Race to the bottom - Rebuild thread #2.

[FlareKnight]

What sucks is that it's not a race to the bottom. The rest of the conference sucks so bad that it will probably take us a month or so to actually slip out of a playoff spot.

 

[DaveT83*]

What sucks is that it's not a race to the bottom. The rest of the conference sucks so bad that it will probably take us a month or so to actually slip out of a playoff spot.

I have faith in this team. They can finish bottom 5.

 

[AINEC*]

....still in a playoff spot

Which is pretty embarrassing for the East. Toronto and Carolina should not be playoff teams.

 

[FlareKnight]

I have faith in this team. They can finish bottom 5.

Not sure I have that much faith. Mediocre is this team's specialty. Finishing like the 10th pick seems more likely.

 

[TMLegend]

When people say completely rebuild, is there anyone you want to keep? This isn't 2008, there are some pieces this time. A rebuild may be necessary, but there are some good pieces to keep. Everyone has to at least love that JVR!

JVR is the only forward up front that I wouldn't entertain moving. Everyone else is fair game.

I'd keep Rielly and probably Gardiner as well, Bernier too. The rest of the team would be available if it was up to me.

 

[JackJ]

....still in a playoff spot

Rather not with this team.

 

[Judas Tavares]

JVR is the only forward up front that I wouldn't entertain moving. Everyone else is fair game.

I'd keep Rielly and probably Gardiner as well, Bernier too. The rest of the team would be available if it was up to me.

Fair, a guy like Kadri, I'd only want to entertain for an upgrade, not futures.

 

[Kelly]

Don't jump ship yet, we aren't even half way through December. All it takes is a 7-8 game hot stretch and we'll all be talking about how far we think this team can make it in the play offs.

Our team hasn't been AS bad as some of you are making it out to be... Our goalies have been great, but in fact they are apart of our team. Kessel/JVR have been dynamite.. Kadri hasn't really regressed as much as HF has been telling us, he needs to cut some of the fancy stuff but he will learn with experience. Phaneuf is having his career year as a leaf.. Gunnar has been great this year as well in my opinion.. We have had some bright spots, I know its hard too see as dim as these past couple weeks have been.

I still have faith in this team, and with a healthy line-up for the playoffs, we could make a deep run. **** rebuilding, look at Edmonton who drafted 1st O/A three years in a row, top picks don't win you playoffs games, experience does.

Happy thoughts, gentlemen.

 

[Faltorvo]

When people say completely rebuild, is there anyone you want to keep? This isn't 2008, there are some pieces this time. A rebuild may be necessary, but there are some good pieces to keep. Everyone has to at least love that JVR!

For me, the first place to start is at the TD, anyone and I mean ANYONE that is UFA come TD gets shipped out for picks/prospects.

Someone like Franson who seems to be a contract hassler, OUT for picks/prospects.

That would be a start.

 

[rdawg1234]

Wtf is this thread.
Rebuild? wtf.
When's the last time you've seen a team like this throw away all this youth and just restart.
we're way too good for say a top 5 pick, especially when healthy, even then this isn't the NBA, that player may be 2-3 years from helping us.

Trade for a top 4 d-man first, then try to find a better centre in the off-season, bam the two major holes are filled. I know I know easier said then done, but drafting talent like this(I.e top 5-10 pick) isn't happening with this team for a while. Period.

 

[Faltorvo]

Don't jump ship yet, we aren't even half way through December. All it takes is a 7-8 game hot stretch and we'll all be talking about how far we think this team can make it in the play offs.

Our team hasn't been AS bad as some of you are making it out to be... Our goalies have been great, but in fact they are apart of our team. Kessel/JVR have been dynamite.. Kadri hasn't really regressed as much as HF has been telling us, he needs to cut some of the fancy stuff but he will learn with experience. Phaneuf is having his career year as a leaf.. Gunnar has been great this year as well in my opinion.. We have had some bright spots, I know its hard too see as dim as these past couple weeks have been.

