GDT: RAGNARÖKR CLAN SKOGVAKTARE @ CLAN STORMNING AKA GAME 7 NEW YORK RANGERS @ CAROLINA HURRICANES

[Svechhammer]

I’ve always been more hesitant than most in my praise of TT so I haven’t wanted to shout it out too loudly as I figured I’d get torn up about it for being “against” him. I’m not.

He’s maybe the best choice for change. Aho plays well with others, and the two of them feed off each other to create that pass first mentality. Aho plays more direct when he moves away from him, though you can’t deny the chemistry.

He’s on a good contract, he’s still in his prime. He could be swapped out for someone who plays more in straight lines with a shoot first mentality. Or another top three defenseman.

Turbo might be the best passer we have on the team. But when everyone else has upper level passing skill, I'm not sure this is the best fit for the team right now. Aho really desperately needs a shooter on his line. He opens up a lot of space for his linemates and there's a reason that Jarvis collected points this year. You stick an elite sniper on his line and it could take the top off our attack and give us an elite 1st line that causes legitimate problems for a playoff series in the same regards that the Perfection Line f***ed us in Boston.

The problem is, we're not going to trade Svech, there's no way we're trading Jarvis, Necas' value is in the absolute shitter, and there really aren't any other options on the roster that could be the centerpiece of a big trade. As you said, he's probably the best and potentially the only choice for us to dangle in that kind of deal.

And given the issues that we have offensively, I'll be really pissed off if our biggest moves this offseason are on defense. I don't care how good the defense and goaltending is, we can't win if we can't score, and our issues with scoring cannot be more glaring than it is right now.

 

[Chrispy]

Yeah I very much don't like his tendency to just vanish and give half hearted efforts. Reminds me way too much of Semin, and we all remember how that ended.

I almost think that the solution here might be a little more drastic than we are currently thinking. I'm talking a package that sends a pick, prospect and current roster player out in order to bring an elite player back. To the extent of something like a 1st rounder, Turbo, and maybe someone like Morrow for an elite player in his prime that can take Turbo's spot in the lineup. I have no idea who that could be, and its a huge price to pay, but I genuinely wonder how we'd get the kind of player we need without going big like that.

How do they get a player like that without going big?
1) UFA. There are a few elite players out there, a couple of them in their prime and 2 that are still elite post-prime (Malkin, Giroux.)

2) Rental. Kane for instance would be expensive, but I don't think he would be THAT expensive. The trade board proposal (Jarvis, Drury, 1st) is an obvious pass. I wouldn't make such a move centered around Necas either, but if some are willing to move on from Necas maybe he could be the centerpiece of such a deal?

 

[chaz4hockey]

The scapegoating has begun.


This ain’t on TDA. One of the few guys with backbone on the team and his “antics” affected nothing other than showing he’s about the only one with passion which probably was a sad realization for him.

I think agendas still come out with re: to 77.

I really liked his regular season play and was in favor of a re-sign.

However, I was very disappointed with play in the Ranger series. Game 7 in particular he played bad and unfortunately showed nerves in mishandling pucks in the first. It’s ok to be emotional at times but in game 6 & 7’s you have to be composed.

Noting that, Skjei was the bigger disappointment to me in games 6&7 in giving up key goals by losing his man, being out of position and not making the effort required to block shots (his turning to side versus laying prone led to two key goals against….Jarvis showed more guts than him).

So….defense is a big off season question mark and I would prefer that it be improved for next year (Slavin is my only keeper in the bunch…rest are tradeable for right guys). Up to the Borg to figure out.

 

[TomppaKoo]

Absolutely. We don't have anyone on this team willing to go for the kill. They're all looking to be the guy who sets up the perfect play, and nobody is willing to just rip it when a decent chance is there because they're all convinced if they just make one more pass it'll be a better chance. Its infuriating how often you see someone get the puck with the shooting lane open and they hesitate for that extra second in hopes of the pass opening up, which allows the defense to establish shot blocking position and the goalie to square up.

We need a goddamn shooter on this roster, ideally 2. Svech or Jarvis really should be one, and there's a decent chance we can possibly rely on that in the future, but we absolutely need another. And really, it needs to be a 1st line talent sniper who isn't afraid to take their shot. And I don't mean a puck hog like Necas has become, but someone who will just rip one timers all night long from the circle on the PP and not missing the net on 75% of the shots. Or a guy who isn't overthinking everything he does on the fast break. A guy that the entire opposing defense knows they have to cheat against his shot when we have a PP, which in turn opens up space for the rest of the team.

