OnMyOwn
Worlds Apart
- Sep 7, 2005
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OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Dull days of July
- Thread starter Zirakzigil
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DJ Spinoza
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- Aug 7, 2003
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I probably don't need to bang on the Jazz drum anymore than I already have but to me he is still just the perfect target. He fills the important position that we need, now and in the next few years, and he also adds some dynamism that we really lack.
It's just speculative, but in terms of run production, I think adding his speed to the top of the lineup could help out a lot. We're already starting to see Cruz unleashed a little bit more on the basepaths, and I think having two legit SB threats could help scratch out more runs.
I didn't listen to the original Heyman thing so I don't really know how Bell fits into the equation according to him, but I don't know that it makes a lot of sense. He makes a ton of money, is only signed for this year, and has had a down season. If Rowdy hadn't turned things around, I guess it could make sense as some kind of change of scenery thing, but it wouldn't make sense for the Marlins to try and dump his salary together with Jazz and deflate his value, and he really wouldn't have a place on this team other than as co-DH with Cutch.
It's just speculative, but in terms of run production, I think adding his speed to the top of the lineup could help out a lot. We're already starting to see Cruz unleashed a little bit more on the basepaths, and I think having two legit SB threats could help scratch out more runs.
I didn't listen to the original Heyman thing so I don't really know how Bell fits into the equation according to him, but I don't know that it makes a lot of sense. He makes a ton of money, is only signed for this year, and has had a down season. If Rowdy hadn't turned things around, I guess it could make sense as some kind of change of scenery thing, but it wouldn't make sense for the Marlins to try and dump his salary together with Jazz and deflate his value, and he really wouldn't have a place on this team other than as co-DH with Cutch.
ImporterExporter
"You're a boring old man"
Jazz at a reasonable price is a good get. We might not have Skenes and Jones in October, if we got that far, so it would be foolish to add players on expiring contracts. Chissy could help us beyond 2024, giving you incentive to key on him as a target.
DJ Spinoza
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Just hit a clutch double to put the Marlins ahead of the Orioles late, too.
There's also nobody in free agency. The options are run it back with Taylor / keep trying Suwinski, Harrison Bader, Enrique Hernandez, Victor Robles, Austin Slater, or Kevin Pillar.
Cutch is alright in the leadoff role because he will work the count and take a walk, but adding a true speed threat would change the equation for the better.
There's also nobody in free agency. The options are run it back with Taylor / keep trying Suwinski, Harrison Bader, Enrique Hernandez, Victor Robles, Austin Slater, or Kevin Pillar.
Cutch is alright in the leadoff role because he will work the count and take a walk, but adding a true speed threat would change the equation for the better.
BusinessGoose
Registered User
ChaosAgent
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- May 8, 2018
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A willingness to take Bell's contract would be a big signal by Nutting IMO.
I liked Davis for Chisholm straight up (still do), but if Bell is coming the other way then something like Peguero + Mueth + MA Taylor is probably closer.
I like a Bell add, also. Joe has sucked forever now at this point, and Bell shockingly has become a much better righty hitter than lefty hitter over the last few years. I like the idea of adding Bell as another righty hitter to our lineup vs. lefties.
Josh Bell 2023 MLB Batting Splits - ESPN
View the 2023 MLB Batting splits of Josh Bell on ESPN. Includes full stats per opponent, quarter and down.
DanielPlainview
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- Apr 28, 2009
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Empoleon8771
Registered User
I don't think Bell makes much sense for this team to add. He’s taking away money they could be using on players who actually fill a need.
I think their 1B duo going forward should be Joe and Tellez, with both being retained for next year. That’s at least my hope.
I think their 1B duo going forward should be Joe and Tellez, with both being retained for next year. That’s at least my hope.
DJ Spinoza
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I definitely agree that getting Bell as another RH bat could be useful, but I'm still hung up on both Nutting paying that salary and Miami wasting their current best trade chip to offload his salary. We need more bats period, and a better RHH option would be useful, but Bell would somewhat handicap the bench, though I'd imagine if two bats were brought in, some spots would be cleared up one way or the other.
Dream scenario starts with Jazz as 1A for me, and then I think if you want to truly address the weakness of the team, you find an additional bat. Winker as a pure rental would be the best upgrade and impact, though it would make the lineup more lefty heavy.
