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Quinn Hughes is having a Hart caliber season

John Mandalorian said:
Youre attributing to me certain arguments when im just sharing widely-held observations of how it works - whether you agree or not.

I think you can make an argument MVP should be player of the year simply based on the original definition being voided by outdated/obsolete language. "Ajudged" when was the last time you used that in a sentence without it being the reciting of this? Seeing a relic of a word like this makes one wonder how many teams were in the league at the outset of this definition.

Determining the most important player to a team among 6 teams that are all/mostly in the Eastern time zone seems to be a lot less problematic than determining the "most valuable" player to 32 teams. Several teams are in the west an many voters dont even watch these games. So why even pretend that the level of scrutiny can be the same when it comes to adhering to the original definition.

Practically speaking, its been closer to Player of the Year for a long time. And its probably for the best.

But even in adhering to that old language, it's highly subjective.
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Believe it or not, I actually don't think it would be particularly back breaking to be educated on the subject, especially if I were being paid to be knowledgable about hockey.
 
Rowlet said:
His production dipped but his overall play was better.

The Canucks top 6 had Ilya Mikheyev in it, and Pettersson was suffering from tendinitis, additionally, with the injury to Demko the team was forced to switch from a higher offence transition system that regularly left Demko out to dry, to one that had to collapse around Silovs and protect tons of high danger chances against and turtle leads harder, while relying on very few chances for.
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better in what way
 
Rowlet said:
Believe it or not, I actually don't think it would be particularly back breaking to be educated on the subject, especially if I were being paid to be knowledgable about hockey.
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Perhaps but there's not really a mechanism to hold anyone accountable. But again, interpretations are subjective so they can always use that as a default excuse even when they're simply negligent/lazy.
 
dirtydanglez said:
better in what way
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Yes, metrics aren't everything, but Hughes controlled the game at an even better rate than he did in the regular season, at a rate above even McDavid in most cases.

Regular Season:

CF% 57.15%
CF Rel 9.53%
FF% 54.82%
FF Rel 6.11%
xG% 54.64%
xG Rel 4.14

Playoffs:

CF% 59%
CF Rel 16.9%
FF% 58.18%
FF Rel 16.15%
xG% 58.48%
xG Rel 12.65%

McDavid playoffs:

CF% 56.83%
CF Rel 12.22%
FF% 57.39%
FF Rel 12.41%
xG% 57.53
xG Rel 13.40%
 
Maybe he was having an off night but I saw him for the first time this season last game and he was not as advertised. Only time he was noticable is when he backed off from a check leading to a goal against.

In my viewings this season Makar and Werenski look like they are on another level
 
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FlappyGiraffe said:
Maybe he was having an off night but I saw him for the first time this season last game and he was not as advertised. Only time he was noticable is when he backed off from a check leading to a goal against.

In my viewings this season Makar and Werenski look like they are on another level
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You mean Hughes wasn't very good in a 6-1 loss where nobody looked good? No shit.
 
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SillyRabbit said:
Two more points in two more games? What happens if Hughes scores 3 or 4 points in those two games in hand? Is Hughes your Norris frontrunner then?

And just to clarify, competition matters to you but strength of teammates/linemates don't?

How would Makar look being paired with Tyler Myers?
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Makar would make Myers look like Nick Lidstrom. Lol
 
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Rowlet said:
Hughes possession numbers were better in the post season than they were in the regular season.

This is just a tired talking point which has been proven false already.
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Yea, great. You go check numbers.
I watch the games.
Listen. He's a fantastic player no doubt about that. Is he better than McDavid, Mackinon Kucherov , Draisaitl....absolutely not.
Even if ya don't agree .....there is nothing crazy or far fetched about picking those 4 ahead of him for the Hart.
Stop kidding yourself.
 
