OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: New season of plundering begins

[WickedWrister]

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Jones is love, Jones is life, Jones does not forgive.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Other than the Chapman distress, that's pretty much how you draw up a Monday night win against an NL Central opponent when you have the pitching advantage.

With the slide ending and winning game 1, I think the goalposts shift a bit. Taking 3/4 vs the Brewers would be the perfect way to put that behind us. Not going to say I expect it, but the opportunity is there. Absolutely must split the series.

 

[BusinessGoose]

RAISE IT

Feels good to win again lol

 

[Scandale du Jour]

When Skenes comes up, we will have a pretty good 1-2 punch.

 

[Empoleon8771]

When Skenes comes up, we will have a pretty good 1-2 punch.

And Keller's performance and salary as the #3 is no issue either.

They have something really special with the group of pitchers they have right now IMO. Now the bats just need to pan out.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Jose DeLeon and Stephen Strasburg in the same stat?

Never thought I'd see the day.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

We really need the last day or two to be what gets Cruz going, because he has to be a catalyst for the offense if we're going to have a prayer to do much of anything. I wonder if we'll see Cutch stick at the top of the order. I like the idea of Cruz in that role long-term, but I can't help but think it might be something that is a contributing factor to the stress of getting back into a routine.

I'm not sure how you'd arrange it, but maybe something like putting Cruz 4th with Joe (or Olivares) behind him and dropping Tellez down the 6th.

The other thing that stands out is that we have to be approaching a decision point with Davis. A convergence of factors lead me to think it has to just be a full reset in AAA: basically no real signs of snapping out of it, Bart looking fine in a rotation + general catching depth in the organization, and Grandal probably being close to ready. It's not the greatest outcome, but assuming Grandal is ready for the road trip this weekend, I think you have to make the swap. DFAing Bart seems like enough of a mistake on its own. He might not amount to much, but he's earned at least a look until we see what (if anything) Grandal can do while Davis goes to AAA and earns his way back.

 

[sovietsanta87]

And Keller's performance and salary as the #3 is no issue either.

They have something really special with the group of pitchers they have right now IMO. Now the bats just need to pan out.

I think they need to shop a prospect like Bubba Chandler for a bat. A real bat with a couple years of control

 

[DJ Spinoza]

You definitely need to give to get, but I'm really wary of trading Chandler, which I have maybe made into beating a dead horse. I know this sounds ridiculous and that he will have to prove it in the majors, but I think Chandler's fastball is better than Jones'. He's still maturing into a full-time pitcher and the early results are good.

Obviously if you can get a stud hitter for a pitching prospect, you heavily consider it, but I think Chandler in particular has the chance to be an x-factor coming down the pipe. I don't even want to bring this up but you figure that if Chandler keeps progressing as a high K, front of rotation pitcher, then maybe you dodge a bullet if only one of Skenes, Jones, or him gets hurt and you have the other two (plus Keller).

Hard to say. I think teams are reluctant to give up stud hitters because you can always find a role for them. With exceptions, pitching is often more fungible and is quantity over quality in general with the pitcher prospect situation (which is one reason teams seem indifferent to the obvious that high velocity = huge injury risk).

That's why getting Davis going is so important, because he has the potential to be that thumping bat in the order who also draws walks and doesn't K too much. This is also where Cherington's pretty dismal trade record comes into the equation. Maybe Peguero really pans out, but he didn't net one everyday position player while dealing away Marte et al.

 

[sovietsanta87]

I just think the cupboard is bare on the hitting side. Looking at Termarr’s numbers early on it looks like he’s trying to walk his way up the ranks. He won’t be here for at least another season and a half. If he makes it at all.

Nick Gonzales looks amazing right now but he seems like the perfect AAAA player.

Rhys Hoskins might be a dill doh but he can mash. We still desperately need a first baseman and a right fielder that can clear the bases.

 

[Rave7215]

You definitely need to give to get, but I'm really wary of trading Chandler, which I have maybe made into beating a dead horse. I know this sounds ridiculous and that he will have to prove it in the majors, but I think Chandler's fastball is better than Jones'. He's still maturing into a full-time pitcher and the early results are good.

Obviously if you can get a stud hitter for a pitching prospect, you heavily consider it, but I think Chandler in particular has the chance to be an x-factor coming down the pipe. I don't even want to bring this up but you figure that if Chandler keeps progressing as a high K, front of rotation pitcher, then maybe you dodge a bullet if only one of Skenes, Jones, or him gets hurt and you have the other two (plus Keller).

Hard to say. I think teams are reluctant to give up stud hitters because you can always find a role for them. With exceptions, pitching is often more fungible and is quantity over quality in general with the pitcher prospect situation (which is one reason teams seem indifferent to the obvious that high velocity = huge injury risk).

That's why getting Davis going is so important, because he has the potential to be that thumping bat in the order who also draws walks and doesn't K too much. This is also where Cherington's pretty dismal trade record comes into the equation. Maybe Peguero really pans out, but he didn't net one everyday position player while dealing away Marte et al.

Chandler has been absolutely filthy. O all our prospects in the pipeline, he's the one I'd least want to trade. A rotation of Skenes, Jones, Chandler next year could be absolutely insane.

 

[MrBrightside]

I just think the cupboard is bare on the hitting side. Looking at Termarr’s numbers early on it looks like he’s trying to walk his way up the ranks. He won’t be here for at least another season and a half. If he makes it at all.

Nick Gonzales looks amazing right now but he seems like the perfect AAAA player.

Rhys Hoskins might be a dill doh but he can mash. We still desperately need a first baseman and a right fielder that can clear the bases.

