OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: New season of plundering begins

[TNT87]

I hope to Heller I never see him pitch again in a Pirate uniform.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Is Olivares going in there to pitch LOL

The like six year old "play ball" kid would pitch better than whatever the f*** this team just did

Twins should bean every one of our guys

 

[Rossi Rat]

Hey at least they took 2/3 from LA and went 4-2 on this home stand!

Is anyone OK with that? Because it’s year 5 under this regime, they’re 3 games under .500 and haven’t been able to piece together 3 straight wins since early May. They’re doing JUST ENOUGH to keep us strung along but not enough to be serious contenders.

 

[BusinessGoose]

That was some of the... Most... Shocking baseball that has every been played

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

What the Hell(er) was that inning?

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Hey at least they took 2/3 from LA and went 4-2 on this home stand!

Is anyone OK with that? Because it’s year 5 under this regime, they’re 3 games under .500 and haven’t been able to piece together 3 straight wins since early May. They’re doing JUST ENOUGH to keep us strung along but not enough to be serious contenders.

No sane person would be disappointed if you told them that we'd go 4-2 on a homestand vs the Dodgers and Twins. Today was disappointing but momentum and progress are won or lost over the long haul and not instantaneously.

We are 12-8 since about mid-May. That's not world beating but it's plenty sustainable for what will be a dogfight to the very end with how bunched up the NL is. For most of the teams besides the Braves, you can probably find one that will be a game or two below .500 and then in a playoff position a week later.

It's just the way it is right now, and the Braves might close the game and make the race even more wide open, as they just dropped 3 out of 4 against the Nationals for the second time and have several tough series coming up against the Orioles, Yankees, and to a lesser extent Cardinals.

There's really no cause for alarm or panic after one frustrating loss that could have easily been a win with better execution. We took care of business on the home stand and how have a big road series against St. Louis with Skenes starting on Tuesday and Keller lined up for Thursday.

 

[Ryder71]

Thing is, they shouldn't have lost. This team gave away a game because of the umpires missing a file tip. That's ridiculous. Can't believe in this day and age such an egregious mistake is allowed to stand. IT was very decisive in the outcome.

 

[Pens1566]

I don't think I've ever seen a 7 run extra inning. That's just impressive.

 

[Rossi Rat]

No sane person would be disappointed if you told them that we'd go 4-2 on a homestand vs the Dodgers and Twins. Today was disappointing but momentum and progress are won or lost over the long haul and not instantaneously.

We are 12-8 since about mid-May. That's not world beating but it's plenty sustainable for what will be a dogfight to the very end with how bunched up the NL is. For most of the teams besides the Braves, you can probably find one that will be a game or two below .500 and then in a playoff position a week later.

It's just the way it is right now, and the Braves might close the game and make the race even more wide open, as they just dropped 3 out of 4 against the Nationals for the second time and have several tough series coming up against the Orioles, Yankees, and to a lesser extent Cardinals.

There's really no cause for alarm or panic after one frustrating loss that could have easily been a win with better execution. We took care of business on the home stand and how have a big road series against St. Louis with Skenes starting on Tuesday and Keller lined up for Thursday.

That’s fair, we’re pessimists by nature but the overall mediocrity of this franchise for decades has jaded us. It is a long season and other teams have their share of issues too. I said that, but then I looked at the two series this week and tried convincing myself they could go no worse than 4-2, possibly 5-1, and still stay afloat.

Not that we’ll get this far or even make the playoffs (obv hope I’m wrong) but even Arizona got to the World Series with 84 wins last season.

 

[Empoleon8771]

No sane person would be disappointed if you told them that we'd go 4-2 on a homestand vs the Dodgers and Twins. Today was disappointing but momentum and progress are won or lost over the long haul and not instantaneously.

We are 12-8 since about mid-May. That's not world beating but it's plenty sustainable for what will be a dogfight to the very end with how bunched up the NL is. For most of the teams besides the Braves, you can probably find one that will be a game or two below .500 and then in a playoff position a week later.

It's just the way it is right now, and the Braves might close the game and make the race even more wide open, as they just dropped 3 out of 4 against the Nationals for the second time and have several tough series coming up against the Orioles, Yankees, and to a lesser extent Cardinals.

There's really no cause for alarm or panic after one frustrating loss that could have easily been a win with better execution. We took care of business on the home stand and how have a big road series against St. Louis with Skenes starting on Tuesday and Keller lined up for Thursday.

Yeah I think the team on the year has basically met expectations: a mediocre .500-ish team. The rotation and the big names will keep the team from bottoming out, but the depth and bullpen will limit how good they'll be. That's a big reason why I'm optimistic going forward with this team, it's easier to fix the depth and bullpen than it is to get a good core and good rotation.

