Post-Game Talk: RANGER vs lightnings

[The Crypto Guy]

Kakko played under 14 min? Is that right? Did he get moved off the 1st line?

 

[smoneil]

Kakko played under 14 min? Is that right? Did he get moved off the 1st line?

No. There were a ton of penalties. His ESTOI was on par with Zib and Kreider.

 

[tomobson]

Trocheck looking like a significant upgrade over Strome. He's also way better at actually playing the bumper position on the pp.

Before the kid line got put together and I think people are forgetting how dominant Kakko looked on the top line last season. The production might not have been there but it would have came if he didn't get injured.

One injury and Chytil lost all his linemates. Luckily he's good enough by now to do just fine as a third line center even if he's put with spare parts.

I like Laf on the Panarin line. If VK is back soon I'd slide him down to Chytil's wing. If GG can get good matchups for that third line, which shouldn't be too hard, the two of them can do some damage against the rest of the bottom six in the NHL.

The defense looked great. Hopefully they can stay healthy because they don't have much backup for now.

 

[LORDE]

I mentioned this in the gameday thread but that's the kinda game that needs to define their floor or at least their "good" game.

This is NOT a complaint at all... IF they don't stray too far from that game they'll be a force.

Play like that vs lesser teams & they'll destroy them.

It's a long season but if they can raise that floor up... look out. That's what learning to be a pro is all about.

 

[GAGLine]

Kakko played under 14 min? Is that right? Did he get moved off the 1st line?

There were a lot of penalties and he didn't play PP or PK. He had 7th most ice time among forwards, 6th most at even strength. He played 13:05 at even strength. Mika played 13:48 at even strength and Kreider was 11:14.

 

[Kodiak]

I'm surprised by all of the complaining regarding ice time. All of the penalties threw off the 5v5 flow and that is definitely reflected in the overall TOI.

If you look at the 5v5 TOI, it looks like a pretty good distribution. Miller and Trouba got the most time as they were the matchup pairing. Lafreniere had the most 5v5 time among forwards. Kakko was 4th and Chytil was 6th. Jones was 3rd among defensemen. Carpenter and Reaves were at the bottom with 6:22 each.

When the game is close and there is that much special teams time, you have to lean on your top guys. The first PP unit was getting tons of zone time and generating lots of chances. And the GWG was a Zibanejad PP goal, so it seems to have worked.

 

[McRanger92]

Mika is an absolute force, he looks like he's really gained a ton of confidence from his terrific playoff perfromace. Ive seen worse bets than +6000 for him to win the Hart. Kreider too did some excellent forechecking and could've easily had 2 goals himself if not for Vasilevskiy. Kakko looked Buch-like with the penalties drawn and puck possession.

Panarin looked vintage, Trocheck is as advertised. Kravtsov looked like he had never seen North American Ice before he got hurt on a play that happens 10 times a game, even if it was little dirty. The kid ruined his career by going back to Russia.

Chytil & Laf both look really good, around the puck all night. Vesey taking Gauthier's spot in the bottom 6 is and enormous upgrade and despite a dumb penalty and a lost faceoff on a 5 on 3, Carpenter is not nearly as bad as he's been made out to be.

The defense is the strength of the team, I'm confident with all 3 pairs on the ice. Jones got walked by Paul early but didnt give an inch the rest of the way. Igor didnt have to do too much but he was rock solid when he had to be.

Overall the team looks fast and strong, and forechecked better than any Ranger team in recent memory. I expect it to continue because the swagger the team is playing with is palpable in the Garden. Very exciting start.

Vasilevsky is going to have to do some Shesterkin-esque heavy lifting for that Tampa team, because the edges of their roster are awful. Foote on the top pair, Fleury-Myers 3rd pair. These guys were getting spun around like tops down low. They will miss McDonagh & Palat dearly. Hagel & Colton are nobodies when not insulated by the depth Tampa lost. Any step back from one of their studs and they will become the Penguins in no time.

 

[bleedblue94]

Penalties were being called at an alarming rate in the second and third period. Should the coach just run the bench like a 10U rec league team and say “next group you go out there” just so every kid plays around the same time or should he run the bench like an NHL team and put players into the game in roles they are ready for??? If a stat is out there that says “percentage of even strength time on ice” for those two periods I’d venture to say that Kappo played about 33% of even strength time” during those periods considering out of 40 minutes in question, something like 10 or more of those minutes were either the Rangers on the power play, short handed or 4 on 4.

