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OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Congrats to the Houston Cheaters on their win

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Empoleon8771 said:
Yeah I just saw that Davis was ranked #41 by BA before the season started, which makes him falling that much even more nonsensical.

Davis has played in 41 games this year, with him killing the ball in A+ (1.035 OPS in 22 games) and struggling to adjust to AA (.675 OPS in 17 games). Why is that enough to drop him 40 spots?
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And most of those AA at bats came with a bum wrist. But as far as I'm concerned - Davis doesn't have the basic mobility necessary to play Catcher, so I see their point a bit.
 
DocEmrickSkitters said:
Because A+ stats don't matter for him, and he has no remaining projection at the catcher position?
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So 17 games of AA ball with an injured wrist outweighs how much he was destroying A+ and lower?

There's no justification for Davis dropping that much with such a small sample size of games. They don't know any more about him as a prospect now than what they did before the season due to how much time he has missed due to injuries.
 
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Rodriguez being omitted by all the major pubs in terms of a top 5 guys for us/top 100 in the game, is pretty puzzling if you look at what he's done literally his entire ML career.

1. Johnson (Devers upside)
2. Davis (doesn't seem like he'll catch which drops his value some. still, huge power upside.)
3. Rodriguez (if the pop continues through the higher ranks, he jumps Davis because he can play all over)
4. Priester (best case he's a 2 IMO, but more likely a 3/4, either way we need quality P. Still only 21 and pitching well in AA. He's ahead of the curve age wise.)
5. Gonzales (still a big believer in him. catching fire almost immediately after being out 2 months. great work ethic and lightning hands.)
6. Chandler (raw but obviously very, very talented. not completely over matched as a hitter and showing some big time raw stuff. command will dictate how far he makes it as a P)
7. Solometo (definitely more refined at this stage than Chandler. he's the 7th Pirate I'd put in the top 100, given he doesn't turn 20 until Dec and is showing out very well in full season ball)

I'd put those 7 in the top 100. Peguero drops outside because of the really meh season he's had offensively, while continuing to show inconsistencies in the field.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
So 17 games of AA ball with an injured wrist outweighs how much he was destroying A+ and lower?

There's no justification for Davis dropping that much with such a small sample size of games. They don't know any more about him as a prospect now than what they did before the season due to how much time he has missed due to injuries.
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We pretty much know he won't be a catcher, and that carried a lot of value for him.

If Cruz had no chance of sticking at short, it would devalue him. Same with Davis at C.

And his A+ stats don't matter at all. Arguably his AA stats don't matter either. But let's just say same prospect but can't catch. He should be downgraded.

Plus he plays in terrible facilities ruining his development ;)
 
National guys rarely, if ever, have as good a read on whole organizations as the "locals". Getting some attention from them is good but not the end of the world if they overlook some guys or have weird standards.
 
Just remembered another bit from Shelton interview. On Henry Davis not being a catcher long term, perhaps a 1b. Shelton said no, "there are no plans for him to be anything but catcher." He seemed surprised it was even a question, as he laughed it off.

But did praise Endy for being versatile, and said they were glad he could play multiple positions.

So make of that what you will.
 
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Endy 2-2 tonight. Continues to absolutely tear the cover off the ball. How he is not in any pub top 5 Pirates prospects is flat out absurd.

He's a top 100 guy. This year and overall body of work is very strong.
 
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The one thing that seems kind of weird to me about Endy continuing to be a utility player is that it's unclear if also playing catcher is advantageous. To just make the big assumption that he keeps on hitting his way into an everyday role, that's pretty great, but do you roll with an everyday utility player as your 1B catcher? I suppose it's possible, in that if Endy or the 1A catcher (whoever, eventually Davis maybe, etc.) does get hurt in a game, then you go to the immediate call-up from AAA as you normally would, but it just seems kind of unique. I have very little read on him at catcher, so it's just a thought.

I wonder if that, along with Davis, is essentially banking on the automatic strike zone to be implemented at some point. That wouldn't necessarily take away from the physical strain of the position, but it would enable you to use guys who are athletic there and can make the plays. It seems to me that Davis' major carrying tool besides the offensive game is his arm.

More substantively, I'm definitely high on Endy from what I've seen of him this year. He looks to have a great approach at the plate and a really intriguing profile.
 
