Prospect Info: Quinton Byfield (2nd Overall 2020 Draft) Discussion part II

[johnjm22]

I think they should send him down to Ontario. If the Kings make the playoffs, it's not like Todd is going to give him much TOI anyways.

If you can get a 3rd line center rental for cheap, do it. If not, then Kupari should probably be the 3rd line center with GV on his wing.

 

[bland]

Remember, this is still a 19 year old project whose lottery ticket upside is the rarest kind of player, a huge, agile #1 offensive center.

Nothing has changed since our myriad pre-draft threads. All of the things we discussed ad nauseum haven't changed. Byfield won't be a factor until his early 20s and he has grown into his body. He is still only really productive on the rush. His defensive commitment is still intermittent. These things are not a surprise.

The only thing that has changed are the goals of the team around him. They went from earning a #2 overall pick to contending for the playoffs. Nothing about Byfield's trajectory, strength or weaknesses has altered, just the team surrounding him has improved so that his growth is being measured to how it helps his team now as opposed to the organic maturation of a kid in a very bizarre period for prospect development.

Its just nothing to be concerned about, we knew what to expect.

 

[johnjm22]

Remember, this is still a 19 year old project whose lottery ticket upside is the rarest kind of player, a huge, agile #1 offensive center.

Nothing has changed since our myriad pre-draft threads. All of the things we discussed ad nauseum haven't changed. Byfield won't be a factor until his early 20s and he has grown into his body. He is still only really productive on the rush. His defensive commitment is still intermittent. These things are not a surprise.

The only thing that has changed are the goals of the team around him. They went from earning a #2 overall pick to contending for the playoffs. Nothing about Byfield's trajectory, strength or weaknesses has altered, just the team surrounding him has improved so that his growth is being measured to how it helps his team now as opposed to the organic maturation of a kid in a very bizarre period for prospect development.

Its just nothing to be concerned about, we knew what to expect.

I don't think it was expected that he would struggle this much.

 

[Herby]

I don't think it was expected that he would struggle this much.

Correct. I think also when ppl use the term project to describe a very high pick it’s another way of saying he won’t be Matthews or McDavid and be a star right away. I remember the term project was used on Barkov. He didn’t do great his first year, was serviceable his 2nd year and then was a 1st liner his 3rd year. I think that should have been a fair expectation for QB. But with the decision to have him waste a year in the AHL last year he is now a year behind so next year the expectation should be to have a similar year to what Barkov had in his D+2 (40-45 points) and then hopefully be a difference maker by his age 21 season. If he’s bad again next year it’s time to panic.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

He needs to put on weight, get an adult stick, sees a sports psychologist, and work on a lot of his skills. He looks like talentless out there. If this is mental, it’s scary he’s sunk this low. Don’t care about his age as much as I care about the fact he was taken overall. I’d love to see some glimpses of him being justified taken there but You see nothing.

It HAS to be mental. Hands don't just disappear overnight. I know you have this vision that he's just some big talentless plugger but big talentless pluggers don't get their first pro goal toedragging a goalie from behind the net and roofing it in front.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't think it was expected that he would struggle this much.

It also wasn't expected he'd shatter his ankle the night he looked like the best player on the rink.

Some here call setbacks 'excuses' but as mentioned before he's only played a handful of pro minutes at this point and he's still 19. The last few games have been uuuugly but there are way too many people throwing dirt on his casket too.

 

[apocalypse]

I don't think it was expected that he would struggle this much.

He's a project player. Why wouldn't you expect him to struggle? Everyone knew that he was absolutely raw. Nobody knew his ceiling. His ceiling was limitless and imo it still is. As long as TMac doesn't ruin him. Byfield will be an elite center in a couple years.

 

[johnjm22]

He's a project player. Why wouldn't you expect him to struggle? Everyone knew that he was absolutely raw. Nobody knew his ceiling. His ceiling was limitless and imo it still is. As long as TMac doesn't ruin him. Byfield will be an elite center in a couple years.

I did expect him to struggle. As most young players do.

