Quinn Hughes third fastest defenseman to 300 assists

[LOFIN]

Q. Hughes is to Makar what MacKinnon is to McDavid.

 

[jackjohnson]

Q. Hughes is to Makar what MacKinnon is to McDavid.

Which means Hughes is better

 

[jackjohnson]

You seem like an old school hockey guy, did you ever play? Did you ever have a coach or adult tell you that the process matters more than the results? Don Cherry types would call it "playing the right way" and as long as you did that, you'd do well?

We use advanced stats to see who's "playing the right way" while not just looking at how much they score, because sometimes playing the right way doesn't end up in a goal, and sometimes players play the wrong way but still get rewarded.

To put it simply, Makar isn't playing the right way when MacKinnon isn't out there too.

When Makar is on the ice and MacKinnon isn't, of every 100 shots taken, only 40 of them are from the Avalanche. When they're both on the ice that number jumps up to 61. This means the Avalanche fail to break out, get trapped in their own end, etc. when MacKinnon isn't there.

When Hughes is on the ice and Miller isn't, of every 100 shots taken, 62 of them are for the Canucks. When they're both out there, that number is 66. This means that Hughes is rarely trapped in his own end and is able to break out of the zone regardless of who his linemates are.

Additionally, when it's Miller out there alone the Canucks only take 31/100 shots. So in reality it's not true that Miller is defensively elite, he actually doesn't control play at all when Hughes isn't also out there. It's Hughes who is playing the right way.

We use a stat called expected Goals For (xGF%) to measure who's doing things that usually result in goals, it's like boiling down a play-the-right-way stat to a percentage.

When Makar is out there with MacKinnon, the on ice events that lead to goals is about 65% for the Avalanche, but Makar's expected goals drops all the way to 37% when you only look at his ice time away from MacKinnon.

If you look at Hughes, when Miller is off ice, of all the events happening that usually contribute to goals, 61% of them are happening for the Canucks. If you look at Hughes even with just the 3rd and 4th line, that number jumps up to 69% indicating that Hughes actually makes his whole team better while Makar struggles with anyone else not named MacKinnon on the ice.

Hughes drives the play and he also carries the puck all the time from defensive zone to offensive zone and tries to set up plays for scoring chances. I have not seen another dman that constantly transitions the puck from his own zone to offensive zone and sets up scoring chances everytime he gets the puck and also probably holds onto the puck the longest compared to any other dman in the league including Makar. Makar tends to get rid of the puck much quicker, either passing to Mackinnon or shooting from the point. Hughes tends to do a circle in the offensive zone, dodge a couple of checks and keep cycling the puck until he has a great chance to shoot or make a pass for a great scoring chance. Its the reason why Hughes gets a lot of assists with whoever he plays with whether its pettersson, miller or blueger. I think his puck distribution is better than most centers in this league. He is definitely like another center or forward when he is in the offensive zone, very different than most dmen and the only one that is similar would be Makar.

I remember arguing with Habs fans about wanting him at 3. I'm here to say "told you so!".

Seriously though, congrats to him and Canucks fans, he's a special talent.

Even Detroit screwed up getting zadina so dont be too upset with Habs not picking him at 3 when Detroit also didnt pick him at 6 and he was playing in their backyard the whole time.

 

[jackjohnson]

Well I can argue Hughes is not putting up the points he does without Miller or Boeser bc they are two of the main recipients of his passes that put it in the net. I have not bothered to track these dweeb stats that you guys do, but considering how much these two players alone help him rack up assists, I wouldnt be surprised if they are helping his defensive zone numbers as well. Especially with a player like Miller who does well in both sides of the ice.

I dont think you even watch the Canucks play so your argument is not even credible. Miller is the player that has lots of give aways so your argument doesnt make sense. And the other thing that doesnt make sense is you arguing that Canucks top forwards get him the most assist, no duh. It would be the true for all the elite offensive dman in this league since they also play with the top PP unit and their best forwards tend to score more goals compared to their bottom 6. Show me an offensive dman that gets most of his assist from bottom 6 forwards?? So if Hughes wanted to get a lot of his assist from Bains, you think he would have a lot of points?

he's turned into an absolute beast of a player, so noticeable each and every game, almost always the best player on either team. I just wish ep40 would take notes, he's gone the opposite direction x,x

Yeah EP 40 has done the opposite of Hughes. If EP40 is worth 11.5 mil then Hughes deserves the max contract.

