Toggle sidebar

News Article: Rangers figure out Alain Vigneault at the perfect time

  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
This team wouldn't be here today if it weren't for some of the things Torts taught so many of these guys. He provided such a good foundation to build on, and I don't think the fanbase should forget or ignore that. Also, AV should get a ton of credit for leaving some of his coaching philosophies in Vancouver, most notably keeping your star offensive players off of the penalty kill and generally just out of the defensive zone. The Ozone starts he would provide the Sedins with were disgusting.
 
Bird Law said:
That was the thing that worried me the most.
Click to expand...

I'm not familiar with the problems Brassard had in Columbus, but I can't be any happier with him. He's money. Plus you can tell he's one of those guys who wants nothing more than to win.
 
Kel Varnsen said:
This team wouldn't be here today if it weren't for some of the things Torts taught so many of these guys. He provided such a good foundation to build on, and I don't think the fanbase should forget or ignore that.
Click to expand...

I actually agree with this.

Torts is probably a perfect coach for a young team that needs a ton of development.

But after they get to a certain level, you have to get rid of Torts and need a tactically superior guy running the team.
 
GordonGecko said:
AV is so different, aside from the strategy - he's not a bulldog, he's a supportive type coach. If a player f's up, instead of being in the dog house he gets a pat on the back encouraging him to keep at it and things will turn around. Can you imagine how many pounds of pressure that takes off guys? This roster is a good group of professionals, they can police themselves and don't need to be berated at every opportunity. If a player really does suck (eg MDZ), he'll get moved after he's had a fair number of chances to prove himself
Click to expand...

Gotta think that, were Tortorella still the coach, Pouliot is not a Ranger right now. Good point.
 
Kel Varnsen said:
This team wouldn't be here today if it weren't for some of the things Torts taught so many of these guys. He provided such a good foundation to build on, and I don't think the fanbase should forget or ignore that. Also, AV should get a ton of credit for leaving some of his coaching philosophies in Vancouver, most notably keeping your star offensive players off of the penalty kill and generally just out of the defensive zone. The Ozone starts he would provide the Sedins with were disgusting.
Click to expand...
Agreed here, too. Good to keep this in mind. Its all an evolution.
 
Yes, but the Rangers forwards are also a ton better defensively than the Sedin's. They are also a much more balanced team than Vancouver. It doesn't really matter as much which line they send out. You almost have to start the Sedin's in the O zone because they don't play defence.
 
Different coaches for different time periods.

Renney was great for a kid team to build confidence under and learn the basics.

Torts was great for a teenage team to learn about discipline and responsibility.

AV is great for a mature team who needs someone at the helm to provide general direction, but can trust his mature team to do the right thing without being micromanaged.
 
slipknottin said:
I actually agree with this.

Torts is probably a perfect coach for a young team that needs a ton of development.

But after they get to a certain level, you have to get rid of Torts and need a tactically superior guy running the team.
Click to expand...

Torts might be just what the doctor ordered. In Edmonton.

Seriously, the team and the coach have really come to a very solid understanding. It's awesome to see. I was very worried that they wouldn't be able to keep up with this quick thinking game plan, and they did.

Kudos. This is the freaking best.
 
Miamipuck said:
I like how Arniel and Brassard have moved past their former nonsense. That shows a lot.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Both have done much better in NY while getting along.

Kel Varnsen said:
This team wouldn't be here today if it weren't for some of the things Torts taught so many of these guys. He provided such a good foundation to build on, and I don't think the fanbase should forget or ignore that. Also, AV should get a ton of credit for leaving some of his coaching philosophies in Vancouver, most notably keeping your star offensive players off of the penalty kill and generally just out of the defensive zone. The Ozone starts he would provide the Sedins with were disgusting.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Under Renney the Rangers had good defensive structure. Under Torts they added a strong work ethic to the structure. Under AV they added a fast offensive pace and puck possession pace to the structure and work ethic.
 
twistedwrister17 said:
Yes, but the Rangers forwards are also a ton better defensively than the Sedin's. They are also a much more balanced team than Vancouver. It doesn't really matter as much which line they send out. You almost have to start the Sedin's in the O zone because they don't play defence.
Click to expand...

