Quinn Hughes is having a Hart caliber season

[Toby91ca]

Really as it's funny that the current Norris recipient also didn't play a lot on the PK last year eh?

Voters are voting for the best overall Dman and Quinn is bringing plenty of 2 way play to his second Norris just like he did in his first Norris.

You are right, he didn't play a lot last year either, which was a significant outlier vs. all other winners of the Norris except Karlsson).....however, he still played 270% more PK last year than this year

 

[Rabid Ranger]

He plays 25 mins a game on average, and you want him to play more mins so you can say he pks?

I didn't know you can play 25 -27 mins a game without playing any defence

He plays the same minutes as Makar. I don't know why it's such a badge of honor to have your best players PK. Let your lesser lights do that, especially on defense. These guys get beat up as is.

 

[Toby91ca]

He plays the same minutes as Makar. I don't know why it's such a badge of honor to have your best players PK. Let your lesser lights do that, especially on defense. These guys get beat up as is.

If you are the best defenseman in the league, why would you be kept off the ice for PK?

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

If you are the best defenseman in the league, why would you be kept off the ice for PK?

PK is much more systematic. That's why dudes like Rob Scuderi could excel in that role. Great D-men have a huge 2-way influence on the game, and on the PK that's limited by necessity. So, sure, give them some minutes, but if any plug can do it, might as well give them the gruntwork (especially on D -- I can see a bit more argument for a forward in terms of posing a shorthanded threat).

 

[Toby91ca]

PK is much more systematic. That's why dudes like Rob Scuderi could excel in that role. Great D-men have a huge 2-way influence on the game, and on the PK that's limited by necessity. So, sure, give them some minutes, but if any plug can do it, might as well give them the gruntwork (especially on D -- I can see a bit more argument for a forward in terms of posing a shorthanded threat).

I get the explanation, but my point is, if someone is truly the best defenseman in the league, you would think a team would put him out in all situations.....historically, that is what the voting results have reflected as well.

 

[Chet Donnelly]

If you are the best defenseman in the league, why would you be kept off the ice for PK?

Maybe because they want him on the ice more for ES and PP, and the penalty killing role can be allocated to other players (like Juulsen, who is garbage outside the PK). Why assume that the reason he isn't on the PK is because he can't be trusted? He doesn't have to be superman. There are other players on the roster. He doesn't need to do everything.

 

[tanti9]

If you are the best defenseman in the league, why would you be kept off the ice for PK?

Last time I checked, a hockey team is made up of individuals players with each offering certain strengths and have weaknesses. Hughes is more than capable of penalty killing but is already logging 25+ minutes a night. There are other players that play on the Canucks that are suited to PK (currently 12th in the NHL I believe) and can soak up the minutes. There are many players in the NHL that are non-existent offensively but are known and lauded for their PK killing. Point is (as other people have noted), Quinn Hughes could PK (with his hockey IQ, he could do anything, fk put him center lol) but Canucks have other players that can hold the fort and do the job. If Vancouver is around the top 10 in the NHL in PK, I am more than happy deploying Hughes in other parts of the game. Have a great day!!

lol...the above posters beat me to it

 

[wetcoast]

If you are the best defenseman in the league, why would you be kept off the ice for PK?

It would be one thing if a player couldn't do something, but players don't deploy themselves thus I brought up datsyuk, coaches do that and 5 on 5 play is probably the most important thing to consider anyways right?

That's why the award states best all around Dman, the focus on the PK is misguided here.

None of the 3 Norris finalists are their teams top PK guys right?

 

[tantalum]

He doesn't penalty kill is such an odd complaint. You have a D-man that controls play 5-on-5 and on the PP to an insane degree and is going to play 25 minutes a night. You don't want 2-3 of those minutes taken up on the PK. You want him out when the team is going to do their scoring. The extra 2 or 3 shorthanded goals he might provide with his play just isn't worth the trade off of lesser production 5-on-5/PP.

