Prospect Info: Rangers Prospect Poll: #11

[Revel]

I watch plenty of Hartford and yes, Graves biggest weakness is his skating, the technical aspect of it. He moves just fine in a straight line, but lateral movement is a work in progress.

I agree with this based on what I saw last season. He's no figure skater...but is a locomotive when moving in a straight line. There was a goal he scored last season where he skated end to end and displayed surprising speed; caught up everyone and scored on the play. I have the video on my youtube channel somewhere, but am too lazy to look for it.

EDIT: Found the Graves goal where he caught up to the play. The straight line speed in undeniable:

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't think his season individually was better then the other players on this list, his numbers are heavily inflated from playing a huge role on the best team in the CHL.

Don't get me wrong, he had a good season, especially his fall was really good, but he wasn't the one driving it.

I also don't see his game translate very well, i really hope i'm wrong about this though.
I think his skating is meh and his decision making with the puck is slow, definitely things he can improve on though, hope he does.

I don't mind big D-men at all, he's got good positioning and he's using his reach very well. But there are flaws.

Just a guess here, but maybe in that huge role, he contributed to why his team was the best in the CHL. And his game is not at all predicated on offensive stats. There were players with better offensive stats who didn't make the WHL All-Star team. Statistically, he had a pretty good season for a defensive defenseman. In the past, I've posted his stats compared to all the defenseman on our team from last season that played in the CHL, which was a number of them. We've seen effusive praise from his coach who coached in the NHL very recently, and he was named to an all-star team. Without question, I think he had the best season of any of our CHL'ers. There's not a good case for any others having a better season. Our other CHL'ers really weren't that good.

Thats not to say that a good season means he's a better prospect than every prospect he had a better season than, but having a good season, and showing progress is a good indication of a prospect who's developing well. Of course its expected that the criticism is "slow skater, bad decision making with puck" but thats not at all what I saw last season. I watched him play round about 15 times, I don't know about all the people here who claim to know so well, but thats not at all what I saw. I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say many of the people who critique him have not watched him play or have watched him play very sporadically, looked at his size on some website, and formed an opinion of how he must play based on that.

And FWIW, I actually believe you have legit criticisms of him, and I trust that you've watched him and have formed your own opinion, but with many of the people here who want to put forth an opinion that probably isn't based on much other than preconceived notions, and then hide behind backing it up when they are asked to do so, I believe they want people like you to do their bidding for them against Zborovskiy.

Sean Day is big, i love Sean Day... Skating is the big thing here...

I think Zborovskiy is a worse skater then Ryan Graves and skating is what's holding Graves back a bit in the AHL imo.

The "skating" emphasis is really getting out of control.

Skating is definitely important, but we are getting to the point where to not have skating concerns you have to be an amazing skater, and now skating is getting emphasized by some people over actual hockey skills.

Graves is even a good skater. The guy moves extremely well, when you consider his size. He definitely has things to work on, but I'm stunned that this is one of the new concerns about him. I guess it's very predictable, if you really think about it.

 

[Revel]

Just a guess here, but maybe in that huge role, he contributed to why his team was the best in the CHL. And his game is not at all predicated on offensive stats. There were players with better offensive stats who didn't make the WHL All-Star team. Statistically, he had a pretty good season for a defensive defenseman. In the past, I've posted his stats compared to all the defenseman on our team from last season that played in the CHL, which was a number of them. We've seen effusive praise from his coach who coached in the NHL very recently, and he was named to an all-star team. Without question, I think he had the best season of any of our CHL'ers. There's not a good case for any others having a better season. Our other CHL'ers really weren't that good.

Thats not to say that a good season means he's a better prospect than every prospect he had a better season than, but having a good season, and showing progress is a good indication of a prospect who's developing well. Of course its expected that the criticism is "slow skater, bad decision making with puck" but thats not at all what I saw last season. I watched him play round about 15 times, I don't know about all the people here who claim to know so well, but thats not at all what I saw. I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say many of the people who critique him have not watched him play or have watched him play very sporadically, looked at his size on some website, and formed an opinion of how he must play based on that.

