Post-Game Talk: Rangers - Kings | SCF | Game 4

[chosen]

It probably has to do more with his unrelenting faith of players to figure it out moreso than not understanding the situation.

But i'm sure that a guy who has made it to SCF and won the presidents trophy in a tough conference another year is "not as bright as we believe".

If every single person believes something is wrong and one person keeps going to a dry well, something is wrong. No matter his reason, every single person here and in the announcer's booth knows he is wrong and it has choked the life out of the power play. That is a losing strategy that puts another obstacle in the path to victory. The Kings are providing enough obstacles. There is no reason to help them. Torts ran a better power play which is almost impossible.

 

[Loff]

I'm reading that with McGuire's voice.

Eww.

 

[CJCNYR]

The Nash hate is really unwarranted. He's not scoring goals but he's excelling in every other part of the game.

I know the argument - we're paying him 7.8 to score goals... but he's as well as rounded a forward as we've had in these playoffs, minus the consistent goal scoring.

I can't complain about him this series. I really can't. Obviously, I wish he could score more, but for whatever reason it just isn't going for him.

He's been a solid rock for us defensively, as a forward. He does every little thing right, from back checking, to pinning his guy and/or his stick, lifting sticks of players about to tee up slap shots, everything.

He's been a physical force to deal with for the King's as well. He's leveling anyone in his way. In game 2 and 3 he got a couple of their defensemen and he also took down quick a few times. Last night he crushed one of their players and the crowd went from their ineffective Potvin chant to standing and cheering.

He's kept plays alive offensively, plays that most likely no one else is able to keep alive on our team besides maybe Kreider. Our wingers have been getting bullied on the boards, Nash maintains the puck despite our other wingers being so ineffective in doing so.

He's doing everything else correctly.

Well said.

Don't post this in the Rick Nash thread. You will just get "he doesn't score he is awful" 7.8 mil!

 

[Fletch]

It probably has to do more with his unrelenting faith of players to figure it out moreso than not understanding the situation.

But i'm sure that a guy who has made it to SCF and won the presidents trophy in a tough conference another year is "not as bright as we believe".

maybe it's not the best choice of words, but sometimes coaches are loyal to a fault. While they can justify their decision to stick with a guy, they're really hoping that guy turns it around. Can't say if many in here are right, or if AV is right regarding Richards (meaning, keeping him in the lineup, on the point, etc.), but even Stanley Cup winning coaches, or championship coaches, have made wrong decisions.

 

[Fletch]

Well said.

Don't post this in the Rick Nash thread. You will just get "he doesn't score he is awful" 7.8 mil!

The point is the same...they can get the same output from someone who costs $2-2.5MM and have $5MM leftover for cakes and crumpets. Maybe saying "awful" is an exaggeration, but there is an expectation, and doing everything except that expectation doesn't fulfill that expectation. Further, it's not a great consolation for anyone to say at least he isn't totally sucking. You're paid to do a job. You're expected to do what you're paid for. If I come to work at 8am and leave at 10pm and work my butt off but generate zero in revenue, then I don't get paid. Simple as that. Anyone who says anything negative about Nash is saying it in the context of what he's paid and expectations.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

It probably has to do more with his unrelenting faith of players to figure it out moreso than not understanding the situation.

But i'm sure that a guy who has made it to SCF and won the presidents trophy in a tough conference another year is "not as bright as we believe".

This makes no sense. He demotes Richards to the 4th line. So much for "unrelenting faith of players." He got it half right with that move - the other half is getting an anemic Richards off the power play.

Not only is he slow and indecisive, but hes been actually quitting on plays out there. He's cooked.

 

[TGWL]

It still drives me nuts how they get away with the obstruction interference on the dump ins. Our biggest advantage is speed in on the dump, and they take it away by picking/holding/interfering and the refs let them. Its completely dead-puck ******** and was supposed to be out of the game. It's literally EVERY single dump in they have a hand up on the forechecker.

^ This.

