBad & Kreider. Which is why I do not believe that players DeAngelo or Strome or Buchnevich would be moved for simply futures. Gorton is not going to move serious production from next year's team and not bring back roster players who can replace the production.

Do when talking about DeAngelo, sure he could get moved. But if he does, the other team is going to have to pony up a player that is going to make the fan base wince. Connor comes to mind. Werenski. IF he was to be moved and I had to guess at the return, it would be a LD version to play with Trouba. Not a forward as they seem to be ok there. When Strome is resigned, the only real room is at RW to play with him and Panarin next year. And that narrows the universe of targets even more. But again, I do not believe that he is going anywhere. Nor is Fox. Nor is Trouba.

 

[NYSPORTS]

That is reality. I asked you for a return profile. You are unable to come up with one.

Quite a hobby you have there bombarding posters with the same question time and time and time again b/c you dislike the first answer. You’re a harmless little pest but nobody really cares b/c we realize you keep asking the same question until you get the answer which agrees with you lol.

 

[True Blue]

Quite a hobby you have there bombarding posters with the same question time and time and time again b/c you dislike the first answer.

If you only had an answer, we could debate liking it or not. But alas, you do not.

You’re a harmless little pest but nobody really cares b/c until you read the answer you want you keep asking the same question lol.

You do know that you are widely considered to be a joke, right?

 

[NYSPORTS]

If you only had an answer, we could debate liking it or not. But alas, you do not.

You do know that you are widely considered to be a joke, right?

here come the personal attacks. I’m certain there was never a poll and your perceptions are just your own imagination. You got your answer, you just didn’t like it. Give yourself a victory, who cares?

 

[Fitzy]

Anyone wanna give me the skinny on Matthew Robertson.

Just looked up his numbers and they seem pretty fandiddlytasik for a kid that was labeled a "solid defensive defenceman" pick.

I feel like he's not getting talked about much on our boards, at least not as much as Miller (who is stagnated) and Lundqvist (who is excelling).
With Stud LD being a team need, Robertson putting up 47 and counting in 60 games played so far should garner more chatter.

Offensive numbers by a defensemen in developmental leagues mean very little, unless the kid is known as an offense first type player.

For context, when Brendan Smith and Ryan McDonagh played together in the NCAA, Smith was the far more productive offensively. Speed of play matters much more for blueline offense output in the NHL.

Robertson is the Oil King's best defenseman and so is playing in all situations, but I wouldn't assume that means he has any higher NHL offensive potential. Heck Marc Staal had big years in junior.

 

[mas0764]

Setting aside "What the team would/will do" - I just personally don't think this team is gonna truly compete for a Cup next year or probably not the year after. I think they have basically two players carrying this right now and other than those two they are pretty lacking in both required star power and quality depth throughout the lineup.

Some of both issues will be addressed organically just through young players maturing and getting called up, but I just don't see it happening that they become a CUP CONTENDER in the next 2 years. Playoff team, yes -- in fact, that's basically a given next year -- but there is a wide gulf between a lower-end playoff team like Carolina and a conference power like Boston.

Given that, I just can't understand why you wouldn't continue to bide your time, let the players you are gonna count on in the future marinate, and keep stacking assets.

 

[charliemurphy]

No, clearly it is not like there is zero interest. Look at what Skeji was traded for. That was the return that they were looking for, granted it was driven by the need to create cap space.

Of course Gorton would consider it. You are right,it would be craziness not to consider any possibilities. But again, when discussing a player like DeAngelo, I do not believe that is a deal that gets done. Again, I am not Gorton nor do I play him on tv, but I do not think that he is willing to burn another year of prime play from Panarin, ZBad & Kreider. Which is why I do not believe that players DeAngelo or Strome or Buchnevich would be moved for simply futures. Gorton is not going to move serious production from next year's team and not bring back roster players who can replace the production.

Do when talking about DeAngelo, sure he could get moved. But if he does, the other team is going to have to pony up a player that is going to make the fan base wince. Connor comes to mind. Werenski. IF he was to be moved and I had to guess at the return, it would be a LD version to play with Trouba. Not a forward as they seem to be ok there. When Strome is resigned, the only real room is at RW to play with him and Panarin next year. And that narrows the universe of targets even more. But again, I do not believe that he is going anywhere. Nor is Fox. Nor is Trouba.

I can appreciate your side of the argument but you can't say the production won't or can't be replaced. It might not come in the form of another RD but it could and in all likelihood will come in the form of other players developing and getting better, specifically at the forward position.
This team with the youngest roster in the league is already proving that they can bring the offensive numbers and TDA is a part of that right now along with Zib and Panarin being catalysts. But unless the younger forwards on the roster and the ones coming up fall off a cliff and bust this team will be capable of having 3-4 very dynamic lines that should produce.

 

[Edge]

Anyone wanna give me the skinny on Matthew Robertson.

Just looked up his numbers and they seem pretty fandiddlytasik for a kid that was labeled a "solid defensive defenceman" pick.

I feel like he's not getting talked about much on our boards, at least not as much as Miller (who is stagnated) and Lundqvist (who is excelling).
With Stud LD being a team need, Robertson putting up 47 and counting in 60 games played so far should garner more chatter.