With that being said, their upside is like 85 wins as long as they don't fix that, and frankly that upside feels generous. This feels like another 77-85 type of season IMO.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

That’s fair, we’re pessimists by nature but the overall mediocrity of this franchise for decades has jaded us. It is a long season and other teams have their share of issues too. I said that, but then I looked at the two series this week and tried convincing myself they could go no worse than 4-2, possibly 5-1, and still stay afloat.

Not that we’ll get this far or even make the playoffs (obv hope I’m wrong) but even Arizona got to the World Series with 84 wins last season.

Yeah, I think it just comes down to the situation today. To start, you had Jones being really wild in the first inning which immediately cost us some important runs and probably cost him the chance to go 6 innings. There was the bad call which made the inning worse, but there's no denying that Jones needed a few innings to settle in.

But ultimately any close game was going to come down to the worst couple guys in the bullpen. It's no excuse, but those roster spots aren't very good on most teams. At best they are extremely inconsistent.

Maybe if Jones goes 6, we don't need to use Heller and somehow dance through the raindrops. Heller and Nicolas are both bad to the point where we need to look to replace them because they are total liabilities. But we have also seen multiple guys like Ryan and Fleming fail in this role and so there aren't a ton of other internal options. People are pointing out that Contreras has been serviceable for LAA and I think that's on BC. Zooming out further, it's very puzzling that we sent Brubaker out, because if Brubaker was making his way back to MLB, then having him as a kind of jack of all trades middle relief guy would be some light at the end of the tunnel for this situation.

In any case, we've still created some good momentum for ourselves despite this big problem with the team. Tellez actually being a live bat would change the dynamic of the offense pretty significantly. We had a 4-2 home stand and now there's good opportunity to carry the energy to a 4-2 road trip. There's 3 vs St. Louis where we have good pitching advantages in 2 of them and then 3 vs Colorado. Simply winning both series would be huge, because taking 2/3 from St. Louis would set a good tone.

 

[Ryder71]

I don't think I've ever seen a 7 run extra inning. That's just impressive.

It shouldn't have gotten to that point, they got cheated in the 1st inning. Can't believe no one else here is griping about it.

 

[BusinessGoose]

It shouldn't have gotten to that point, they got cheated in the 1st inning. Can't believe no one else here is griping about it.

It is what it is, man. You don't need to worry about that call if you didn't already do about 27 stupid ass plays in the first inning.


The bigger issue, it's an unreviewable play. That needs to be changed in the off-season. We can check hit by pitches but not foul tips?

 

[Ryder71]

It is what it is, man. You don't need to worry about that call if you didn't already do about 27 stupid ass plays in the first inning.


The bigger issue, it's an unreviewable play. That needs to be changed in the off-season. We can check hit by pitches but not foul tips?

That's my point, but it cost them the game. Everyone's worried about the crap storm in extra innings but it never would have gotten to that point IF that 3rd twins run never happened. Not one umpire, as well as Davis to not see or hear that just boggles my mind. And I had no money on that game whatsoever. But anyone who did got hosed. I've never seen a play like that that didn't get fixed.

 

[Rossi Rat]

Yeah, I think it just comes down to the situation today. To start, you had Jones being really wild in the first inning which immediately cost us some important runs and probably cost him the chance to go 6 innings. There was the bad call which made the inning worse, but there's no denying that Jones needed a few innings to settle in.

But ultimately any close game was going to come down to the worst couple guys in the bullpen. It's no excuse, but those roster spots aren't very good on most teams. At best they are extremely inconsistent.

Maybe if Jones goes 6, we don't need to use Heller and somehow dance through the raindrops. Heller and Nicolas are both bad to the point where we need to look to replace them because they are total liabilities. But we have also seen multiple guys like Ryan and Fleming fail in this role and so there aren't a ton of other internal options. People are pointing out that Contreras has been serviceable for LAA and I think that's on BC. Zooming out further, it's very puzzling that we sent Brubaker out, because if Brubaker was making his way back to MLB, then having him as a kind of jack of all trades middle relief guy would be some light at the end of the tunnel for this situation.

In any case, we've still created some good momentum for ourselves despite this big problem with the team. Tellez actually being a live bat would change the dynamic of the offense pretty significantly. We had a 4-2 home stand and now there's good opportunity to carry the energy to a 4-2 road trip. There's 3 vs St. Louis where we have good pitching advantages in 2 of them and then 3 vs Colorado. Simply winning both series would be huge, because taking 2/3 from St. Louis would set a good tone.