 

[Coffee]

Q. Hughes is to Makar what MacKinnon is to McDavid.

hey ! You don't mean that

 

[LOFIN]

hey ! You don't mean that

What I mean by it is that Hughes (and MacKinnon) are capable and of having individual seasons better than Makar (and McDavid). And it's totally fine to even pick the other player because of style, or even if you think he's better. But the consensus is and most likely will remain that Makar (and MacKinnon) are the best players in their positions. With McDavid obviously being the best skater overall.

 

[Rowlet]

What I mean by it is that Hughes (and MacKinnon) are capable and of having individual seasons better than Makar (and McDavid). And it's totally fine to even pick the other player because of style, or even if you think he's better. But the consensus is and most likely will remain that Makar (and MacKinnon) are the best players in their positions. With McDavid obviously being the best skater overall.

I don't think that's accurate, Makar's stats have been steadily getting worse every year. He hasn't been the best D in the league since the start of the 23-24 season. He's been about average, or worse than average, relative to his team since the beginning of last season.

MacKinnon and McDavid are much more consistently close.

edit: the numbers

 

[Favster]

Hughes drives the play and he also carries the puck all the time from defensive zone to offensive zone and tries to set up plays for scoring chances. I have not seen another dman that constantly transitions the puck from his own zone to offensive zone and sets up scoring chances everytime he gets the puck and also probably holds onto the puck the longest compared to any other dman in the league including Makar. Makar tends to get rid of the puck much quicker, either passing to Mackinnon or shooting from the point. Hughes tends to do a circle in the offensive zone, dodge a couple of checks and keep cycling the puck until he has a great chance to shoot or make a pass for a great scoring chance. Its the reason why Hughes gets a lot of assists with whoever he plays with whether its pettersson, miller or blueger. I think his puck distribution is better than most centers in this league. He is definitely like another center or forward when he is in the offensive zone, very different than most dmen and the only one that is similar would be Makar.


Even Detroit screwed up getting zadina so dont be too upset with Habs not picking him at 3 when Detroit also didnt pick him at 6 and he was playing in their backyard the whole time.

Haha I know, it would have 100% been considered a reach to take Hughes at 3, I just remember watching him at Michigan and being shocked how good he was. The Habs also needed LD in the organization at that point, our top LD was Victor Mete at the time.

I've been wrong before, but I was right about that one.

 

[Raistlin]

Tocchet crediting Hughes with Crosby level drive to get better is just the pinnacle of praise. That is the type of captain that will mold you a team of high producers throughout his career. I dont know if I see this quality in his other brothers, this is a unique quality that the fanbase should be ecstatic about, the type you consider offering lifetime contracts to.

 

[jackjohnson]

Tocchet crediting Hughes with Crosby level drive to get better is just the pinnacle of praise. That is the type of captain that will mold you a team of high producers throughout his career. I dont know if I see this quality in his other brothers, this is a unique quality that the fanbase should be ecstatic about, the type you consider offering lifetime contracts to.

He was the best choice to be captain, he leads by example, high work ethic and doesnt get too down and is even keeled. He always strives to become better. Those are the qualities needed to be a good captain.

 

[jackjohnson]

What I mean by it is that Hughes (and MacKinnon) are capable and of having individual seasons better than Makar (and McDavid). And it's totally fine to even pick the other player because of style, or even if you think he's better. But the consensus is and most likely will remain that Makar (and MacKinnon) are the best players in their positions. With McDavid obviously being the best skater overall.

Problem is Makar has gotten steadily worst in defense and is always injured every year. Hughes has been consistently improving and getting better while also being a lot more durable compared to Makar based on his style of play. So over long periods of time, Hughes will keep getting more points compared to Makar (due to being so injury prone) while also improving. Makar is a great talent but he needs to be more consistent and less injury prone. Basically Makar reminds me of Forsberg, what great player he could be if he didnt keep getting injured.