Yeah other than maybe Johnson, about whom there seems considerable debate, the cupboard for bats is quite bare in the minors. I don't even know who the 2nd best hitting prospect would be - Lonnie White, I guess. Maybe Cheng. But there's no power anywhere to be found and 1B and DH and RF are going to have to be mishmashes of bargain basement free agents like we see every year.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Yeah other than maybe Johnson, about whom there seems considerable debate, the cupboard for bats is quite bare in the minors. I don't even know who the 2nd best hitting prospect would be - Lonnie White, I guess. Maybe Cheng. But there's no power anywhere to be found and 1B and DH and RF are going to have to be mishmashes of bargain basement free agents like we see every year.

They didn't exactly give Brannigan the vote of confidence starting him in Greensboro.

I'd note that Endy is a significant position player prospect, though frankly his bat looked bad at the MLB level last year.

 

[MrBrightside]

He's probably waiting for a better offer but Brandon Belt would help this team a lot.

 

[BusinessGoose]

I just think our current lineup just needs to not be greedy at the plate or make stupid baseruns

I mean, coming into the year we felt hitting would be at least solid. It's been, in the wins. But when they go up and 3K or first pitch flyout or GIDB, we lose, cause the pitching struggles to keep the other team below 3 runs.

I know it's not rocket science "oh don't strikeout and you won't suck"... But i mean, that's it, isn't it?

I don't know if a trade really does it. In the games where we're losing our collective minds trying to bat, one guy is gonna help?

 

[sovietsanta87]

I just think our current lineup just needs to not be greedy at the plate or make stupid baseruns

I mean, coming into the year we felt hitting would be at least solid. It's been, in the wins. But when they go up and 3K or first pitch flyout or GIDB, we lose, cause the pitching struggles to keep the other team below 3 runs.

I know it's not rocket science "oh don't strikeout and you won't suck"... But i mean, that's it, isn't it?

I don't know if a trade really does it. In the games where we're losing our collective minds trying to bat, one guy is gonna help?

That’s a good point. We’ve given away way too many outs. Offense and defense. Errors happen. Baserunning mistakes happen. But the frequency is inexcusable

 

[MrBrightside]

That’s a good point. We’ve given away way too many outs. Offense and defense. Errors happen. Baserunning mistakes happen. But the frequency is inexcusable

Eh, while true, that's not the real issue. They are 21st in OPS, 26th in HR, and 23rd in SLG% - they just aren't producing at key spots like Tellez, Cutch, Cruz, and Davis - and while it would be great if they'd stop getting thrown out on the bases, that's a small problem compared to the lack of production from guys that they need to have produce. Problem is that Tellez, Cutch, and Davis, while not THIS bad, are probably not impact bats anyway.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Eh, while true, that's not the real issue. They are 21st in OPS, 26th in HR, and 23rd in SLG% - they just aren't producing at key spots like Tellez, Cutch, Cruz, and Davis - and while it would be great if they'd stop getting thrown out on the bases, that's a small problem compared to the lack of production from guys that they need to have produce. Problem is that Tellez, Cutch, and Davis, while not THIS bad, are probably not impact bats anyway.

Where do we rank with strikeouts and left on bases?

 

[MrBrightside]

Where do we rank with strikeouts and left on bases?

We are 5th in strikeouts, but also are 3rd in BB and therefore are 10th in OBP despite having a middling batting average. There are pros and cons with a patient approach but to me the issue is that it doesn't necessarily suit everyone...and the bigger issue we have a lot of players who are either washed or just not very good.

 

[BusinessGoose]

We are 5th in strikeouts, but also are 3rd in BB and therefore are 10th in OBP despite having a middling batting average. There are pros and cons with a patient approach but to me the issue is that it doesn't necessarily suit everyone...and the bigger issue we have a lot of players who are either washed or just not very good.

Certainly been missing a lot of clutch opportunities

They're doing about what I expected. But it's not a contender right now. And it's gonna suck to waste some of our young guys' abilities throughout the year

 

[DJ Spinoza]

I'm still extremely bullish on Johnson long-term, but the hitting prospect group definitely leaves you wanting. It's feasible that we could draft a decent impact college bat who could move quickly, but hard to bank on that being something that really helps even the 2025 team.

That said, a lot of this can be solved by actually paying for free agents. It's low-hanging fruit but as we are seeing, a swap of Tellez for Hoskins would really change the dynamic of the lineup, and it's not like Hoskins is making bank. The only thing I would say is that Hoskins is obviously extremely broken from the surgery (I bet Tellez would beat him in a foot race), so I don't know how that impacts his defense, but I doubt he gets another contract similar to what he got.

Still, the general point would be that we could pay for an everyday, above average position player to supplement the lineup. Whether we will do that or not remains to be seen, but we clearly aren't doing that with a pitcher.

 

[WickedWrister]

Good interview with Jared Jones that was recorded a few days ago. Talks about where his velocity comes from, workload, his and the organizations approach to pitching, being a two way player in high school, Paul Skenes etc...

 

[MrBrightside]

Lengthy series of tweets about Jones and his adjustments since last year and how completely dominant he's been this year - definitely worth checking out.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I will admit, I thought Jones was going to be a good MLB pitcher but I'm shocked at how downright dominant he is. I thought he was more realistically looking at #3 upside, but he may legitimately have Strider-like upside with how nasty his stuff is.

Strider is in the same exact boat as him as mostly only being a 2 pitch pitcher, but his fastball/slider combo is so deadly that he's going to be in contention for the Cy Young every year he's healthy. I don't want to say Jones will end up quite that good, but his stuff is so filthy that I don't even think it's a stretch to make the comparison.

Skenes is the same way as having a lethal fastball/slider combo, but I think Skenes' tertiary pitches are better developed than Jones'.