Dawson Leedahl says Hi!

 

[Miamipuck]

Considering he was in the WJC and played in an all star showcase shown on the NHL network, I am going to guess most people that said they had seen him play have in fact done so on numerous occasions. They differ from your opinion because in almost all cases your opinions are at best biased and at worst simply awful.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

So just to be clear here, your stance is that Bereglazov is an inarguably better prospect than Shestyorkin, DeAngelo, and two first-round picks? Is this what you're claiming?

So now you play dumb after appearing to not understand relativity.

I said that he's a better current player, which is not the same as prospect.

Being a better player is very simple. You either are or aren't. Its usually one of the most agreeable aspects of judging prospects.

But since these are all kids, you have to add some projection in there, which is where the difference between player and prospect comes from. People are using their own subjective judgements to judge that despite Bereglazov being better already than a number of the players he's ranked behind, he's a worse prospect, so he definitely is not held in such high regard by some fans.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Considering he was in the WJC and played in an all star showcase shown on the NHL network, I am going to guess most people that said they had seen him play have in fact done so on numerous occasions. They differ from your opinion because in almost all cases your opinions are at best biased and at worst simply awful.

Thats rich coming from you.

And no, I absolutely do not believe a number of the people here that claim to have an opinion against him have watched much of him. I know the way some people here try to form arguments and frame them.

At the Canada-Russia series, he was visibly excellent. The praise here for him after that was effusive. So I'm not sure that helps your point. If people here did actually take the time to watch him play and form a negative opinion, it might've come from the WJC where he was okay, not much better. He's a defensive defenseman though, these all-star games aren't typically where a player with a safe style would stand out. As I've pointed out before, McDonagh, Skjei and Staal all played at the WJC, and combined for a total of 5 points in 23 games, so if you are looking for big things from defensive defenseman at that tournament, you are probably looking for the wrong things. But I get it, some people formed an opinion of him right when he was picked because of certain notions about style of play and size. It was the same thing with this Crawley guy we just drafted. The WJC will only be used as the point of evidence needed to back that opinion, despite it being very clear through Zborovskiy's full body of work this season was that of a good body of work with definite progress made.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Not even going to bother with this, i've seen enough of Zborovskiy to feel like i can have a fair opinion on him and i'm not super high on him.
I don't think he ever makes the NHL but i'll be super happy if he does.

I don't see how i'm biased for thinking that but whatever.

 

[nyr2k2]

Zborovskiy is doing well because he had a better season than anyone left on the list. Had a better season than many players who were voted higher.

Its not surprising, unless you believe that since he's big, he's some plug who will have a low corsi score in the NHL. People here hated McIlrath for the same reasons until they found out how he would do with the advanced stats. Then they loved him, although his play wasn't actually very good.

This shows just how much some people discriminate against big players.

This is so silly and completely off base. I pumped McIlrath's tires until the moment he left the organization. I'm not high on Zborovskiy because I don't think he's that good. I don't know why you have to make it more than it is--when people see a mediocre prospect in Zborovoskiy it has nothing to do with his Corsi or his size or any of that. Straw men.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

I don't get that either, why make it a bigger thing then it is? So weird...

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't see how i'm biased for thinking that but whatever.

I never said that. See this part of my post.

And FWIW, I actually believe you have legit criticisms of him, and I trust that you've watched him and have formed your own opinion, but with many of the people here who want to put forth an opinion that probably isn't based on much other than preconceived notions, and then hide behind backing it up when they are asked to do so, I believe they want people like you to do their bidding for them against Zborovskiy.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Many people wanted their answer why Zborovskiy is so high. Thats how this discussion began.

There you go, it was presented very clearly, and its a perfectly legit argument, unless playing well now doesn't matter anymore. Not everyone has a like-minded opinion. If you are so offended by the argument for Zborovskiy, don't deliberately offend his prospect status while at the same time playing dumb about why people are voting for him in the poll or voting to add him. Everyone knew what the argument for him was, doesn't mean you have to agree with it, but to act like its some bizarre situation that Zborovskiy could've possibly gotten some votes is simply not right.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

I never said that. See this part of my post.