Could he penalty kill? No doubt he can. People who think he's poor defensively have not bothered to watch him the last couple of seasons. He is a good defender.

 

[Toby91ca]

It would be one thing if a player couldn't do something, but players don't deploy themselves thus I brought up datsyuk, coaches do that and 5 on 5 play is probably the most important thing to consider anyways right?

That's why the award states best all around Dman, the focus on the PK is misguided here.

None of the 3 Norris finalists are their teams top PK guys right?

The problem here is that I'm not necessarily arguing that a player must play vs. not play, opinions aside, I'm simply pointing out the factual results of voting.

There is a big difference between being the top guy and not playing at all though.

Since time on ice stats have been tracked (26 seasons I think).....Norris winner was a top pair Dman on PK 16 times. The winners where that was not the case were as follows....huge outliers for Karlsson and Hughes....but even then, the years they won, they still played a bit. I know Hughes is playing a bit this year, but would be another significant drop and a move of the bar significantly here......that said, trends have changed a bit in the last 10 years or so. PK ice time per game for winners that weren't top pair

Lidstrom - 2:40
Hedman - 2:35
Josi - 2:00
Burns - 1:44
Subban - 1:27
Makar - 1:25
Hughes - 0:36
Karlsson - 0:34
Karlsson - 0:34
Karlsson - 0:22

 

[GRob83]

That's wildly flawed logic.

The Canucks are underperforming because absolutely everything that could have gone wrong with them has gone wrong. Their two star centers cannot coexist, their #2 defenseman was sidelined for months, their Vezina-finalist goaltender completely tanked his return from injury, their best goalscorer was concussed, their best grinder got cancer, and their room devolved into the "Lord of the Flies".

No one cares about pre-season predications. The reality is that the Canucks are a mess and Hughes has still dragged them into a playoff spot.

Sorry, but you're just flat out wrong. Columbus was dead last in the league by 10 points a season ago. Vancouver was a Division Winner that is self destructing this season.

 

[wetcoast]

The problem here is that I'm not necessarily arguing that a player must play vs. not play, opinions aside, I'm simply pointing out the factual results of voting.

There is a big difference between being the top guy and not playing at all though.

Since time on ice stats have been tracked (26 seasons I think).....Norris winner was a top pair Dman on PK 16 times. The winners where that was not the case were as follows....huge outliers for Karlsson and Hughes....but even then, the years they won, they still played a bit. I know Hughes is playing a bit this year, but would be another significant drop and a move of the bar significantly here......that said, trends have changed a bit in the last 10 years or so. PK ice time per game for winners that weren't top pair

Lidstrom - 2:40
Hedman - 2:35
Josi - 2:00
Burns - 1:44
Subban - 1:27
Makar - 1:25
Hughes - 0:36
Karlsson - 0:34
Karlsson - 0:34
Karlsson - 0:22

That's great but it's already been pointed out that it's a Canucks coaching perspective and not a Hughes problem as he is very good defensively for an elite point producer and the canucks PK ranks 12th right now and if you were the coach would you "waste" or "manage" things differently, ie playing the other PK guys more at ES or on the PP so Quinn could fulfill some metric that you and others think is somehow important?

I mean we saw how crappy and exposed the canucks were when Quinn was out and that small window further builds on his actual Hart case, you know most valuable player.

Please tell us how you would deploy Quinn to make the Canucks a better team.

Sorry, but you're just flat out wrong. Columbus was dead last in the league by 10 points a season ago. Vancouver was a Division Winner that is self destructing this season.

This pertains to Hart voting how exactly?

Coach of the year award is another thread.

 

[benfranklin]

This thread reminds me about who is living rent free here.

View attachment 969752

That is my move in Avs threads!

Keep embarrassing yourself. Worth a good laugh with your pathetic clown takes.

I provided proof via PK usage and Line starts that the Canucks do their best to not have Quinn play any actual defense. But dude won the Norris last year with the same usage so it will probably happen again. The Norris is a combination of points and voters look at +/- and assume that means defense. Its sad but true.