Why let important facts get in the way of an outdated narrative designed to harpoon a coach that got the team to the conference finals last year and a team that just dominated the defending eastern conference champs??!?

hang on here, this isnt monday morning qb. there were just preseason games to start giving these guys exposure to pk minutes, gallant even acknowledged that they needed to start doing that during camp. i am not saying dump out the players meant for that role, but i am saying integrate these kids the way you said you would so they dont play 6 minutes out of 40 mins in a game.

youre the one talking about a "narrative" yet you are trying to manipulate my words to suggest i am offering some narrative that doesnt exist. turk literally brought this up himself weeks ago and said he needed to work them into the pk so that what happened last night doesnt happen...

i guess it comes down to 2 things where we might not be in agreement on....main one being that after 1 game i cant draw any hard conclusions on how the kids will be used. did see laf get some pk time tho, a little surprised kakko didnt since hes arguably the stronger def player though laf being more physical prob helps earn some pts w/ gg. not a chance in hell do you consider chytil getting pk time tho.

big picture dont disagree with where youre going about wanting to see the kids get pp time for experience playing together, obviously familiarity and having success to build on and mistakes to learn from when it means less can make a diff long term.

but then the other part im not sure we see the same is the way i read gallant and how he intends to deploy the kids. the way hes talked about them so far is markedly different than at any point last year, to me its clear they have earned his confidence and he intends to provide more opportunity throughout the season. he sees what we see and much more from much closer, and hes been around the nhl a long, long time. guys love playing for him, hes been pretty successful....i trust gallant. ive never heard of anyone around the league no loving playing for him and i think that speaks a lot to guys feeling like theyre treated fairly. so when he talks about their growth and how they need to be a big part of this season, i think thats honest. idno how it plays out, who gets opportunities when etc...i just know he sees laf/kakko/chytil as a big piece of this puzzle if were gonna be playing in may / june, what that looks like and when they claim those im just not worried about in october. if were sitting mid january and they cant get into the top 6 or over 13 mins a night and arent producing 1- it means well suck and 2-alarm bells will begin to ring ... but im not bringing that evil into my thoughts. 1-0....positive vibes

i am not focused on the pp time. that is the thing people are misunderstanding. i am saying IF you are going 90/30 split on pp then start integrating the kids into the pk rotation (like turk said he was going to do) so that when games turn into a specialty teams sprint you dont completely lose these guys from contributing to the game and they get iced. turk acknowledged this and said he needed to get them into the pk rotation so that is what i want to see if the pp time remains limited. either way the team in april will be in a better position if more players are prepared to contribute in more/different ways

 

[LORDE]

Brand new to this board but been kicking around Ranger message boards the last 15 years. A rare Ranger fan from the east coast of Canada.

Solid start last night. Kakko showed lots of confidence with the puck. The PP picked up where it left off. The PK looks like it will be a little more aggressive than in the past. Was happy with the kid Jones as well. Body positioning and having an active stick will be key for him to stand up to the big boys. Chytil was hurt a little by the rotating lines.

Welcome

 

[Kodiak]

Trocheck looking like a significant upgrade over Strome. He's also way better at actually playing the bumper position on the pp.

Before the kid line got put together and I think people are forgetting how dominant Kakko looked on the top line last season. The production might not have been there but it would have came if he didn't get injured.

One injury and Chytil lost all his linemates. Luckily he's good enough by now to do just fine as a third line center even if he's put with spare parts.

I like Laf on the Panarin line. If VK is back soon I'd slide him down to Chytil's wing. If GG can get good matchups for that third line, which shouldn't be too hard, the two of them can do some damage against the rest of the bottom six in the NHL.

The defense looked great. Hopefully they can stay healthy because they don't have much backup for now.

According to the fancy stats, Chytil, Goodrow, and Vesey played 4:13 together. They had a 100% Corsi and generated 4 scoring chances (2 high danger) while giving up no scoring chances against, but I can't remember a single chance they created. I agree with you that we need a winger with some offensive talent on that line if we want production out of it. Otherwise, they look like a line that can get zone time and cycle, but not generate much.

 

[McRanger92]

Yes, Krav was easily our best player tonight

Kravtsov was a true team player getting hurt so he could get the other kids more minutes. Love the selflessness! Am I doing this right @EdJovanovski ?

 

[bigdog16]

Trocheck looking like a significant upgrade over Strome. He's also way better at actually playing the bumper position on the pp.

Before the kid line got put together and I think people are forgetting how dominant Kakko looked on the top line last season. The production might not have been there but it would have came if he didn't get injured.

One injury and Chytil lost all his linemates. Luckily he's good enough by now to do just fine as a third line center even if he's put with spare parts.

I like Laf on the Panarin line. If VK is back soon I'd slide him down to Chytil's wing. If GG can get good matchups for that third line, which shouldn't be too hard, the two of them can do some damage against the rest of the bottom six in the NHL.

The defense looked great. Hopefully they can stay healthy because they don't have much backup for now.