I said, I didn't expect him to struggle this much.

 

[apocalypse]

I did expect him to struggle. As most young players do.

I said, I didn't expect him to struggle this much.

It doesn't help when you just put rookies on his line or pair him up with Brown and Iafallo.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I think the ankle injury made Byfield timid. He has his moments and flashes his skill, but it's very infrequent, and once a game at most, plus he seems more apprehensive going full speed into the boards since returning from injury.

His biggest struggle though is that he's realizing he's not competing against other juniors or semi-pro/amateur talent in the minors. Byfield was able to outmuscle and overpower his competition at those levels, but that doesn't fly in the NHL.

One area he is surprisingly performing well at is faceoffs, which is something rookies tend to struggle with in their first couple of years. He does get thrown out of the circle every now and then, but he's learning a lot playing at this level, which I think is the goal.

The Kings weren't counting on him to be an impact player from the get go, and the ankle injury slowed him down quite a bit, but now those who questioned the Phillip Danault are learning exactly why he was highly coveted by Rob Blake.

This season is a learning process in Byfield's development, and I'm sure it's been an eye-opening experience for him, because he's realizing how he needs to get stronger against this level of competition.

 

[tomd]

Correct. I think also when ppl use the term project to describe a very high pick it’s another way of saying he won’t be Matthews or McDavid and be a star right away. I remember the term project was used on Barkov. He didn’t do great his first year, was serviceable his 2nd year and then was a 1st liner his 3rd year. I think that should have been a fair expectation for QB. But with the decision to have him waste a year in the AHL last year he is now a year behind so next year the expectation should be to have a similar year to what Barkov had in his D+2 (40-45 points) and then hopefully be a difference maker by his age 21 season. If he’s bad again next year it’s time to panic.

If he wasn't put into the AHL last year where would you have put him? Wouldn't you rather that he be developed by the LA staff than be in Europe somewhere completely out of the control of the team? I generally agree with you but on this one I think you should re-assess.

 

[Herby]

I think he moves pretty well so he is probably healed from that injury. The issue has been doing anything with the puck on his stick, it just dies whenever he touches it. Remember what a 19 year old Kopitar would do? He made decisive moves to get into high scoring areas with regularity, with QB he is always timid, he has no confidence so he doesn’t trust his first read and natural instincts and the defenders in the NHL pounce on the hesitation and either take the puck or rub him into the boards (this happens to QB almost everytime, he’s never in open space). Confidence is an important part of development, it’s why I was so pissed when Turcotte was pulled from college, a guy without offensive confidence can have whatever offensive upside he has ruined.

I guess you could send him down, a lot of you seem to want that, but do we really want our forwards back in Ontario with how they have all looked on the Kings? That is the dilemma Blake faces and my guess is with how bad QB has looked so far and him still not being demoted it’s probably a last resort thing to send him to Ontario or is completely off the table all together. If he goes back to Ontario there is no guarantee he looks better next year, I think the 25-30 NHL games he gets is better for his confidence than a return to Ontario. The Kings have to think about next year with him, it’s a massively important season for him and his development.

 

[Herby]

If he wasn't put into the AHL last year where would you have put him? Wouldn't you rather that he be developed by the LA staff than be in Europe somewhere completely out of the control of the team? I generally agree with you but on this one I think you should re-assess.

NHL. 56 NHL games in a no pressure situation. He wouldn’t have been dominant, he might have even struggled as badly as he has this year. But 56 games experience learning the speed of the game and getting over the culture shock of playing in the NHL. As opposed to doing it this year in a tight playoff race where all his mistakes are magnified. QB makes that mistake yesterday last year and no one loses any sleep and his confidence isn’t shot. The kid obviously knows he’s playing awful and is hurting the team, he’s not an idiot, how do you think effects his confidence? Referenced Barkov earlier, he wasn’t great at 18, neither was Hughes, both these teams had the AHL option and chose not to use it and now both players look great. This is not a route that NHL teams usually take with elite 18 or 19 year olds eligible for the AHL (euros and ncaa), why did the Kings think differently and with the current results is it fair to say it was likely a poor decision?