This happened a lot last night. Our biggest asset against this team is our speed and chasing the puck down. This has slowed down our entrance in their zone when we're chasing the puck. We're losing battles we should be winning or at the very least creating chaos for them. I understand the little bump, but when when you skate right/left and reach out with your hands to bump the player, you cause him to side-step - that's interfering with him.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

This makes no sense. He demotes Richards to the 4th line. So much for "unrelenting faith of players." He got it half right with that move - the other half is getting an anemic Richards off the power play.

Not only is he slow and indecisive, but hes been actually quitting on plays out there. He's cooked.

If you think I support Richards even being on the starting 12, then you are mistaken.

I'm saying that chosen's reasoning, that AV isn't bright, is completely off base.

Call him stubborn to a fault. Fine. The guy is one of the smartest coaches we have had. Is he thick headed? Sure. But most people tend to have this character fault.

Richards on the 4th line makes as much sense to me as keeping him on the power play.

I don't get it. Either keep the 4th line together and put Miller to center our 2nd line, purely so you can inject some offense and speed onto that line. Or keep Moore on the 2nd line and inject Carcillo on the 4th line so that the 4th line doesn't lose its function.

Either way, it sucks that he became the defacto captain - he's unscratchable.

 

[chosen]

If you think I support Richards even being on the starting 12, then you are mistaken.

I'm saying that chosen's reasoning, that AV isn't bright, is completely off base.

Call him stubborn to a fault. Fine. The guy is one of the smartest coaches we have had. Is he thick headed? Sure. But most people tend to have this character fault.

Richards on the 4th line makes as much sense to me as keeping him on the power play.

I don't get it. Either keep the 4th line together and put Miller to center our 2nd line, purely so you can inject some offense and speed onto that line. Or keep Moore on the 2nd line and inject Carcillo on the 4th line so that the 4th line doesn't lose its function.

Either way, it sucks that he became the defacto captain - he's unscratchable.

If a coach can set aside his own ego, everyone is scratchable. You can call it being stubborn. I call it being stupid. No matter what you want to call it, it might be costing a shot at winning the Cup. What could be a worse thing to say about a coach?

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

If a coach can set aside his own ego, everyone is scratchable. You can call it being stubborn. I call it being stupid. No matter what you want to call it, it might be costing a shot at winning the Cup. What could be a worse thing to say about a coach?

So Stepan should have technically been scratched, in your book, after having a pretty miserable end to the first round and beginning to the 2nd? String of bad games that could have cost us the playoffs?

In some cases, sticking with your players isn't a bad thing. This is AV's first year with Richie. We're all more familiar with him. Richie played better this year, too. He became a leader again. And now he's stunk up the joint. It's not hard to see why AV hasn't scratched him. He wants him to succeed.

And what is the best place to get a player to get going? The powerplay. Too bad Richards is a big reason our powerplay is as ineffective as it is.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

So Stepan should have technically been scratched, in your book, after having a pretty miserable end to the first round and beginning to the 2nd? String of bad games that could have cost us the playoffs?

In some cases, sticking with your players isn't a bad thing. This is AV's first year with Richie. We're all more familiar with him. Richie played better this year, too. He became a leader again. And now he's stunk up the joint. It's not hard to see why AV hasn't scratched him. He wants him to succeed.

And what is the best place to get a player to get going? The powerplay. Too bad Richards is a big reason our powerplay is as ineffective as it is.

That Stepan comparison is *********.

Theres a major difference between not being productive for a few games vs. being a detriment to the team.

Richards has been overwhelmingly bad since the beginning of the Montreal series.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

That Stepan comparison is *********.

Theres a major difference between not being productive for a few games vs. being a detriment to the team.

Richards has been overwhelmingly bad since the beginning of the Montreal series.

The concept is what I was trying to harp on. Stepan wasn't playing nearly at the level he was playing in Montreal and beyond. Sometimes players work through their problems.

 

[Xref]

It still drives me nuts how they get away with the obstruction interference on the dump ins. Our biggest advantage is speed in on the dump, and they take it away by picking/holding/interfering and the refs let them. Its completely dead-puck ******** and was supposed to be out of the game. It's literally EVERY single dump in they have a hand up on the forechecker.