100% an upgrade. Trocheck is actually a threat at the bumper, which we never had last year. That will open up more looks for Zib on the PP

 

[JHS]

Penalties were being called at an alarming rate in the second and third period. Should the coach just run the bench like a 10U rec league team and say “next group you go out there” just so every kid plays around the same time or should he run the bench like an NHL team and put players into the game in roles they are ready for??? If a stat is out there that says “percentage of even strength time on ice” for those two periods I’d venture to say that Kappo played about 33% of even strength time” during those periods considering out of 40 minutes in question, something like 10 or more of those minutes were either the Rangers on the power play, short handed or 4 on 4.

Why let important facts get in the way of an outdated narrative designed to harpoon a coach that got the team to the conference finals last year and a team that just dominated the defending eastern conference champs??!?

hang on here, this isnt monday morning qb. there were just preseason games to start giving these guys exposure to pk minutes, gallant even acknowledged that they needed to start doing that during camp. i am not saying dump out the players meant for that role, but i am saying integrate these kids the way you said you would so they dont play 6 minutes out of 40 mins in a game.

youre the one talking about a "narrative" yet you are trying to manipulate my words to suggest i am offering some narrative that doesnt exist. turk literally brought this up himself weeks ago and said he needed to work them into the pk so that what happened last night doesnt happen...


i am not focused on the pp time. that is the thing people are misunderstanding. i am saying IF you are going 90/30 split on pp then start integrating the kids into the pk rotation (like turk said he was going to do) so that when games turn into a specialty teams sprint you dont completely lose these guys from contributing to the game and they get iced. turk acknowledged this and said he needed to get them into the pk rotation so that is what i want to see if the pp time remains limited. either way the team in april will be in a better position if more players are prepared to contribute in more/different ways

Wait- during a game in which the penalty killing looked incredible and scored a shrot handed goal the coach somehow should have shook up the penalty kill to get Kappo and Laf on the ice more?

Winning an NHL hockey game is the goal here. My point about a narrative is people have argued on here that developing players should be the goal. I'm simply suggesting that we shift towards "how do we win hockey games."

 

[McRanger92]

Wait- during a game in which the penalty killing looked incredible and scored a shrot handed goal the coach somehow should have shook up the penalty kill to get Kappo and Laf on the ice more?

Winning an NHL hockey game is the goal here. My point about a narrative is people have argued on here that developing players should be the goal. I'm simply suggesting that we shift towards "how do we win hockey games."

Winning is more important than development for this team, but some fans are blind to the fact that both are happening in front of our eyes. Every young player has improved more under Gallant than they ever did under Quinn when the Rangers were allegedly focused on development.

Been saying it all summer but its a great time to be a Ranger fans, the best is yet to come

 

[bleedblue94]

Wait- during a game in which the penalty killing looked incredible and scored a shrot handed goal the coach somehow should have shook up the penalty kill to get Kappo and Laf on the ice more?

so this is monday morning bc you are justifying it by the end result when I am saying that he should have done what he said he was going to do. we dont know if the pk is still good with the kids rotating through, we also dont know that it would have been bad. we do know that if you never expose them to it then they wont get better at it. turk said he wanted to get them mins on the pk and then he didnt.

 

[bleedblue94]

Winning is more important than development for this team, but some fans are blind to the fact that both are happening in front of our eyes. Every young player has improved more under Gallant than they ever did under Quinn when the Rangers were allegedly focused on development.

Been saying it all summer but its a great time to be a Ranger fans, the best is yet to come

they absolutely have, absolutely. i am bringing up and holding turk to what he said he wanted and was going to do but then he didnt.

everyone here says the kids and how they play will dictate what this team does going forward. i am not saying punt the season to play the kids 30 a game, i am saying that if you prescribe to the notion that the kids and general youth on this team and their ability to contribute in multi and meaningful ways will play a large role in what this team does in february onward this year then you need to use the time in the earlier parts of the season to also develop those players in the manner that you the coach already said you need and want to do.

 

[McRanger92]

they absolutely have, absolutely. i am bringing up and holding turk to what he said he wanted and was going to do but then he didnt.

everyone here says the kids and how they play will dictate what this team does going forward. i am not saying punt the season to play the kids 30 a game, i am saying that if you prescribe to the notion that the kids and general youth on this team and their ability to contribute in multi and meaningful ways will play a large role in what this team does in february onward this year then you need to use the time in the earlier parts of the season to also develop those players in the manner that you the coach already said you need and want to do.

I mean, they did greatly contribute to the win yesterday. The scoring will come. I saw Laf out there on the PK as well. Gallant also got the Kid Line together for some shifts after our PP's ended. I thought it was a very well coached game by him, and I am a critic of his in game tactics normally.

 

[mas0764]

Can we all give up the " kids must play" nonsense. This is not a "development team" anymore. They made the conference finals last year. This team deserves its shot at the cup now while the window is open. This argument of "play the kids so they develop" does not even hold up on any level. The kids ARE DEVELOPING even with their current allocation of time. No one could argue differently. In addition the idea that they have to play in every situation so they can learn from being in that situation is just fundamentally not how players develop. They learn from being around knowledge of more experienced players and sharing in the common experience of being on the team and seeing how others handle situations. It's not like putting the young guys in the situations they are not suited for allows them to develop any quicker. It actually erodes at their confidence!