I wouldn't mind a slight buy low on Lane Thomas. He gets the job done as an average offensive bat, and he's another guy with plus speed, so that could create a fun change of pace with the strategy. Pham for dirt cheap gives you a veteran who has been in the playoffs before, but he basically just adds empty average.
In theory, I think if you got Chisholm and Winker, then you would keep Taylor as the plus defensive OF. I'd probably keep Joe around for backup 1B and to see if he rebounds. This leaves space to maybe keep Palacios as a pinch hit option, and at times I think you could have Reynolds DH more, leaving Cutch as a RH pinch hit possibility.
Dream scenario starts with Jazz as 1A for me, and then I think if you want to truly address the weakness of the team, you find an additional bat. Winker as a pure rental would be the best upgrade and impact, though it would make the lineup more lefty heavy.
I wouldn't mind a slight buy low on Lane Thomas. He gets the job done as an average offensive bat, and he's another guy with plus speed, so that could create a fun change of pace with the strategy. Pham for dirt cheap gives you a veteran who has been in the playoffs before, but he basically just adds empty average.
In theory, I think if you got Chisholm and Winker, then you would keep Taylor as the plus defensive OF. I'd probably keep Joe around for backup 1B and to see if he rebounds. This leaves space to maybe keep Palacios as a pinch hit option, and at times I think you could have Reynolds DH more, leaving Cutch as a RH pinch hit possibility.
OnMyOwn
Worlds Apart
- Sep 7, 2005
- 19,110
- 4,754
He’s usually closer to .250 and we only have 3 dudes in double digit homeruns. We also have guys hitting sub .200 in the lineup regularly.
So, yea, he’s a bat. Even if it’s not a great one.
BusinessGoose
Registered User
How, indeed....we're frustrated with Suwinski. Bell doesn't even improve on that, pretty much same rate of production. Maybe if Cutch was out, but we don't need another mediocre DH
Last edited:
GilbertSeinfeld
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- Mar 4, 2024
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Can you imagine being that Pejorative Slured to sit Skenes in October if you get there? There's literally no other point than to attempt to win a championship.
DJ Spinoza
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ImporterExporter
"You're a boring old man"
DJ Spinoza
Registered User
- Aug 7, 2003
- 25,923
- 4,494
Last thought for the night: it's too early to really be saying stuff like this, but I think there's a little smoke to the idea that we're willing to deal a starter or a bullpen piece for a bat.
The starters are probably a wait and see situation, in order to basically test whether someone gets desperate because hardly any starters are available. If we are confident Falter will have another rehab start or two and be back (didn't watch, but he threw 60 pitches and went 3 innings, giving up 2 in the first and then seemingly settling down, so would figure he needs at least one more), then it would definitely be feasible to move someone.
If he were performing a little bit better, trading a starter for Mullins wouldn't be the worst idea. There's not as much upside as there is with Jazz, so it would depend in part on how much you believe in a bounce back as an option for next year. Here's an interesting but lazy cherrypicked stat: since June 1, he's hitting .256 with a 110 wRC+. He still gives you a little bit of pop and some speed on the basepaths, so you can squint and see something in the vicinity of the everyday player Jazz provides, albeit one who could be on a downward trend.
That said, I meant to mainly talk about the relievers here. If we couldn't make a baseball trade with a starter, then I'd just bank the depth as we've talked about for a few pages.
With the relievers, it's a tricky path to navigate, because run prevention is really what will make the most impact for us. That said, I think if you can make a baseball trade involving a reliever for an MLB bat, especially one under control for multiple years, you have to really think about it. Maybe I am overlooking someone, but as I pointed out a few pages back, the main team I see this being a fit for is the Orioles, who have a glut of corner OF bats.
I expect the Orioles to be in heavily on starting pitching, so it's tricky to speculate specific names if they end up getting Crochet, but here's my stab. I think the Orioles are in a position to either make their one big trade and get Skubal (which likely involves Holiday -- maybe they get it done without him, but Skubal is arguably the best pitcher in baseball), or else they will turn to other trades. Crochet is kind of a peculiar fit there, because if they use him to chase down the division, he will be out of innings by the playoffs. A reunion with Flaherty seems more their stride, and even though that would cost a little, it gives them someone viable for a playoff series with Burnes and Rodriguez.
In any case, back to the point, they need relief help and we have a surplus of guys. The bold move would be Bednar, but I just can't see us trading our closer. The two names I'd focus on are Chapman and Holderman. Chapman gives them the veteran who is in his best form and has tons of playoff experience, whereas Holderman would give them several more years of control.