Reminds me a lot of Marc Staal at the same age. He makes smart decisions with the puck, gets to it quickly and gets the play out of his zone. His size and skating combination is good enough that he can win races to the puck and battles for them, though he will have to continue to get stronger against older competition.

While I'm not sure how much of his offensive numbers will translate to the pro game, I think he shows the signs of playing a structured, mature game that should play well in the NHL.

It will also help that he won't have to the be the guy to create a play. He's the guy who gets the puck, like a bloodhound, and then gets it to the guys who create the play.

 

[RGY]

Reminds me a lot of Marc Staal at the same age. He makes smart decisions with the puck, gets to it quickly and gets the play out of his zone. His size and skating combination is good enough that he can win races to the puck and battles for them, though he will have to continue to get stronger against older competition.

While I'm not sure how much of his offensive numbers will translate to the pro game, I think he shows the signs of playing a structured, mature game that should play well in the NHL.

It will also help that he won't have to the be the guy to create a play. He's the guy who gets the puck, like a bloodhound, and then gets it to the guys who create the play.

We certainly could use LD that provide structure to compliment the offensive RD we have.

 

[Edge]

We certainly could use LD that provide structure to compliment the offensive RD we have.

One could argue that a kid like Robertson has the potential to be an ideal fit for this organization and an important piece for the next decade. I honestly think that highly of his potential.

He doesn't have the wow factor of a Jones, he's not the athletic freak that Miller is, and he's not the bulldog that Lindgren is, but he's probably our most balanced defensive prospect.

I definitely rate him favorably to a guy like Hajek at the same point in development, and if he can translate his game, he's got a shot to be someone who is both elevated by playing with a high-end RD and in turn helps elevate them a bit as well.

 

[True Blue]

here come the personal attacks. I’m certain there was never a poll and your perceptions are just your own imagination. You got your answer, you just didn’t like it. Give yourself a victory, who cares?

Did I or did I not ask you a direct question that you have gone to great lengths to try to avoid answering? What does that have to do with a poll?

BTW, harmless little pest seems like an attempt at a personal attack.

 

[True Blue]

I can appreciate your side of the argument but you can't say the production won't or can't be replaced. It might not come in the form of another RD but it could and in all likelihood will come in the form of other players developing and getting better, specifically at the forward position.

Who is replacing 60 points next year? From the back end?

The rebuild is predicated on other people stepping up and developing. It does not mean that removing 60 points from a team that is looking to contend is very feasible.

This team with the youngest roster in the league is already proving that they can bring the offensive numbers and TDA is a part of that right now along with Zib and Panarin being catalysts. But unless the younger forwards on the roster and the ones coming up fall off a cliff and bust this team will be capable of having 3-4 very dynamic lines that should produce.

Again, who is replacing DeAngelo's production next year. This has nothing to do with players that should produce. It has everything to do with removing 60 points wort of production.

 

[True Blue]

Setting aside "What the team would/will do" - I just personally don't think this team is gonna truly compete for a Cup next year or probably not the year after. I think they have basically two players carrying this right now and other than those two they are pretty lacking in both required star power and quality depth throughout the lineup.

Of course they are not going to compete for the Cup next year. But that does not mean that they are not going to be even more competitive. And make no mistake, the plan is to compete next year. Otherwise they would not have signed Panarin.

Some of both issues will be addressed organically just through young players maturing and getting called up, but I just don't see it happening that they become a CUP CONTENDER in the next 2 years. Playoff team, yes -- in fact, that's basically a given next year -- but there is a wide gulf between a lower-end playoff team like Carolina and a conference power like Boston.

Yes, but I highly doubt that JD & Gorton are willing to burn two more years of peak performance years from Panarin, ZBad & Kreider and be content to wait. Not to mention that no matter what kind of a draft pick they get for DeAngelo, this is not a player that will be able to replace his production over the next two years and probably longer. So why would management be willing to take such a step back?

Given that, I just can't understand why you wouldn't continue to bide your time, let the players you are gonna count on in the future marinate, and keep stacking assets.

Chances are that whomever is being drafted this year, is not going to be a major contributor for at least 3-4 years. That is pretty long into Kreider's & Panarin's deal. And will be several years into ZBad's new deal.

The window begins to creak open next year, not two more years down the line.

 

[Ola]

Of course they are not going to compete for the Cup next year. But that does not mean that they are not going to be even more competitive. And make no mistake, the plan is to compete next year. Otherwise they would not have signed Panarin.

Yes, but I highly doubt that JD & Gorton are willing to burn two more years of peak performance years from Panarin, ZBad & Kreider and be content to wait. Not to mention that no matter what kind of a draft pick they get for DeAngelo, this is not a player that will be able to replace his production over the next two years and probably longer. So why would management be willing to take such a step back?

Chances are that whomever is being drafted this year, is not going to be a major contributor for at least 3-4 years. That is pretty long into Kreider's & Panarin's deal. And will be several years into ZBad's new deal.

The window begins to creak open next year, not two more years down the line.

One could argue that one of our better windows should have been this season.

Imagine the team we could have assembled if we didn’t have close to 30m spent on a bunch of buy-outs and deadweight...

I think this play into the Hank treatment. Gorton is of course aware of this and is fed up with the old gang.