Vilardi and Byfield should have been switched last year. I said QB should have been in NHL from the start, trust successful development models, I think his current season proves the AHL decision sucked. Wasn’t opposed to Gabe in NHL but in hindsight he should have been playing wing in the AHL last year. I think both players would be in a much better spot had they played in different leagues last year. I don’t think our 3rd line is a black hole with Gabe having 50 AHL games at the wing and QB entering the year with 50+ NHL games.

 

[tomd]

NHL. 56 NHL games in a no pressure situation. He wouldn’t have been dominant, he might have even struggled as badly as he has this year. But 56 games experience learning the speed of the game and getting over the culture shock of playing in the NHL. As opposed to doing it this year in a tight playoff race where all his mistakes are magnified. QB makes that mistake yesterday last year and no one loses any sleep and his confidence isn’t shot. The kid obviously knows he’s playing awful and is hurting the team, he’s not an idiot, how do you think effects his confidence? Referenced Barkov earlier, he wasn’t great at 18, neither was Hughes, both these teams had the AHL option and chose not to use it and now both players look great. This is not a route that NHL teams usually take with elite 18 or 19 year olds eligible for the AHL (euros and ncaa), why did the Kings think differently and with the current results is it fair to say it was likely a poor decision?

Vilardi and Byfield should have been switched last year. I said QB should have been in NHL from the start, trust successful development models, I think his current season proves the AHL decision sucked. Wasn’t opposed to Gabe in NHL but in hindsight he should have been playing wing in the AHL last year. I think both players would be in a much better spot had they played in different leagues last year. I don’t think our 3rd line is a black hole with Gabe having 50 AHL games at the wing and QB entering the year with 50+ NHL games.

I understand what you are saying and we can amicably disagree. I think the AHL was the right place for him last year and he did gain a lot of confidence playing there I do believe. The bigger issue is not development...it's NHL translatable talent.

 

[Herby]

I understand what you are saying and we can amicably disagree. I think the AHL was the right place for him last year and he did gain a lot of confidence playing there I do believe. The bigger issue is not development...it's NHL translatable talent.

Ok, well we will have to agree to disagree on the talent part. I think he has plenty of talent, he was just poorly developed in an important development year (unfortunately a common theme recently with the Kings).

Surprised you think he gained confidence in the AHL last year when he has looked this horrific in the NHL. He looks like an 18 year old kid fresh up from junior, not a 19 year old with 40 games of pro experience last year.

 

[tomd]

Ok, well we will have to agree to disagree on the talent part. I think he has plenty of talent, he was just poorly developed in an important development year (unfortunately a common theme recently with the Kings).

Surprised you think he gained confidence in the AHL last year when he has looked this horrific in the NHL. He looks like an 18 year old kid fresh up from junior, not a 19 year old with 40 games of pro experience last year.

Yeah, no idea why he looks so bad this year...maybe still the mental or physical after-effects of the ankle injury. He looked better in his six game trial last year.

 

[crassbonanza]

I guess you could send him down, a lot of you seem to want that, but do we really want our forwards back in Ontario with how they have all looked on the Kings? That is the dilemma Blake faces and my guess is with how bad QB has looked so far and him still not being demoted it’s probably a last resort thing to send him to Ontario or is completely off the table all together. If he goes back to Ontario there is no guarantee he looks better next year, I think the 25-30 NHL games he gets is better for his confidence than a return to Ontario. The Kings have to think about next year with him, it’s a massively important season for him and his development.

Well, the other part of the dilemma is determining what the primary goal of this season is, are we focusing on developing the prospects or on competing for the playoffs? If the focus is on competing benching Byfield for a couple of games or moving him to the AHL might be the better option. Beyond the lack of scoring, he is struggling possession wise with the worst SF% Rel among regular forwards on the team. However, as you point out it could be detrimental to his confidence and further disrupt his development, so that would be a tough decision to make.