I don't have a strong preference between the two. I think Chapman makes more sense to trade purely from an asset standpoint, but if Holderman's extra years of control would secure you the better prospect (for me this would be Beavers over Stowers), then I'd sell high on Holderman. It would be a risk, but in addition to Bednar and the other of Chapman/Holderman, we have seen Mlodzinksi and Nicolas both emerge as solid options this year. Santana actually looks like he might be serviceable with his slider, at least for now.
Stratton was solid before going down with his injury and is working his way back. Same with Borucki. I believe Borucki will be a free agent, but everybody else is controllable and you'll potentially have some young players as well as an Oviedo returning from injury as well as Moreta as options.
My point is just that as a baseball trade, it would make sense as a calculated risk. It's probably too video game-y to pitch Mullins + Beavers/Stowers for Chapman/Holderman + Priester/Falter/Gonzales/Perez would be a perfect way to deal from strength and address the OF holes. It might take some prospect evening, but you can iron out something with either a controllable reliever (Holderman) or starters (Priester/Falter) going back for the controllable OF.
Or a simpler RP for OF one for one deal, such as Chapman for Stowers or Holderman for Beavers. Again, Jazz remains my 1A preference and I think there are a lot of ways to get it done that wouldn't hurt too badly. But I think the Orioles young outfielder glut and need for all pitching really makes them the ideal trading partner, though would definitely take some creativity to find something that is doable for both sides.
The starters are probably a wait and see situation, in order to basically test whether someone gets desperate because hardly any starters are available. If we are confident Falter will have another rehab start or two and be back (didn't watch, but he threw 60 pitches and went 3 innings, giving up 2 in the first and then seemingly settling down, so would figure he needs at least one more), then it would definitely be feasible to move someone.
If he were performing a little bit better, trading a starter for Mullins wouldn't be the worst idea. There's not as much upside as there is with Jazz, so it would depend in part on how much you believe in a bounce back as an option for next year. Here's an interesting but lazy cherrypicked stat: since June 1, he's hitting .256 with a 110 wRC+. He still gives you a little bit of pop and some speed on the basepaths, so you can squint and see something in the vicinity of the everyday player Jazz provides, albeit one who could be on a downward trend.
That said, I meant to mainly talk about the relievers here. If we couldn't make a baseball trade with a starter, then I'd just bank the depth as we've talked about for a few pages.
With the relievers, it's a tricky path to navigate, because run prevention is really what will make the most impact for us. That said, I think if you can make a baseball trade involving a reliever for an MLB bat, especially one under control for multiple years, you have to really think about it. Maybe I am overlooking someone, but as I pointed out a few pages back, the main team I see this being a fit for is the Orioles, who have a glut of corner OF bats.
I expect the Orioles to be in heavily on starting pitching, so it's tricky to speculate specific names if they end up getting Crochet, but here's my stab. I think the Orioles are in a position to either make their one big trade and get Skubal (which likely involves Holiday -- maybe they get it done without him, but Skubal is arguably the best pitcher in baseball), or else they will turn to other trades. Crochet is kind of a peculiar fit there, because if they use him to chase down the division, he will be out of innings by the playoffs. A reunion with Flaherty seems more their stride, and even though that would cost a little, it gives them someone viable for a playoff series with Burnes and Rodriguez.
In any case, back to the point, they need relief help and we have a surplus of guys. The bold move would be Bednar, but I just can't see us trading our closer. The two names I'd focus on are Chapman and Holderman. Chapman gives them the veteran who is in his best form and has tons of playoff experience, whereas Holderman would give them several more years of control.
I don't have a strong preference between the two. I think Chapman makes more sense to trade purely from an asset standpoint, but if Holderman's extra years of control would secure you the better prospect (for me this would be Beavers over Stowers), then I'd sell high on Holderman. It would be a risk, but in addition to Bednar and the other of Chapman/Holderman, we have seen Mlodzinksi and Nicolas both emerge as solid options this year. Santana actually looks like he might be serviceable with his slider, at least for now.
Stratton was solid before going down with his injury and is working his way back. Same with Borucki. I believe Borucki will be a free agent, but everybody else is controllable and you'll potentially have some young players as well as an Oviedo returning from injury as well as Moreta as options.