Some posters on here are still posting like it's the "David Quinn" era( error) and fail to adjust their stance and recognize this team is way better off than anyone could have thought and the kids are contributing and learning from being around a very successful team!

It's not about developing Kakko, he's flat better than most of the players even at holding a lead and should be playing.

 

[bleedblue94]

I mean, they did greatly contribute to the win yesterday. The scoring will come. I saw Laf out there on the PK as well. Gallant also got the Kid Line together for some shifts after our PP's ended. I thought it was a very well coached game by him, and I am a critic of his in game tactics normally.

why do the goalposts keep shifting here?

i brought up the fact kakko played 6 minutes total in the seond and third periods which would prorate to 9 mins over a full game. how can anyone defend this especially when the team had 11 forwards? when did kakko become stu bickle?

 

[mas0764]

if you want win at the end you need everyone able to contribute in multiple roles. it is shortsighted to just focus on the reg season and winning those games only. if you think it is okay for a guy like kakko to play 6 total minutes over the 2nd and 3rd period after he was one of our best players over 7 minutes in the first period then we just wont agree at all. I have been one of kakko's biggest critics recently but he looked engaged and confident, then they basically staple him to the bench. that does nothing to help bring him along. i am not saying they need to be playing 20 a night, but the staff can do better then they have at allocating minutes. we saw in the playoffs what a big affect these younger guys can have when they are going.

Some of the win-now crowd has fallen so far down the rabbit hole of arguing against playing the kids and building for the future at all costs, that they have spun themselves into knots arguing against things that would help the team actually win now.

why do the goalposts keep shifting here?

i brought up the fact kakko played 6 minutes total in the seond and third periods which would prorate to 9 mins over a full game. how can anyone defend this especially when the team had 11 forwards. when did kakko become stu bickle

Yup. Inexcusable.

Not only does Kakko still need developing, he's better than the people who played over him, point blank,

 

[JHS]

so this is monday morning bc you are justifying it by the end result when I am saying that he should have done what he said he was going to do. we dont know if the pk is still good with the kids rotating through, we also dont know that it would have been bad. we do know that if you never expose them to it then they wont get better at it. turk said he wanted to get them mins on the pk and then he didnt.

I don't understand any of this. That's ok though. The Rangers won and that's all I care about.

It's not about developing Kakko, he's flat better than most of the players even at holding a lead and should be playing.

But he does not penalty kill. It's absurd that you all just want him thrown out on the ice so his TOI is more. Please realize that this is not the goal of a coach. It would be like saying an NFL coach should put the fastest running back on defense because the defense is on the field to much and you need your best players to play more often. That's as illogical as what you all are proposing here.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Carpenters faceoff loss on that 5 on 3 skewed my thoughts early. He was ok for who/what he is.

Carp looked okay? At least he did live and it seemed like the 4th line barely played.

Zib was a don. Miller was a don. Igor was a don. I did not think anyone was really putrid. Even Revo had a few good shifts.

Cal Foote looked like Tampa kept Hajek and made him shoot right handed

Maybe. I was just really pissed at him during that 5-3 and perhaps that half bottle of Weller 12 skewed my perception a bit...

 

[bleedblue94]

I don't understand any of this. That's ok though. The Rangers won and that's all I care about.


But he does not penalty kill. It's absurd that you all just want him thrown out on the ice so his TOI is more. Please realize that this is not the goal of a coach. It would be like saying an NFL coach should put the fastest running back on defense because the defense is on the field to much and you need your best players to play more often. That's as illogical as what you all are proposing here.

The part you are missing and constantly ignoring is turk himself said he wanted to use them on the pk so exactly what happened last night did not happen with a player like kakko getting 6 mins over 40 game minutes. THAT is why people are concerned. it isnt because we think it is an issue, it is because turk himself acknowledged it as an issue that he wanted to fix and he said putting them on the pk would help that, but then he deploys as he did yesterday.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

why do the goalposts keep shifting here?

i brought up the fact kakko played 6 minutes total in the seond and third periods which would prorate to 9 mins over a full game. how can anyone defend this especially when the team had 11 forwards. when did kakko become stu bickle

Literally almost half of the last 2 periods was played on the PK.

If you want to make the case that he should be on the PK, fine I'll buy that and agree with it.

Lets not act like he was stapled to the bench because some shitty vets got ice time instead. He played more 5v5 than Krieder and Zibanejad did last night.

 

[Brooklyndevil]

Rangers really looked good last night. Your team has a great defense. Maybe the best in the league. The top goaltender and several great forwards. Good luck and enjoy.