We are so passive in the offensive zone in the playoffs that it is absolutely our single biggest problem in the postseason over the past few years. And I really do not think the answer to this problem is currently in the organization. And until that is fixed, this kind of shit we saw this week and the ways we've flamed out over the past few years is our ceiling.

Actually, Turbo was the best shooter in latest games and while Turbo is a good shooter - if you want to go all the way - you need more. Jarvis got some scrappy goals, but Svech needs to grow up to his potential/expectations. Offensively. He has not done that yet. Aho is what he is. A very good, skilled player, but too small to be a super star in today's NHL. Even being the top scorer in Canes with Turbo and Tro and and TDA. I don't fully understand the critisism towards TDA. Without him the PP is garbage.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Actually, Turbo was the best shooter in latest games and while Turbo is a good shooter - if you want to go all the way - you need more. Jarvis got some scrappy goals, but Svech needs to grow up to his potential/expectations. Offensively. He has not done that yet. Aho is what he is. A very good, skilled player, but too small to be a super star in today's NHL. Even being the top scorer in Canes with Turbo and Tro and and TDA. I don't fully understand the critisism towards TDA. Without him the PP is garbage.

…With him, the PP was garbage, so I’m not sure that’s an argument we should be making.

 

[TomppaKoo]

…With him, the PP was garbage, so I’m not sure that’s an argument we should be making.

He was top scoring Dman in Canes? Not?

 

[chaz4hockey]

…With him, the PP was garbage, so I’m not sure that’s an argument we should be making.

True but he was our only mobile Dman that could work the point. Rest are not PP worthy. We need snipers (at least someone who can one-time and another mobile defenseman to run 2nd unit (or move TDA to 2nd unit). As I noted above, TDA is not a sure re sign for me but I don’t totally blame PP issues on him.

 

[Drivebytrucker]

You're drunk. Players like Aho don't grow on trees. Any team would be lucky to have him. TDA - not so much.

I'm talking about who I'll root for. Show me some emotion.

Aho is a better player no doubt.

Man the anti TDA crowd is harsh. If he had one this series with a game 7 goal, nobody cares about his antics just like noboody gets mad discussing Scotty Walker suckered punching Aaron Ward because he was the series hero.


TDA is a player. He's fun to watch and he's a huge part of this team. You should get used to him being here ..

 

[TomppaKoo]

True but he was our only mobile Dman that could work the point. Rest are not PP worthy. We need snipers (at least someone who can one-time and another mobile defenseman to run 2nd unit (or move TDA to 2nd unit). As I noted above, TDA is not a sure re sign for me but I don’t totally blame PP issues on him.

Exactly this. TDA was only Dman able to skate with puck, have head up for opening for a pass and be able to make it when opportunity arises. And take the occasional shot, if passing lanes were closed.

 

[ndp]

TDA is a mouthy, hot headed, less smart version of JML. He reminds me of Cam Newton, all the God given talent in the world but dumb as a sack of hammers. Because he made it all the way through lower leagues and dominated on that natural talent, either no one ever taught him or he's incapable of using the muscle between his ears. It's why he gets caught chasing the puck so much.

Everybody likes to talk about Slavins highlight reel defensive plays, his ability to break up the two on one and stuff like that. But he wouldn't have to be making those types of plays every game if his partner wasn't caught deep in the zone every third or fourth shift. TDA would make a great bottom pair PP specialist on a true contender, or a decent second pair option with a stud defensive partner. And as much as I dislike the guy, he's not the reason we lost this series, he didn't help but ultimately he's not the core reason. I put a lot of that blame with the coaching staff. There are lots of things I think should have been done differently, Stepan should have drawn in, Bear should have at least gotten a game or two on the road if nothing else but to rest Smith or Cole, Pyotr should have gotten at least one away start.

 

[spockBokk]

I’d see what it would take to get Vince Dunn out of Seattle and then hopefully sign a Josh Manson-type that could play with Slavin.

Slavin-UFA RD/Trade RD
Dunn-Pesce
Skjei-TDA

That gives you 2 PP guys and and the option to mix/match the D pairs. I’d prefer Chychrun overall, but that is likely a pipe dream unless the Coyotes really like Necas.