 

[bland]

Ok, well we will have to agree to disagree on the talent part. I think he has plenty of talent, he was just poorly developed in an important development year (unfortunately a common theme recently with the Kings).

Surprised you think he gained confidence in the AHL last year when he has looked this horrific in the NHL. He looks like an 18 year old kid fresh up from junior, not a 19 year old with 40 games of pro experience last year.

If one looks at Byfield's game, he is having no trouble with the system. He is where he is supposed to be when he is supposed to be there more often than somebody his age should be. The problem is finding a way to translate his skills into productive moments and it isn't happening for him.

This is on the Kings developmental system and less on the player. There is far too much emphasis on being able to step in and not hurt the team than it is to reach out and push themselves to see how good they can be. I don't give a damn about the professionalism of a 19 year old. I care about him pushing himself to be the best he can be THEN learning how to do it responsibly.

The Kings developmental team is full of middle sixers who had to play safe to make it. I see nothing of these skilled forwards coming in except trying not to lose and getting down on themselves for not scoring. Vilardi has some of the worst body language I have ever seen in a player, very close to the same level Kempe has shown over the years. These kids are not enjoying the game.

Kaliyev is the best example of success here, but is he really learning anything other than how to be a 4th liner? He has struggled in attempts to play on the top 2 lines.

I wouldn't send Byfield down, but I would sure as hell sit him for a couple of games just to watch from the stands.

And maybe its also time to end the "its good for the kids to have Kopitar as a mentor" line of thinking, as none of them have shown any kind of improvement and if anything, being on a team chasing the playoffs instead of focusing on development has hurt them far more than helped.

 

[King'sPawn]

I think he moves pretty well so he is probably healed from that injury. The issue has been doing anything with the puck on his stick, it just dies whenever he touches it. Remember what a 19 year old Kopitar would do? He made decisive moves to get into high scoring areas with regularity, with QB he is always timid, he has no confidence so he doesn’t trust his first read and natural instincts and the defenders in the NHL pounce on the hesitation and either take the puck or rub him into the boards (this happens to QB almost everytime, he’s never in open space). Confidence is an important part of development, it’s why I was so pissed when Turcotte was pulled from college, a guy without offensive confidence can have whatever offensive upside he has ruined.

I guess you could send him down, a lot of you seem to want that, but do we really want our forwards back in Ontario with how they have all looked on the Kings? That is the dilemma Blake faces and my guess is with how bad QB has looked so far and him still not being demoted it’s probably a last resort thing to send him to Ontario or is completely off the table all together. If he goes back to Ontario there is no guarantee he looks better next year, I think the 25-30 NHL games he gets is better for his confidence than a return to Ontario. The Kings have to think about next year with him, it’s a massively important season for him and his development.

I agree. I truly think back to the AHL is a worst-case scenario.

For what it's worth, I agree Byfield has been worse of late - but I think he's very young. He does have a young body and there's a lot of adjusting.

His mobility is top notch. His puck control and confidence are just taking a huge dip. Which is, again, why I continue to question the development staff's capability of cultivating these skills. He's just not protecting the puck.

Which is, again, why playing top-six talent in a bottom-six role can be counter productive. There's an emphasis on forechecking and board battles, as opposed to puck protection.

All I can say is they have four forwards taken in the last 5 first rounds. The "lack of talent" available for the development staff is quickly losing its legs.

 

[Herby]

Well, the other part of the dilemma is determining what the primary goal of this season is, are we focusing on developing the prospects or on competing for the playoffs? If the focus is on competing benching Byfield for a couple of games or moving him to the AHL might be the better option. Beyond the lack of scoring, he is struggling possession wise with the worst SF% Rel among regular forwards on the team. However, as you point out it could be detrimental to his confidence and further disrupt his development, so that would be a tough decision to make.