Extending Reynolds is another caveat I'll need to come back next year. Shelton, Haines fired. Reynolds resigned. That guy cares and was clearly irked at Eck's comments (even if Eck was spot on) and has responded.

Zero interest in extending Cruz. He's got some major things to sort out offensively. We know what we have in Reynolds and he's still 27. He's the guy you build around IMO. That would show me there is some movement in the right direction. Couple it w/actually bringing in a respected manager, and I'll buy in for 2023.
 
ImporterExporter said:
Extending Reynolds is another caveat I'll need to come back next year. Shelton, Haines fired. Reynolds resigned. That guy cares and was clearly irked at Eck's comments (even if Eck was spot on) and has responded.

Zero interest in extending Cruz. He's got some major things to sort out offensively. We know what we have in Reynolds and he's still 27. He's the guy you build around IMO. That would show me there is some movement in the right direction. Couple it w/actually bringing in a respected manager, and I'll buy in for 2023.
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All these caveats and conditions to your support and you still manage to be so dismissive of anyone who doesn't share your "optimism."

Something something state of society
 
Endy with a great throw to gun down the go-ahead runner in the 9th. I can't really tell much in terms of framing for the minor league guys, but he certainly looks comfortable defensively.
 
Yeah I've pretty much fully grown against extending Cruz at this point. There's just too much risk there for me to gamble with that. I have said in the past that I don't care about how he does at the plate as long as he can field the position, but his fielding at SS has fallen off a bit and he's striking out even more now.

Give Reynolds the money right now because he's the face of the franchise and their best player. Don't pay Cruz until he shows he's worth the investment at the MLB level. If the Braves can get Harris for $9 million a year while he's in line to accrue a year of service due to winning ROY, the Pirates should be able to do that or less for Cruz.
 
DocEmrickSkitters said:
We pretty much know he won't be a catcher, and that carried a lot of value for him.

If Cruz had no chance of sticking at short, it would devalue him. Same with Davis at C.

And his A+ stats don't matter at all. Arguably his AA stats don't matter either. But let's just say same prospect but can't catch. He should be downgraded.

Plus he plays in terrible facilities ruining his development ;)
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His projection as a catcher was based on a rocket arm and a future where we have robot umpires.

The value is the bat and the intangibles. I’m not really worried about Davis. He’s probably a 5 or 6 hitter in a decent lineup.
 
sovietsanta87 said:
His projection as a catcher was based on a rocket arm and a future where we have robot umpires.

The value is the bat and the intangibles. I’m not really worried about Davis. He’s probably a 5 or 6 hitter in a decent lineup.
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Even without framing you've gotta crouch, set targets and block balls in the dirt.

I'm excited about Davis' bat but it's fair to downgrade him. Personally I'd take Johnson pretty easily at this juncture, even among our own system. Though Termarr Johnson will have to navigate the house of horrors that is the facilities in Bradenton. Poor soul.
 
DocEmrickSkitters said:
Even without framing you've gotta crouch, set targets and block balls in the dirt.

I'm excited about Davis' bat but it's fair to downgrade him. Personally I'd take Johnson pretty easily at this juncture, even among our own system. Though Termarr Johnson will have to navigate the house of horrors that is the facilities in Bradenton. Poor soul.
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Haha. Well I agree that Johnson has the higher future value. But Davis’s issue was receiving and framing. Not blocking and holding the glove in the zone. Davis has always been a high floor prospect with a lower ceiling than Lawler and Mayer. Hopefully the “leadership” qualities provide tangible outcomes. We 100% took Davis due to safety and sign ability because Covid wiped out reliable scouting. Hence why we need solemento, white and/or bubba to blossom.
 
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I'd love to hear from Pipeline/BA and others as to why this kid is not a top 5 Bucco or top 100 player. He hits, for average and pop, has done it 2 years running. He's 22, not overage. Plays 4 positions legitimately. Splits are very strong.



 
My only guess on Rodriguez is that most pubs are relatively conservative in terms of re-ranking midseason. He's certainly not skipped a beat with the AA promotion.

Burrows with a solid clean sheet in AAA tonight. Just 5 innings, but I think that's partly due to his pitch count/innings being watched. He didn't look like he was tiring or anything like that, and was easily dialed in for a 6IP start. Stuff looked very sharp, best I've seen since his promotion, though I haven't watched him closely.
 
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