I still have faith in this team, and with a healthy line-up for the playoffs, we could make a deep run. **** rebuilding, look at Edmonton who drafted 1st O/A three years in a row, top picks don't win you playoffs games, experience does.

Happy thoughts, gentlemen.

HA! we sit 5 points from drafting 6th overall in the league.

Keep your blinders on.

 

[TMLegend]

Wtf is this thread.
Rebuild? wtf.
When's the last time you've seen a team like this throw away all this youth and just restart.
we're way too good for say a top 5 pick, especially when healthy, even then this isn't the NBA, that player may be 2-3 years from helping us.

Trade for a top 4 d-man first, then try to find a better centre in the off-season, bam the two major holes are filled. I know I know easier said then done, but drafting talent like this(I.e top 5-10 pick) isn't happening with this team for a while. Period.

What youth? All the best players on this team are entering their primes or in their primes. There really isn't much room for this core to grow.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

We've got some nice pieces of a core that can be here for the next 5+ years in Phaneuf (if he extends), Kessel, JVR, Kadri, Rielly, Bernier but everyone else should be considered moveable.

We're realistically not a contender for two seasons with the number of holes we have. If Phaneuf doesn't extend it's extended at least another year.

We need to get good assets for some of our win now players and turn them into win 2+ years or so from now.

This means dealing guys like Lupul, Raymond, McClement who have value but are in the mid to late stages of their primes but will decline over the next few years.

This team won't get better (and maintain it) until we take a step back to reload on assets.

 

[Faltorvo]

Wtf is this thread.
Rebuild? wtf.
When's the last time you've seen a team like this throw away all this youth and just restart.
we're way too good for say a top 5 pick, especially when healthy, even then this isn't the NBA, that player may be 2-3 years from helping us.

Trade for a top 4 d-man first, then try to find a better centre in the off-season, bam the two major holes are filled. I know I know easier said then done, but drafting talent like this(I.e top 5-10 pick) isn't happening with this team for a while. Period.

5 points from drafting 6th overall, right now, wake up. Period.

 

[Stephen]

The Leafs need to ask themselves some tough questions:

Can they win the hard and heavy way the coach seems to think is the only way if their top six is built to play a speedy offensive game?

Do they feel comfortable with Kessel as THE go to guy when matched up with all the battleship forwards leading the better teams in the league, as well as the identity of the team?

If not, can they get a guy who can slot ahead of Kessel, or even more difficult, does Kessel have to go?

Can they have three mid sized centers in Kadri, Bozak, Bolland up the middle?

 

[Judas Tavares]

Keep for sure

Kessel
JVR
Kadri
Rielly
One of the goalies

Maybes

Phaneuf-Can they get a good deal with him?
Gardiner-I'd keep him but he might be trade bait
Bolland-Would like to see this guy retire here, can he be afforded?
Lupul-Would love him as captain but would love him to stay in the lineup too, trade bait

The rest can go (not including prospects)

 

[blueberrie]

A bit early I think, getting into the new year will give us a much clearer picture of what direction this team is heading. Even if it's not a full rebuild we need to get some picks for some of our upcoming FA's at the deadline.

If it is a full rebuild, my untouchables is JVR, Kadri, Rielly, Gardiner, Reimer & Bernier. Not a bad base to start with.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Don't jump ship yet, we aren't even half way through December. All it takes is a 7-8 game hot stretch and we'll all be talking about how far we think this team can make it in the play offs.

Our team hasn't been AS bad as some of you are making it out to be... Our goalies have been great, but in fact they are apart of our team. Kessel/JVR have been dynamite.. Kadri hasn't really regressed as much as HF has been telling us, he needs to cut some of the fancy stuff but he will learn with experience. Phaneuf is having his career year as a leaf.. Gunnar has been great this year as well in my opinion.. We have had some bright spots, I know its hard too see as dim as these past couple weeks have been.