This was a Dave Taylor special type season, try and sneak in while also developing young players, the problem is you can rarely do both, the team is on track to make the playoffs but unfortunately the most important young forwards the organization invested in are all struggling at the NHL level. You would assume that they had a plan and figured last year was a throw-away and this year was the year they wanted to go for it, and if that is the case why are you breaking in a 19 year old in a year where you expect to compete for the playoffs as opposed to in the throw away year? I guess people will say that he trusted his AHL team and the development staff to have had QB ready for this year, but he's paying the price for that faith now.

I think developing and getting the most out of QB trumps trying to compete this season in the eyes of the Kings. I think by now Blake has to know the AHL was not good for him (and Turcotte and Kupari as teens) and doesn't want to re-visit having a teenage forward playing down there, especially not his most important prospect. QB has been so bad that if the AHL were a consideration you have to believe he would have been demoted at the 15-20 game mark at the latest, Tuesday is 25 games. I'd be shocked if he is sent down to the AHL at any point this season.

 

[Herby]

I agree. I truly think back to the AHL is a worst-case scenario.

For what it's worth, I agree Byfield has been worse of late - but I think he's very young. He does have a young body and there's a lot of adjusting.

His mobility is top notch. His puck control and confidence are just taking a huge dip. Which is, again, why I continue to question the development staff's capability of cultivating these skills. He's just not protecting the puck.

Which is, again, why playing top-six talent in a bottom-six role can be counter productive. There's an emphasis on forechecking and board battles, as opposed to puck protection.

All I can say is they have four forwards taken in the last 5 first rounds. The "lack of talent" available for the development staff is quickly losing its legs.

I agree with all of this except for the bottom six role thing. The Kings like most teams expect offense from their third line now. The Kings third line is expected to produce complimentary scoring while not being asked to do any kind of heavy defensive lifting or physical play. Kopitar and Danault are doing both the heavy lifting defensively and are drawing the other teams top checkers. There are offensive opportunities for the third line and they have just failed miserably to do that. Byfield, Vilardi, Turcotte, Lias, Brown, you name it. Almost every single person tried in that role this year has been an offensive black hole. I mean the best producers in that role this year have been Kupari and Brown, enough said.

If the Kings had gotten similar production from their 3rd offensive line as they have gotten from their energy 4th line we very well might be challenging Calgary for the division.

 

[Schmooley]

I agree with all of this except for the bottom six role thing. The Kings like most teams expect offense from their third line now. The Kings third line is expected to produce complimentary scoring while not being asked to do any kind of heavy defensive lifting or physical play. Kopitar and Danault are doing both the heavy lifting defensively and are drawing the other teams top checkers. There are offensive opportunities for the third line and they have just failed miserably to do that. Byfield, Vilardi, Turcotte, Lias, Brown, you name it. Almost every single person tried in that role this year has been an offensive black hole. I mean the best producers in that role this year have been Kupari and Brown, enough said.

If the Kings had gotten similar production from their 3rd offensive line as they have gotten from their energy 4th line we very well might be challenging Calgary for the division.

Everyone should be producing of course. Though last game seemed like the 3rd line got a lot of defensive zone starts. They won a good amount of draws and broke out cleanly. They are having a ton of trouble setting up in the offensive zone though. No support and not in sync. When you watch Danault, Moore and Arvidsson they are always in some kind of triangle and anticipating where to be. Byfield Vilardi and Kupari is like two guys go deep one guy is high but cheating to the wrong side and other team breaks out of the zone pretty quickly.

 

[Herby]

If one looks at Byfield's game, he is having no trouble with the system. He is where he is supposed to be when he is supposed to be there more often than somebody his age should be. The problem is finding a way to translate his skills into productive moments and it isn't happening for him.

This is on the Kings developmental system and less on the player. There is far too much emphasis on being able to step in and not hurt the team than it is to reach out and push themselves to see how good they can be. I don't give a damn about the professionalism of a 19 year old. I care about him pushing himself to be the best he can be THEN learning how to do it responsibly.

The Kings developmental team is full of middle sixers who had to play safe to make it. I see nothing of these skilled forwards coming in except trying not to lose and getting down on themselves for not scoring. Vilardi has some of the worst body language I have ever seen in a player, very close to the same level Kempe has shown over the years. These kids are not enjoying the game.