I’d also see what guys like Kubalik or Hoffman would cost. Both of them have good shots. I’d park either at the right circle of a PP unit and make other teams fear the offside one-timer. I’d like a Forsberg or Laine, but doubt that happens.

I’d also not be shocked if they did end up finally acquiring Kasperi Kapanen.

 

[Chrispy]

It seems like Montreal will try to unload Hoffman this off-season. 2 more years at $4.5M cap hit.

I could see Carolina sending a pick and Gardiner to Montreal for Hoffman. Additional LTIR won't hurt Montreal and it gets Carolina out of the LTIR situation and adds a PP specialist shooter.

 

[Drivebytrucker]

So much talk about TDA being as dumb as a bunch of hammers. Yet Svech one handed swinging his stick at a Ranger with no chance of getting the puck and getting his stick caught in his skate.

He does this all the time and it's just ridiculous.

Rod never had to correct this kinda thing or get serious about it because they were killing 90% of the penalties.

Canes stick positioning and carelessness with their sticks is horrendous

 

[Chrispy]

So much talk about TDA being as dumb as a bunch of hammers. Yet Svech one handed swinging his stick at a Ranger with no chance of getting the puck and getting his stick caught in his skate.

He does this all the time and it's just ridiculous.

Rod never had to correct this kinda thing or get serious about it because they were killing 90% of the penalties.

Canes stick positioning and carelessness with their sticks is horrendous

This. I understood Aho's hook at the start of the game, even if he got beat to the spot and had to take it as a result. I even understood the too many men penalty; Rangers had a 2 on 1 if the man replacing Jarvis didn't get on quickly and they thought Jarvis would get back to the bench pretty quick. Take that chance to prevent a 2 on 1.

Svech's penalty was just careless as you said.

 

[LakeLivin]

The way you beat a hot PP is not going to the box. This is where “Rod the players coach” really fails as he buys into the narrative that it is the refs problem not the players problem when calls are made. Reducing penalties, especially the cheap crosschecks and other “temper” related ones, needs to be a priority in the off-season.

... sorry, I was thinking something else.

Penacillin? Or, limiting it to just hand stuff?

 

[CanesUltimate11]

I just think one timers are lower percentage shots, especially if the shooter isn’t very accurate ( our whole team). I think we would have been more successful to try and create a 2 vs 1, where there is a quick pass and quick tap into the net. Sounds so easy haha! Obviously more difficult than just firing away from the point I guess.

Yeah if they can work to those easy tap ins like Tamps was killing us with that would be ideal but I'm not sure that would have worked on the Rangers since they were content to pack it in and block shots and passes through the middle and let Igor handle anything else. One timers that don't get blocked at least force him to make a save or maybe give up a rebound or tip chance.

This. I understood Aho's hook at the start of the game, even if he got beat to the spot and had to take it as a result. I even understood the too many men penalty; Rangers had a 2 on 1 if the man replacing Jarvis didn't get on quickly and they thought Jarvis would get back to the bench pretty quick. Take that chance to prevent a 2 on 1.

Svech's penalty was just careless as you said.

The two many men was tough, I get the idea of taking a chance to deny the 2 on 1 but given that it was a two on one the refs aren't likely to give a team the benefit of the doubt since the penalty would help deny a scoring chance so you really have to time that well and Jarvis was no where near the bench when the skater jumped on.

 

[LakeLivin]

Watching MacKinnon and McDavid carry their team on their backs really juxtaposed how shitty our lottery pick player was playing.

That's a very unfair comparison, imo. McDavid is 25yo, MacKinnon 26, and Svech just turned 22. I could be wrong but I don't recall either of the M(a)c's carrying their team on their backs at the same age. Yeah, Svech needs to up his game to live up to his potential (and it will never likely be quite at the McDavid/ MacKinnon level), but I'd hate for us to forget the lesson we should have learned from Elias Lindholm when it comes to expectations.

 

[Embryo]

Hold your heads high, Canes fans, you pushed us to the limit and a Game 7 on the road, even with all your injuries, Raanta deserves so much respect, I loved him when he was backup for Hank, please respect and appreciate him. And Tony D did his best, he is so talented and has a great future. And so do the Canes, the rest of the decade its going to be Rangers, Canes, and maybe Montreal if they succesfully rebuild, idk, but the Rangers and Canes are def going to be at war for many years to come. PARTY IS JUST GETTING STARTED!