I missed that

 

[Fitzy]

I went with Nieves, but my personal ranking for him could drop if we add more organizational center depth.

I thought I remembered reading people suggesting Zboro was a legitimate high-percentage prospect. Questions about his ceiling but people seemed to think he was better than where he is getting placed here.

Add Barron. Rumors around NCAA are he might be the latest under-the-radar NYR college hockey success.

 

[Miamipuck]

Thats rich coming from you.

And no, I absolutely do not believe a number of the people here that claim to have an opinion against him have watched much of him. I know the way some people here try to form arguments and frame them.

At the Canada-Russia series, he was visibly excellent. The praise here for him after that was effusive. So I'm not sure that helps your point. If people here did actually take the time to watch him play and form a negative opinion, it might've come from the WJC where he was okay, not much better. He's a defensive defenseman though, these all-star games aren't typically where a player with a safe style would stand out. As I've pointed out before, McDonagh, Skjei and Staal all played at the WJC, and combined for a total of 5 points in 23 games, so if you are looking for big things from defensive defenseman at that tournament, you are probably looking for the wrong things. But I get it, some people formed an opinion of him right when he was picked because of certain notions about style of play and size. It was the same thing with this Crawley guy we just drafted. The WJC will only be used as the point of evidence needed to back that opinion, despite it being very clear through Zborovskiy's full body of work this season was that of a good body of work with definite progress made.

Hahaha yeah ok it's always a conspiracy against the players you're championing. The reality is, he does nothing special, he didn't look particularly good in the WJC as a 19 year old. I know the horror of using that tournament to formulate my opinion. I suppose I should just like him because he played well in a league I didn't see him play in, solely to make you feel better. Next prospect you like I promise to do so.

If he makes it good on him, I am calling it like I see it.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think its very obvious that you are trying to be dishonest, and disguising it to make it look more acceptable.

And I'm not championing anyone. Championing would have the guy way higher, but nice straw man trying to make it seem like I'm the one who's putting forth the controversial opinion. You and a few other are the ones daring to question anyone who might vote him 11th or have him in the top 15, which is certainly a number of people if you look at the votes and comments of who to add. Oh, the horrors that anyone would've named him! How dare people judge on performance, and not preconceived notions!

I don't really get it. You want to trash the guy, but when someone provides a dissenting opinion, its not okay, and thats made out to be controversial. That person is obviously just championing the player for thinking they deserve to be in the range where legit prospects would be.

 

[Miamipuck]

I think its very obvious that you are trying to be dishonest, and disguising it..............

I don't really get it.

Lol, thank you for making my day.

If I was" trying to be dishonest", I would say how good your opinion is and how I value what you have to say because you're correct more often than not. That's of course if I was dishonest.

 

[nyr2k2]

Lol, thank you for making my day.

If I was" trying to be dishonest", I would say how good your opinion is and how I value what you have to say because you're correct more often than not. That's of course if I was dishonest.

You're arguing with a guy that thinks Graves has more upside than Skjei. Take his **** with a big grain of salt.

 

[Miamipuck]

You're arguing with a guy that thinks Graves has more upside than Skjei. Take his **** with a big grain of salt.

Good lord really? Hahah wow......

 

[Edge]

I agree, i have Jensen higher then Boo. Jensen is imo an NHL calibre player already, he also has some scoring upside that i don't see in Boo.

I know sometimes it comes off that I don't like Nieves, but that's not true. I just find him to be a very limited prospect.

His speed has a chance to make him an okay fourth line player, and maybe a penalty killer, but there are just so many other areas that are really lacking.

Just like there are some guys this board craps on or ignores (though many people later claim they loved), occassionally we get that guy who the board loves probably more than one would expect.

We always seem to have one and I feel like Nieves is our current one.