Kaliyev is the best example of success here, but is he really learning anything other than how to be a 4th liner? He has struggled in attempts to play on the top 2 lines.

I wouldn't send Byfield down, but I would sure as hell sit him for a couple of games just to watch from the stands.

And maybe its also time to end the "its good for the kids to have Kopitar as a mentor" line of thinking, as none of them have shown any kind of improvement and if anything, being on a team chasing the playoffs instead of focusing on development has hurt them far more than helped.

I agree with a lot of this. Other teams aren't worried if 18 year old Top 2 picks are "ready to play or contribute" or "know the system in and out", they just put them out there, and in the vast majority of cases the talent eventually shines through when they are put in no-pressure situations where they aren't worried if they make a mistake or aren't holding the stick tight. The Kings had a wonderful opportunity to do that last year with QB, was he ready to be a Top 3 center last year? No, he wasn't. Would he have struggled? You bet. But he would have gotten 56 games to play his game, to gain confidence without pressure and to reach his offensive potential as quickly as possible. Instead the Kings put him in a watered down AHL because he "needs to learn the system" and "play responsible 2 way hockey"

This is the Kings way. Kupari, Turcotte and Byfield all in the AHL as teenagers "learning the system" and not surprisingly all of them have been huge disappointments offensively in the AHL and NHL.

No one here wants to admit it, but what the Kings have gotten offensively out of Vilardi, Kupari, Turcotte and Byfield is massively disappointing this season, massively. It should not be like this when you try and develop 1st round forwards (2OA, 5OA, 11OA,). Other teams don't struggle to develop highly drafted scorers this badly, why do the Kings? I think it was RJ or you who said, the conclusion is either the Kings are the worst evaluating team in the league when it comes to forwards, the unluckiest team in the league when it comes to forwards or they can't develop forwards. It has to be one of the 3. We have defenseman taken in the middle rounds of these drafts making an impact on the Kings this season, and the first round forwards are producing like Nick Shore after having multiple seasons of development in the organization.

 

[ru4reals]

Byfield has played a total of 43 AHL games and 29 NHL games since he was drafted in 2020. That's not a lot of games in two years and he's still 19. He was always projected with a longer-timeline.

It's amazing that he's had 29 games in the NHL and some folks already want him traded. Criticism is warranted not saying he doesn't deserve it but seriously I'm going to give him a few years before we can say it's time to move on from the kid. I'm pretty sure New Jersey is happy they didn't trade Jack Hughes after 29 NHL games. Just gotta be patient with a prospect like Byfield. I still believe he will live up to his potential and really hoping him and Turcotte proves everyone doubting them wrong. Not going to give up on a prospect after just a handful of NHL games. I'm okay with sending him down or doing whatever it takes to get him going again but to just get rid of him after 29 or so games is pretty ridiculous.

 

[Herby]

It's amazing that he's had 29 games in the NHL and some folks already want him traded. Criticism is warranted not saying he doesn't deserve it but seriously I'm going to give him a few years before we can say it's time to move on from the kid. I'm pretty sure New Jersey is happy they didn't trade Jack Hughes after 29 NHL games. Just gotta be patient with a prospect like Byfield. I still believe he will live up to his potential and really hoping him and Turcotte proves everyone doubting them wrong. Not going to give up on a prospect after just a handful of NHL games. I'm okay with sending him down or doing whatever it takes to get him going again but to just get rid of him after 29 or so games is pretty ridiculous.

Hughes is scoring at a 95 point pace, he answered the bell in his D+3, if QB puts up half that amount we are happy.

Everyone hopes for the best, but for both players next season is beyond huge, there is a ton of pressure to see something from both guys. Top 3 picks who aren't decent NHL'ers by D+3 and Top 10 picks who aren't NHL regulars by D+4 very rarely live up to expectations and most of the time are anything from disappointments to outright busts, that is just the reality of the situation for both players. Byfield needs to be decent in the NHL and Turcotte needs to be in the NHL.