If you compare the lineups, after the Sedins and Kesler, their team really starts falling short. It remains to be seen if Zucc, Richards, and MSL's production can compare to those three. Hags almost already equals Raymond's production in far less games and less ice time. As much trouble Nash has had in the post season, comparing him to Chris freakin' Higgins is laughable. I remember the Hansen-Malhotra-Samuelsson (forgot who replaced Samuelsson when he went down or did he return from an injury?) being a decent shutdown line but they can't hold a candle to PBZ. Stepan could be doing better. meh. And Boyle-Moore-Dorsett as our 4th line? I'd say they are a better line than Vancouver's third line was that season let alone their scrubby fourth. The defensive ability of our 4th has been a golden asset. So yeah, way more depth than that team. WAY MORE. I even think Carcillo as our 13th man is a better option over the rookie Hodgson who averaged 6:46m in 12 games. yay. Oops, forgot to mention Kreider as if this paragraph needed an exclamation mark.

Burrows-Sedin-Sedin
Raymond-Kesler-Higgins
Hansen-Malhotra-Samuelsson ?
Torres-Lapierre-Glass ?
Hodgson/Tambellini

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Hagelin-Richards-MSL
Poulliet-Brass-Zucc
Boyle-Moore-Dorsett
Carcillo

On defense, our top 4 is definitely better. Another important point is that our bottom 2 pairing is stable. Vancouver used all manner of different players. I believe they had injuries to Ballard along the way so I guess we can say we are also the beneficiaries of good luck in that regard but IIRC Ballard in Vancouver was probably on par with if not worse than John Moore. They had a nice and in some ways similar group on their blueline but I think our group is has the edge (Oreskovich being the main weak link although I can't remember how he performed that year...)

Ehrhoff-Edler
Bieksa-Hamhuis
Oreskovich-Salo
Ballard/Rome/Alberts

McD-Girardi
Staal-Stralman
Moore-Klein
Diaz

******* I really hope the Rick Nash beast has awoken!
 
I really like NY's forward depth, very balanced. Unfortunately you don't have any players that compare to the Sedin's offensive capabilities - they were playing close to 1 ppg over the 2011 run.

When it comes to defence, again there is very good depth but no real number 1 shut down pairing. Vancouver's 2011 top 4 D are a fair bit better, imo. The puck moving skills of Erhoff and Edler + the shutdown capability of hamuis and bieksa were at an all star level. Vancouver lost because Erhoff had an injured shoulder, Kesler's hip was busted up at game 5 vs san jose, and hamhuis was out after game 1 in the finals. This eliminated their shut down pairing and inhibited puck movement from the backend. The fact that they made it a 7 game series is quite remarkable - Imagine Boston losing Seidenberg. Anyway, thats how it goes...but I think you should reconsider your position. Vancouver's 2011 team was incredibly talented, and I don't think the rangers are quite at that level.

Also, Oreskovich is a winger, and Malholtra never played in the playoffs due to that terrible eye injury.
 
n8 said:
If you compare the lineups, after the Sedins and Kesler, their team really starts falling short. It remains to be seen if Zucc, Richards, and MSL's production can compare to those three. Hags almost already equals Raymond's production in far less games and less ice time. As much trouble Nash has had in the post season, comparing him to Chris freakin' Higgins is laughable. I remember the Hansen-Malhotra-Samuelsson (forgot who replaced Samuelsson when he went down or did he return from an injury?) being a decent shutdown line but they can't hold a candle to PBZ. Stepan could be doing better. meh. And Boyle-Moore-Dorsett as our 4th line? I'd say they are a better line than Vancouver's third line was that season let alone their scrubby fourth. The defensive ability of our 4th has been a golden asset. So yeah, way more depth than that team. WAY MORE. I even think Carcillo as our 13th man is a better option over the rookie Hodgson who averaged 6:46m in 12 games. yay. Oops, forgot to mention Kreider as if this paragraph needed an exclamation mark.

Burrows-Sedin-Sedin
Raymond-Kesler-Higgins
Hansen-Malhotra-Samuelsson ?
Torres-Lapierre-Glass ?
Hodgson/Tambellini

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Hagelin-Richards-MSL
Poulliet-Brass-Zucc
Boyle-Moore-Dorsett
Carcillo

On defense, our top 4 is definitely better. Another important point is that our bottom 2 pairing is stable. Vancouver used all manner of different players. I believe they had injuries to Ballard along the way so I guess we can say we are also the beneficiaries of good luck in that regard but IIRC Ballard in Vancouver was probably on par with if not worse than John Moore. They had a nice and in some ways similar group on their blueline but I think our group is has the edge (Oreskovich being the main weak link although I can't remember how he performed that year...)