 

[LakeLivin]

The one thing I noticed about this team, and it’ll sound counter intuitive with how they out shoot everyone is the overpassing. Throughout the year it often happened that they would give quality chances up over and over looking for a perfect play. In the regular season it worked well enough but it showed a lack of selfishness or confidence that’s needed to score when everything tightens up. When the season was on the line this series (and last) we reverted to what we do the most….making another pass.

Jarvis doesn’t have it yet but Svech has been infected, and Necas never had any problem being that guy. Throw them in the TT and Aho and you have a scoring issue.

That’s the biggest thing I saw this year along with consistently taking penalties. Having your starter in the playoffs would also be nice. I know Raanta overall played well but you’d think having Anderson would’ve made a difference in this series. That’s the problem with blowing anything up. We might’ve been fine with Anderson.

TDA was fine. He’s a distributor. Like everyone else he passes and we loved him all year for it. He did it in this series too…..the forwards he gave it to did nothing with it.

One other thing that jumped out at me was that even when players would take the shot there was too often a delay. Instead of a quick one timer before the opposition could get set, players were first either evaluating whether to shoot or pass or settling the puck before the shot. Pesce in particular seemed guilty.

edit: didn't read far enough ahead, Svechhammer beat me to this point a bit ago.

 

[Svechhammer]

One other thing that jumped out at me was that even when players would take the shot there was too often a delay. Instead of a quick one timer before the opposition could get set, players were first either evaluating whether to shoot or pass or settling the puck before the shot. Pesce in particular seemed guilty.

edit: didn't read far enough ahead, Svechhammer beat me to this point a bit ago.

It really is frustrating to see, isn't it. When the PP was clicking earlier in the year they were not hesitating on passes or shots. It was automatic. By the end of the year, it was as if they had no idea what to do with the puck and had no idea where their teammates were positioned. Everything was forced, deliberate, and telegraphed.

They were slow and predictable on the PP in the playoffs. Don't care who you have on a team, if you're slow and predictable with your attack in any sport, you're going to struggle. Even Ovi would struggle to score on our PP.

 

[moses malone 12]

True but he was our only mobile Dman that could work the point. Rest are not PP worthy. We need snipers (at least someone who can one-time and another mobile defenseman to run 2nd unit (or move TDA to 2nd unit). As I noted above, TDA is not a sure re sign for me but I don’t totally blame PP issues on him.

PP was poorly engineered against Rangers. they were very disciplined in their defensive box and clogged the shooting and passing zones. key was for the Canes puck handler to get PKers to move and chase him like we did on our PK without any success. Special teams decided the series and Carolina was not up to the task. This is on the coaching staff, not the players.

 

[Lempo]

@saraciv420 how's Jarvy? Does he need anything? Blood, organs?

 

[chaz4hockey]

Based on the coverage, it sounds like Staal was the one most devastated and tearful about it. Most of the other commentary was a repeat of what follows most losses.

Older guys (like me) take annual losses much harder given one's uncertain future. Staal realizes he is closer to the finish line and knows that this year's team was a possibility to get to the finish line. Plus, as C, I'm sure he feels that he let the team down.

 

[hblueridgegal]

Looks we could be losing Sara to the Wings? That’ll stink but happy for her if so as she’s discussed her love for the city.

 

[surfzone365]

see this is where I disagree.

2019 we exceeded expectations big time. We got to the playoffs a year ahead of schedule and then over-achieved in the first series riding that to the conference finals where we got roflstomped.

2020 we won the play-in serieis. We should have been expected to. Reality hit the next round getting the Bruins again.

2021 we exceeded in the regular season a bit, but winning a round before getting bounced by Tampa was realistic.

this year we under-achieved. Elite regular season team, but the expectation was at minimum Conference Finals. Credit due to the Rangers goalie, but this was a team that not being one of the last 4 standing was unacceptable as a final result.

Management needs to take a hard f***ing look in the mirror and then figure out how to make us tougher to play against next season especially when we run into situations where other teams are taking liberties with our other players. Trouba should have been eating his teeth the rest of the series after the hit on Domi, and yet we had absolutely no f***ing physical response all series. The Rangers looked at their situation after getting clowned by the Caps late last season and made themselves a more difficult team to play against, and backed by all-world goaltending it paid off for them. We haven't made ourselves any tougher since the first series loss to Boston... if anything this team has gotten softer.

Which in another post is why I hinted (in perhaps different words) we regressed a step or two back to Bill Peters era hockey.