I still have faith in this team, and with a healthy line-up for the playoffs, we could make a deep run. **** rebuilding, look at Edmonton who drafted 1st O/A three years in a row, top picks don't win you playoffs games, experience does.

Happy thoughts, gentlemen.

It is a myth of needing loads of playoff experience as a team. A couple vets like Richards, Hossa, Brindamour Anderchuck, sure but a player like this can always be brought in.

Chicago missed the playoffs for years made it 1 year, won it the next year. Tampa same.

LA bounced two years in a row in the first round. Than won the cup.

Carolina won the cup coming out of the first lockout with having missed the playoff for years prior.

 

[number72]

Looking at the leafs shot differential like Fenwick close, the leafs are terrible hockey team. Pretty much any maple leafs is below average player measured by corsi so those advanced stats folks have a great point that the leafs winning ways are not sustainable and this team needs to be torn down. Now is the perfect time to start the rebuild and tank for better players.

 

[Kelly]

HA! we sit 5 points from drafting 6th overall in the league.

Keep your blinders on.

It's December, a lot can change in a month or three...

Step away from the bridge.

 

[Bomber0104]

It is a myth of needing loads of playoff experience as a team. A couple vets like Richards, Hossa, Brindamour Anderchuck, sure but a player like this can always be brought in.

Chicago missed the playoffs for years made it 1 year, won it the next year. Tampa same.

LA bounced two years in a row in the first round. Than won the cup.

Carolina won the cup coming out of the first lockout with having missed the playoff for years prior.

Chicago.......Toews
LA.........Kopitar
Carolina....Staal

Toronto Maple Leafs.......Bozak?

This organization needs a reality check.

 

[Judas Tavares]

The Leafs need to ask themselves some tough questions:

Can they win the hard and heavy way the coach seems to think is the only way if their top six is built to play a speedy offensive game?

Do they feel comfortable with Kessel as THE go to guy when matched up with all the battleship forwards leading the better teams in the league, as well as the identity of the team?

If not, can they get a guy who can slot ahead of Kessel, or even more difficult, does Kessel have to go?

Can they have three mid sized centers in Kadri, Bozak, Bolland up the middle?

I think the rising cap helps with this. What I mean is, if he costs $8 million, we will have the capability of affording another $8 million dollar forward (hopefully a top centre) to build around, if the cap goes over $80 million. I don't have an issue with spending $16 million on our top two forwards.

 

[Faltorvo]

The Leafs need to ask themselves some tough questions:

Can they win the hard and heavy way the coach seems to think is the only way if their top six is built to play a speedy offensive game?

Do they feel comfortable with Kessel as THE go to guy when matched up with all the battleship forwards leading the better teams in the league, as well as the identity of the team?

If not, can they get a guy who can slot ahead of Kessel, or even more difficult, does Kessel have to go?

Can they have three mid sized centers in Kadri, Bozak, Bolland up the middle?

Too many "pretty boys"?

As for Kessel, well CHI rides high on Kane.

But man the amount of heart,size and skill behind Kane makes up for a lot.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Chicago.......Toews
LA.........Kopitar
Carolina....Staal

Toronto Maple Leafs.......Bozak?

This organization needs a reality check.

Klesla, Leclaire, Nash, Zherdev, Picard, Brule, Brassard, Voracek, Filatov

TANK TANK TANK!!!!

 

[rdawg1234]

What youth? All the best players on this team are entering their primes or in their primes. There really isn't much room for this core to grow.

Then you build around this core, not destroy it entirely.

This is the logic i'm getting from some of you, it's better to destroy this core and trade everyone away and hope we tank hard enough in the right years and get the perfect players(which look at edmonton, that really hasnt happend there).

Or we could try and trade(or get some from FA)for the two pieces were missing. Which is another top 4 d-man and a top centre.

I dont see a huge flaw in our wingers, JVR is a great compliment to Kessel, Kadri and Lupul make a great 2nd line and overall the depth there is fantastic. Up the middle we have a great but small 2nd, 3rd and 4th line C.

it's just the #1C that is really hurting us.