My point is just that as a baseball trade, it would make sense as a calculated risk. It's probably too video game-y to pitch Mullins + Beavers/Stowers for Chapman/Holderman + Priester/Falter/Gonzales/Perez would be a perfect way to deal from strength and address the OF holes. It might take some prospect evening, but you can iron out something with either a controllable reliever (Holderman) or starters (Priester/Falter) going back for the controllable OF.
Or a simpler RP for OF one for one deal, such as Chapman for Stowers or Holderman for Beavers. Again, Jazz remains my 1A preference and I think there are a lot of ways to get it done that wouldn't hurt too badly. But I think the Orioles young outfielder glut and need for all pitching really makes them the ideal trading partner, though would definitely take some creativity to find something that is doable for both sides.
DJ Spinoza
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- Aug 7, 2003
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Get on the f***ing phone
Empoleon8771
Registered User
From what I can see, a lot of insiders are linking the Pirates and Chisholm at this point. I think it's mostly a logical connection more than anything, but I'm seeing a bunch of smoke around it at this point.
There was a mock trade proposal on The Athletic of Davis and Ashcraft for Chisholm, which seems like too much for me but not crazily so. My issue with that deal is including Ashcraft, doing that deal with a lesser SP prospect would be fine with me.
I'm expecting the deal to look something like Suwinski, Davis/Peguero and a SP prospect below the Ashcraft/Burrow level. Although I'm wondering if it's actually worthwhile to keep Suwinski and bet on him rebounding going forward, this year may be a loss but we know what he can do when he's playing to his abilities. I doubt he has pretty much any value right now, so you'd basically just be throwing him away for nothing by trading him right now.
There was a mock trade proposal on The Athletic of Davis and Ashcraft for Chisholm, which seems like too much for me but not crazily so. My issue with that deal is including Ashcraft, doing that deal with a lesser SP prospect would be fine with me.
I'm expecting the deal to look something like Suwinski, Davis/Peguero and a SP prospect below the Ashcraft/Burrow level. Although I'm wondering if it's actually worthwhile to keep Suwinski and bet on him rebounding going forward, this year may be a loss but we know what he can do when he's playing to his abilities. I doubt he has pretty much any value right now, so you'd basically just be throwing him away for nothing by trading him right now.
DJ Spinoza
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Empoleon8771
Registered User
Another thought I had last night regarding the Pirates trade deadline was that if they're bringing in Chisholm to be their CF, would they instead move Taylor to clear out some money? This largely depends on what they think of Palacios as a 4th OFer, but I think that setup would be Reynolds in LF, Chisholm in CF and Suwinski in RF, with Joe as a backup RF/1B and Palacios as the backup LF/CF. With Bae in AAA as well, I'm not sure I see a need for Taylor with adding Chisholm.
Suwinski has been very good in July (.870 OPS in 16 games), so I imagine they stick with him as one of their OFers. At least for the rest of this year, I'm overall fine with a Suwinski/Joe platoon in one corner OF spot, Reynolds in the other corner OF spot, Chisholm in CF and Palacios as the 4th OF.
Suwinski has been very good in July (.870 OPS in 16 games), so I imagine they stick with him as one of their OFers. At least for the rest of this year, I'm overall fine with a Suwinski/Joe platoon in one corner OF spot, Reynolds in the other corner OF spot, Chisholm in CF and Palacios as the 4th OF.
ChaosAgent
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My idea in going Davis for Chisholm is not having to also give up an SP. If Davis + Ashcraft is what it takes, then I am not sure on Chisholm.
Regarding Davis vs. Suwinski, to me it depends on if we believe Davis is truly a horror show in right or if that was a function of his scattershot development. In a vacuum I think Davis is a better hitting prospect, but if he is only a C/DH that makes it very close.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
I wouldn't mind throwing an additional SP on top of Davis, but it has to be a lower minors type of guy. If they're offering someone like Ashcraft in the Chisholm deal, it's going to be like that deal above of Ashcraft, White and Delgado for Chisholm.
I flip-flop on Davis regularly at this point. I'm super low on him and am not confident he pans out, but his upside is far too high to just throw away for a marginal return. Trading him for Chisholm wouldn't be that, but I'd be pretty unhappy with any sort of notable additions on top of Davis for Chisholm.
Ugene Magic
EVIL LAUGH
A bat that makes sense is Vlad Guerrero Jr. from the Jay's.
Worth the price to get, but these are the Nutting Bucs.
Worth the price to get, but these are the Nutting Bucs.