 

[Oak]

I dont think you even watch the Canucks play so your argument is not even credible. Miller is the player that has lots of give aways so your argument doesnt make sense. And the other thing that doesnt make sense is you arguing that Canucks top forwards get him the most assist, no duh. It would be the true for all the elite offensive dman in this league since they also play with the top PP unit and their best forwards tend to score more goals compared to their bottom 6. Show me an offensive dman that gets most of his assist from bottom 6 forwards?? So if Hughes wanted to get a lot of his assist from Bains, you think he would have a lot of points?

You just validated my point. Makar needs more talent around him to play better in both zones. Makes what he is doing in the offensive zone even more impressive.

Hughes will never be on the same level as Makar.

 

[Breakers]

Bro.... Quinn Hughes can't defend look at his plus/minus
(finishes with a +38)
Bro.... Quinn hughes is a PP merchant try producing at even strength
(leads the league in even strength scoring for d)
Bro..... Quinn hughes will never be taken seriously until he wins the norris
(wins the norris)


also the comment about notable defensive stalwart Brock Boeser boosting Hughes metrics.......... The piece de resistance of this thread, easily the dumbest comment in here

If there is one thing Canuck fans constantly talk about.......... Is Boeser being somehow related to Bergeron with how good he is defensively.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

You just validated my point. Makar needs more talent around him to play better in both zones. Makes what he is doing in the offensive zone even more impressive.

Hughes will never be on the same level as Makar.

Just take the L and retire from HF.

 

[Coffee]

You just validated my point. Makar needs more talent around him to play better in both zones. Makes what he is doing in the offensive zone even more impressive.

Hughes will never be on the same level as Makar.

Terrible retirement speech

(Do forgive me if this wasn’t a HF retirement speech)

 

[TheBig08]

Pretty wild the records Hughes and Makar have set over the last few years.

Could very well be a Sid vs. Ovi situation (only for dmen obviously) we see the next decade or so.

makar over hughes he better defensively and offensively. watch cale become the second fastest to 300 assist right behind bobby orr.

I think if cale can keep doing what hes doing he will be better than lindstrom, they both started their career the same too they oth got drafted at 18 then waited 2 years before they played their first season.

Also good question is cale actually good on defense and if so how does he rank to the best of them such as lindstrom?

 

[JoeSakic13]

makar over hughes he better defensively and offensively. watch cale become the second fastest to 300 assist right behind bobby orr.

I think if cale can keep doing what hes doing he will be better than lindstrom, they both started their career the same too they oth got drafted at 18 then waited 2 years before they played their first season.

Also good question is cale actually good on defense and if so how does he rank to the best of them such as lindstrom?

Good questions. But let’s not turn this topic about Hughes’ accomplishment into that discussion.

 

[TheBig08]

Good questions. But let’s not turn this topic about Hughes’ accomplishment into that discussion.

i would like to know the answers tho?

 

[JoeSakic13]

i would like to know the answers tho?

I’d start a new topic on it. You’re gonna get some very fired up responses, but there will be some thought out ones in there too.

 

[HairyKneel]

He's a top 5 player in the game. It isn't even debatable. He's been on for 14 ES goal for and 4 against. The ice is clearly tilted when he and that five man unit are on the ice. I'm curious if Miller's and Pettersson's numbers might look different if Peter didn't play more with Quinn. And Hronek has only 3 assists but he's turned into a hell of a defender who can be pretty liberal with his stick. He's a gamer. Best defensive pair in the NHL.

 

[Knight53]

He is insane. Might be the best player in the league right now. Keeps this up and he will win the Norris trophy again.

 

[nucksflailtogether]

He is insane. Might be the best player in the league right now. Keeps this up and he will win the Norris trophy again.

He's top 10 easy. Mcdavid had 40 playoff points. Mackinnon, Kuch, Makar, Drai, etc.

That goal was extremely gorgeous to be clear.

 

[Breakers]

Quinn Hughes is like Torey Krug except he is worse defensively and not as good offensively. Also Krug will actually get physical and battle for pucks at times, Quinn does not battle, especially not on the boards.

Oooooooffffffffffff

 

[LordBacon]

You heard it here first folks,
3rd fastest defenseman to 300 points & Norris winning D isnt as good as Torey Krug.

 

[Sykur]

Hughes shake n bake like Steph Curry tonight, getting separation and jackin' 3s.