Ehrhoff-Edler
Bieksa-Hamhuis
Oreskovich-Salo
Ballard/Rome/Alberts

McD-Girardi
Staal-Stralman
Moore-Klein
Diaz

******* I really hope the Rick Nash beast has awoken!
Click to expand...

Sorry, I didn't quote you :shakehead. Please see the message above :)
 
lolcatz said:
When it comes to defence, again there is very good depth but no real number 1 shut down pairing. Vancouver's 2011 top 4 D are a fair bit better, imo. The puck moving skills of Erhoff and Edler + the shutdown capability of hamuis and bieksa were at an all star level. Vancouver lost because Erhoff had an injured shoulder, Kesler's hip was busted up at game 5 vs san jose, and hamhuis was out after game 1 in the finals. This eliminated their shut down pairing and inhibited puck movement from the backend. The fact that they made it a 7 game series is quite remarkable - Imagine Boston losing Seidenberg. Anyway, thats how it goes...but I think you should reconsider your position. Vancouver's 2011 team was incredibly talented, and I don't think the rangers are quite at that level.
Click to expand...

If you don't see the top end talent in the Rangers' top four then you aren't watching the Rangers. McDonagh is one of the top 5-10 defensemen in the league. Staal is probably the best shutdown defenseman in the league. He just spent seven games turning Crosby into almost a complete non-factor. Girardi is a shot blocking rock. And Stralman is probably the most underrated defenseman in the league and serves as a major factor in the Rangers' transition game through neutral zone. There's a reason why he's one of the top 30 defensemen in the league on possession numbers.
 
Zil said:
If you don't see the top end talent in the Rangers' top four then you aren't watching the Rangers. McDonagh is one of the top 5-10 defensemen in the league. Staal is probably the best shutdown defenseman in the league. He just spent seven games turning Crosby into almost a complete non-factor. Girardi is a shot blocking rock. And Stralman is probably the most underrated defenseman in the league and serves as a major factor in the Rangers' transition game through neutral zone. There's a reason why he's one of the top 30 defensemen in the league on possession numbers.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying there isn't a huge amount of talent there, but even looking at the +/- of each squad is telling. Dan Hamhuis and Bieksa were +29 and +32 in 2011. I would agree that Staal is in the top 5 shutdown defenceman in the league. I'd also wager that a healthy Erhoff is a step above McDonagh. I think Erhoff is a complete package and Vancouver's disposal of him was a boneheaded move.

But all this really doesn't matter too much compared to chemistry. Your team is healthy and jelling and I hope they win it all - I don't want to see a repeat and I think AV deserves it.
 
lolcatz said:
I'm not saying there isn't a huge amount of talent there, but even looking at the +/- of each squad is telling. Dan Hamhuis and Bieksa were +29 and +32 in 2011. I would agree that Staal is in the top 5 shutdown defenceman in the league. I'd also wager that a healthy Erhoff is a step above McDonagh. I think Erhoff is a complete package and Vancouver's disposal of him was a boneheaded move.

But all this really doesn't matter too much compared to chemistry. Your team is healthy and jelling and I hope they win it all - I don't want to see a repeat and I think AV deserves it.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure you watched the Ranger games because their performance on ice has been inspiring, stats be damned. and +/- stats? that is more of an indication of being on the ice for all of the Sedins' goals (and over 4 full series at that). Exhibit A, Marek Malik. IIRC Marleau could not be contained that series vs Van. They just outscored the Sharks with their potent scoring. Nashville was no legit offense threat. Chicago almost made them blow a 3-0 lead and made the Canucks look terrible in that process. blowouts IIRC. They barely managed to get out of that series. Thanks for clarifying all the injury statuses. I remember there were guys going down but not sure when.

So, yes, I have reconsidered and I have come to the same conclusion. Again, that was a good team and yes, we are definitely enjoying the benefits of a healthy roster (knock on wood). We are not better offensively but McD-G, Staal-Strals we HAVE contained the other teams. McD is playing at a Norris level right now (keep Ehrhoff!) Looking at the first two series, outside of checks, Hartnell was a non-factor. Giroux got his points but he was very invisible in that series. Same with Crosby. Malkin had a little more success but we are talking out the TOP scorers in the league that were neutralized.

I will agree Van was foolish to not retain Erhoff. $4M AAV is a great deal for a player of his caliber. Was wishing we could have got him that summer myself but we spent all our money on Beaver.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom