OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Dull days of July

[ImporterExporter]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1833889615612125383

Not surprised in the least. Wish I could be upset, but I fully expect a compromised franchise to make compromised decisions.

 

[Empoleon8771]

https://www.mlb.com/news/top-organizations-based-on-pitching-talent-2024

Pirates ranked as the #1 prospect pool in terms of pitchers. It’s kinda crazy that they graduated 2 aces and still have the best pitching prospect pool.

Now it’s just their hitting prospect pool that needs to be fixed, since I bet it’s probably pretty close to last.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Of course Shelton is right "for this team"

Since this team isn't supposed to be a contender on purpose

 

[TooManyHumans]

Man the Marlins' infield is bad at fielding.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Lower minor leaguer to keep an eye on is SP, Carlson Reed. Probably a big riser heading into the offseason he's absolutely dominating A+ ball, which is a notoriously hitter friendly league. And the year overall has been very impressive, especially looking at BAA and only giving up 5 homers all year (108 innings).

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1833889615612125383

Of course Shelton is right "for this team"

Since this team isn't supposed to be a contender on purpose

Pirates 2025;

 

[WickedWrister]

Damn, single in the 7th to breakup the no no for Falter

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Was Bednar nominated for the Clemente Award because he gives away so many games?

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Was Bednar nominated for the Clemente Award because he gives away so many games?

If ifk could actually play ss they would be out of the inning

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

If ifk could actually play ss they would be out of the inning

That's another Shelton issue.

Raise it before Bednar walks it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This recent winning streak just reinforces a thought I have: this team is on pace to be completely fine in terms of W/L record (on pace to finish 78-82 now) but the vibes with this team are just not good. I honestly kinda don't understand it.

People rightfully grill Shelton for being a bad manager and Cherington for doing a bad job with the rebuild, along with numerous other issues with both the coaching, scouting and players. Despite all of that, they're still a totally fine team. But this team doesn't feel like a totally fine team.

 

[WickedWrister]

Raise it!

Marlins are terrible lol, first time in Pirates history we've had a 7 game sweep they said?

Surprised we don't have the longest no-hit drought (27 years), Cleveland hasn't had one since 1981. If we don't get one out of Skenes, I'll be disappointed.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

That's another Shelton issue.

Raise it before Bednar walks it.

They don’t have another SS unless they play Williams. Yorke and Pergo have been splitting ss in Indy

 

[MrBrightside]

This recent winning streak just reinforces a thought I have: this team is on pace to be completely fine in terms of W/L record (on pace to finish 78-82 now) but the vibes with this team are just not good. I honestly kinda don't understand it.

People rightfully grill Shelton for being a bad manager and Cherington for doing a bad job with the rebuild, along with numerous other issues with both the coaching, scouting and players. Despite all of that, they're still a totally fine team. But this team doesn't feel like a totally fine team.

Because losing 84 or 85 games isn't really totally fine.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

They don’t have another SS unless they play Williams. Yorke and Pergo have been splitting ss in Indy

They should have kept Cruz at SS and worried about switching him to CF in the offseason, or not at all.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Because losing 84 or 85 games isn't really totally fine.

What indication has this team given that they're any better than that?

Cherington's rebuild has stunk because this team does seem like it only has an 85 win upside or so, but this team hovering around .500 is about where everyone expected this team to be.

They should have kept Cruz at SS and worried about switching him to CF in the offseason, or not at all.

Nah Cruz has been a phenomenal defensive player in CF, moving him to CF is looking like a great decision.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Nah Cruz has been a phenomenal defensive player in CF, moving him to CF is looking like a great decision.

Has he?

I honestly don't know how he's looked.

 

[MrBrightside]

What indication has this team given that they're any better than that?

Cherington's rebuild has stunk because this team does seem like it only has an 85 win upside or so, but this team hovering around .500 is about where everyone expected this team to be.



Nah Cruz has been a phenomenal defensive player in CF, moving him to CF is looking like a great decision.

Well, they won 76 games in 2023 with no Cruz, Skenes, or Jones, so how anyone would think winning 76 or 77 is "perfectly fine" is something I don't understand. Not trying to be a dick. I just don't get the premise.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Has he?

I honestly don't know how he's looked.

His defensive metrics are excellent, it's a small sample size but his results are on pace to be one of the best defensive CFers in baseball if he'd maintain it.

I doubt he would, but I'm pretty confident that Cruz is at least a solid to good CFer defensively.

Well, they won 76 games in 2023 with no Cruz, Skenes, or Jones, so how anyone would think winning 76 or 77 is "perfectly fine" is something I don't understand. Not trying to be a dick. I just don't get the premise.

The record is "perfectly fine" as in "not terrible", and "not terrible" is pretty much the only upside this team has.

My point is that I don't think this team is good enough to be much better than what they are now, but the vibes are still shit with this team for some reason. It's not "they're doing great", it's "my expectations are low and they're not that far below them".

 

[Factorial]

Has he?

I honestly don't know how he's looked.

Yes, he's looked good. Should be able to cover a huge area with his speed.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think all in all, it's a disappointing year. Hayes, Davis, Suwinski, and Bednar were all extremely bad and ruined the team. They also got 2 RFs, both of which sucked. Hayes especially should never play baseball for the Pirates again.

Joe and Tellez were a collective mess but holistically the 1b position wasn't terrible.

The things that broke positively are Skenes exceeding all expectations and Bart. Maybe Gonzales if we are being charitable. It doesn't outweigh the first paragraph.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think all in all, it's a disappointing year. Hayes, Davis, Suwinski, and Bednar were all extremely bad and ruined the team. They also got 2 RFs, both of which sucked. Hayes especially should never play baseball for the Pirates again.

Joe and Tellez were a collective mess but holistically the 1b position wasn't terrible.

The things that broke positively are Skenes exceeding all expectations and Bart. Maybe Gonzales if we are being charitable. It doesn't outweigh the first paragraph.

Yeah I'm not saying it's not a disappointing year, I definitely think it was. It just feels weird to me to say "I'm disappointed in them" when I don't really think this team was going to do much better. It's not a "their performance was acceptable" idea, it's a "I wasn't expecting much more out of them" idea.

Like if Hayes, Suwinski and Bednar were all good this year, how much better would the Pirates actually be? Even by WAR metrics, you're only adding likely around 6 wins by flipping them from their bad form to their good form.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Were 10 games out of the last wc so the 6 games would have helped. They be 76-70 instead of 70-76

 

[ChaosAgent]

Yeah I'm not saying it's not a disappointing year, I definitely think it was. It just feels weird to me to say "I'm disappointed in them" when I don't really think this team was going to do much better. It's not a "their performance was acceptable" idea, it's a "I wasn't expecting much more out of them" idea.

Like if Hayes, Suwinski and Bednar were all good this year, how much better would the Pirates actually be? Even by WAR metrics, you're only adding likely around 6 wins by flipping them from their bad form to their good form.

I dunno on Bednar. Does WAR account for leverage? The issue with Bednar is his performances directly lead to losses. While of course closers will blow a few games, I think a Bednar in 2021-2023 form nets us 3-4 more wins.

Hayes is more of a straightforward calculation, 4 wins gone. He is either damaged goods, unable to deal with pain or just bad. Maybe all 3. Priority one this offseason should be moving him.

We can add Ortiz to the "good" column.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I dunno on Bednar. Does WAR account for leverage? The issue with Bednar is his performances directly lead to losses. While of course closers will blow a few games, I think a Bednar in 2021-2023 form nets us 3-4 more wins.

Hayes is more of a straightforward calculation, 4 wins gone. He is either damaged goods, unable to deal with pain or just bad. Maybe all 3. Priority one this offseason should be moving him.

We can add Ortiz to the "good" column.

I think your number of 3-4 more wins from Bednar is pretty close, but I'd probably say 2-3 wins rather than 3-4. Bednar has been atrocious this year, but I'd argue he has only individually lost them 4 games with bad performances:

-8/28: 5 runs against in the 9th to lose 14-10 to the Cubs
-8/11: 2 runs against in the 10th to lose 6-5 against the Dodgers
-8/8: 3 runs against in the 9th to lose 7-6 against the Padres
-4/9: 4 runs against in the 9th to lose 5-3 against the Tigers

For comparison, Bednar had 2 games in 2023 that would be similar to those 4 games (2 runs against in the 10th to lose 3-2 to the Diamondbacks and 3 runs against in the 9th to lose 8-6 to the Braves).

I think Suwinski, Bednar and Hayes would both add about 2 wins each, which is where that 6 win guestimate would come from. Despite Bednar's horrid performances, a lot of these bad performances just happen in games that are already decided one way or the other.