Maybe our guys need to start diving and embellishing on those plays.

 

[chosen]

So Stepan should have technically been scratched, in your book, after having a pretty miserable end to the first round and beginning to the 2nd? String of bad games that could have cost us the playoffs?

In some cases, sticking with your players isn't a bad thing. This is AV's first year with Richie. We're all more familiar with him. Richie played better this year, too. He became a leader again. And now he's stunk up the joint. It's not hard to see why AV hasn't scratched him. He wants him to succeed.

And what is the best place to get a player to get going? The powerplay. Too bad Richards is a big reason our powerplay is as ineffective as it is.

You're generalizing while trying to make a point you don't believe.

I never thought nor said Stepan should be scratched. I am not even in favor of scratching Richards, although I would not be against it.

My only contention is that Richards should see no power play time. The power play is now historically bad and while it is hard to pin it solely on one individual, it is not even arguable how bad Richards has been on the power play.

Everyone is unanimous in this opinion except for the person making the decision. They won't lose the Cup for that reason alone, but if your power play almost never scores, in fact, can barely get a shot on net, the coach has to be held responsible. The Rangers might not sniff another Finals for 20 years. It is not a time to take the safe course. You take shots at winning or you increase your chances of losing.
t

 

[Xref]

Richards just needs his TOI cut, and drastically. Scratching him would be a huge mistake to the psyche of the room. Reduce his TOI by....a lot, save his legs for the end of periods when our guys need a breather. And put him on the 3rd unit of the PP.

 

[TGWL]

A lot of birthdays coming up. Here's hoping they all score some big goals on their birthdays.

 

[BB58]

BTW something needs to be done with these refs. Talk about incompetent officiating that is favoring one side.

 

[BB58]

Maybe our guys need to start diving and embellishing on those plays.

Sadly, i think it has come to a point they have to pull this act just for this series.

 

[KingWantsCup]

My dad-- who doesn't watch hockey, he's only watching the finals-- summed it up perfectly.

"The Kings skate circles around them. The Rangers pass too much and take all these whimpy shots. Lundqvist is their whole team."

It's friggin' true lol. The Kings have the better roster, for sure. But the better team has yet to be decided.

LGR!

 

[Raspewtin]

If a coach can set aside his own ego, everyone is scratchable. You can call it being stubborn. I call it being stupid. No matter what you want to call it, it might be costing a shot at winning the Cup. What could be a worse thing to say about a coach?

That's ********.

Like it or not, Brad Richards is still a Conn Smythe winning veteran, and the "defacto captain" whatever the **** that means. He got here with Brad Richards, not particularly playing well either, there's nothing wrong with using the horses that got you here. This is the final, not the second round.

What about the risk in scratching Richards for a game, and our offense becomes more anemic? Scratching Richards is just as, if not MORE risky than keeping him in the game.

To call a coach stupid and egotistical cause he won't scratch an important player is stupid.

 

[aufheben]

Hank needs to be in God-mode for 3 more games. It's possible. I thought Richards looked fine on the 4th line, but he should be off the PP in favor of Stralman.

 

[nevesis]

Lundqvist's 40 saves are the most by a goaltender in a regulation-time elimination-avoiding victory in a Stanley Cup Final game since the NHL began officially tracking shot totals nearly 60 years ago.

 

[nevesis]

Henrik Lundqvist: 8-0, 0.99 GAA, .968 SV% in last 8 elimination games at MSG

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Henrik Lundqvist: 8-0, 0.99 GAA, .968 SV% in last 8 elimination games at MSG

Some of those games, I thought the team played really well in front of them. Last night, they certainly did not.

The guy is a marvel. Its a shame some fans don't realize it and are spoiled by his consistently great performances.

 

[Xref]

BTW something needs to be done with these refs. Talk about incompetent officiating that is favoring one side.

Last night, the incompetence favored neither team. The King's interference violations went uncalled, and Girardi's diving slash on the breakaway went uncalled...which could easily have resulted in a penalty shot. There were many others that went uncalled, for both sides. If anything, I thought the bias went in FAVOR of the Rangers last night. I saw a lot that could/should have been called.