4-2 would be ideal. One game under .500 and then a stretch where 6 of their next 9 are against the suddenly hot Reds. I am a bit nervous though because while they’ve also been mediocre, they’re still the big bad Cardinals and they’ve done things like give the Orioles their only sweep of the season. Also with Colorado - the pirates already lost to them once and did pretty bad against the Angels and A’s.

 

[MrBrightside]

Yeah, I think it just comes down to the situation today. To start, you had Jones being really wild in the first inning which immediately cost us some important runs and probably cost him the chance to go 6 innings. There was the bad call which made the inning worse, but there's no denying that Jones needed a few innings to settle in.

But ultimately any close game was going to come down to the worst couple guys in the bullpen. It's no excuse, but those roster spots aren't very good on most teams. At best they are extremely inconsistent.

Maybe if Jones goes 6, we don't need to use Heller and somehow dance through the raindrops. Heller and Nicolas are both bad to the point where we need to look to replace them because they are total liabilities. But we have also seen multiple guys like Ryan and Fleming fail in this role and so there aren't a ton of other internal options. People are pointing out that Contreras has been serviceable for LAA and I think that's on BC. Zooming out further, it's very puzzling that we sent Brubaker out, because if Brubaker was making his way back to MLB, then having him as a kind of jack of all trades middle relief guy would be some light at the end of the tunnel for this situation.

In any case, we've still created some good momentum for ourselves despite this big problem with the team. Tellez actually being a live bat would change the dynamic of the offense pretty significantly. We had a 4-2 home stand and now there's good opportunity to carry the energy to a 4-2 road trip. There's 3 vs St. Louis where we have good pitching advantages in 2 of them and then 3 vs Colorado. Simply winning both series would be huge, because taking 2/3 from St. Louis would set a good tone.

Most of this is not wrong, but I come back to what it demonstrates about the mindset of this organization. They had a bullpen game on Saturday and had presumably 4 guys in the pen not available on Sunday. A serious organization would have made a move or two to get fresh arms up for today (Jose Hernandez isn't very good, but compared to Heller and Nicolas he's 1997 Billy Wagner), and then pulling Jones after throwing 84 pitches up a run with a crazy short bullpen is also shaky. I get they are watching his pitch count, but if that's what led to the early pull. all the more reason you have to make moves ahead of the game to have some depth. Under no circumstances should you find yourself in the 10th inning and having your only option be a guy with a 45.00 ERA. This is all stuff you do when you're rebuilding and results don't matter and it belies any lip service to the contrary.

 

[sovietsanta87]

I hope to Heller I never see him pitch again in a Pirate uniform.

Dude is pitching like a combination of Helen and Keller

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Here's my unpopular take for the off day: Ben Heller is the exact kind of guy who teams like Tampa and LA snap up for middle relief. The stuff is nasty, and to some extent with these guys, you have the ignore the noise of one-off horrid outings.

I totally get the sentiment of not wanting to ever see him again, but that's just the way it is with these kinds of guys. It's frustrating in the Pirates case because we're already seeing it with Nicolas, just as we saw it before with Shelby, but again, this is sort of the nature of the game in the world of failed starting pitchers who make up RP options.

I won't make any defense of Cherington's preparedness or seeming inability to make a decisive change. These are problems that go back multiple offseasons and extend beyond the final guy or two in the bullpen. But I will say that given the organizational depth, I don't see the sense in booting Heller just yet.

To me, the bigger question right now is whether Mlodzinski will be more consistent and effective going forward. He started off a nice run in the bullpen game before Ortiz (who is pitching about as well as you can want from a MRP/swingman) took over. We maybe have the good Chapman back in the fold now to go along with pretty reliable Holderman and Bednar. If Mlodzinski can be the 4th pitcher in that equation, then that's more significant than anything else.

The reason I say that is that then you have some depth to alternate with when things are going well, as well as an option to covert a Jones/Skenes/Keller start into a win even if the SP isn't pristine. I am still fine with being disappointed at not securing the sweep yesterday, but with a series win and winning homestand in the bag, it's a little too much missing the forest for the trees for me.

 

[MrBrightside]

 

[WickedWrister]

EDIT: People are saying Olney got his account hacked?



EDIT 2:

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Goodrum is the most Pirate name ever.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

You need good rum to be a Pirates fan.

Thank you.

 

[sovietsanta87]

You need good rum to be a Pirates fan.

Thank you.

No you don’t lol. Rubbing alcohol and orange juice are sufficient

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

No you don’t lol. Rubbing alcohol and orange juice are sufficient

If his name Niko Cheaprum, it'd be perfect.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Heller getting claimed by the Dodgers now seems inevitable.