McFlash97 said:
Canuck fans clamouring for Hughes to win the Hart is rather funny. Only 2 defenseman in the modern era have won the Hart. Chris Pronger and Bobby Orr. Pronger by default because the league was devout of any scoring talent. Defenseman like Raymond Bourque and Paul Coffey putting up ludicrous puck possession and point totals couldn't win it. But Quinn Hughes apparently with 9 goals past the halfway mark will win it. On a team nowhere near the top of the league. Quinn Hughes is a great defenseman whos puck possession numbers are truly phenomenal this year, but lets be realistic here. The league isn't devout of players putting up phenomenal numbers. He isnt winning the Hart unless he goes ballistic and puts up 110 + points is over +40 and plays at least 75 plus games and the Canucks shoot up the standings.
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Funny enough, there's only one defenseman in the league in the middle of setting a record that those players themselves set and its not Makar or Hughes.
Rowlet said:
Because beyond the fact that typically players who don't make the playoffs aren't considered, your method of evaluation is silly. They aren't considered not because they aren't as important, but because voters are biased in favour of teams who make the playoffs.

If your argument is to only say "Hughes is less important because the Canucks aren't on pace to make the playoffs", that just makes it seem like you aren't actually interested in determining who is more important to their team. If you simply want the conversation to stop, then you can ignore the thread.

Last I checked, Hughes was leading the league in adv stats relative to their teammates, while Werenski isn't even leading the Blue Jackets.
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Dude I get that you love Hughes, but this comical.

Oh no Werenski isnt leading his team in advanced stats, just real stats, what a failure. Werenski is on pace to set the franchise records for points by a player. Not a defenseman, but the most points ever by a any player to ever wear a blue jackets uniform. He's leading the league is basically every major stat by defenseman, but because his advanced stats are #1 he's not worthy of the Hart? The Jackets have never once had a player reach 100 points in their entire history and Vancouver have multiple players who have done it multiple times ON TOP of Hughes. But please continue to tell me Werenski isnt the most important player on his team because the ELITE 1C Sean Monahan is on the team.
 
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Rowlet said:
Yes, metrics aren't everything, but Hughes controlled the game at an even better rate than he did in the regular season, at a rate above even McDavid in most cases.

Regular Season:

CF% 57.15%
CF Rel 9.53%
FF% 54.82%
FF Rel 6.11%
xG% 54.64%
xG Rel 4.14

Playoffs:

CF% 59%
CF Rel 16.9%
FF% 58.18%
FF Rel 16.15%
xG% 58.48%
xG Rel 12.65%

McDavid playoffs:

CF% 56.83%
CF Rel 12.22%
FF% 57.39%
FF Rel 12.41%
xG% 57.53
xG Rel 13.40%
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Hypothetically would the Oilers consider trading McDavid for Hughes. Not a chance.
Would the Canucks trade Hughes for McDavid? In a heart beat.
 
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PaulD said:
Yea, great. You go check numbers.
I watch the games.
Listen. He's a fantastic player no doubt about that. Is he better than McDavid, Mackinon Kucherov , Draisaitl....absolutely not.
Even if ya don't agree .....there is nothing crazy or far fetched about picking those 4 ahead of him for the Hart.
Stop kidding yourself.
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PaulD said:
Hypothetically would the Oilers consider trading McDavid for Hughes. Not a chance.
Would the Canucks trade Hughes for McDavid? In a heart beat.
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Don't worry Paul, the stats aren't going to hurt you, it's possible to think about hockey in more ways than one.

CBJx614 said:
Dude I get that you love Hughes, but this comical.

Oh no Werenski isnt leading his team in advanced stats, just real stats, what a failure. Werenski is on pace to set the franchise records for points by a player. Not a defenseman, but the most points ever by a any player to ever wear a blue jackets uniform. He's leading the league is basically every major stat by defenseman, but because his advanced stats are #1 he's not worthy of the Hart? The Jackets have never once had a player reach 100 points in their entire history and Vancouver have multiple players who have done it multiple times ON TOP of Hughes. But please continue to tell me Werenski isnt the most important player on his team because the ELITE 1C Sean Monahan is on the team.
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Since you're only interested in purposefully misconstruing my arguments over multiple threads, there's no reason to continue.

Have a nice day.
 
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Rowlet said:
Yes, metrics aren't everything, but Hughes controlled the game at an even better rate than he did in the regular season, at a rate above even McDavid in most cases.

Regular Season:

CF% 57.15%
CF Rel 9.53%
FF% 54.82%
FF Rel 6.11%
xG% 54.64%
xG Rel 4.14

Playoffs:

CF% 59%
CF Rel 16.9%
FF% 58.18%
FF Rel 16.15%
xG% 58.48%
xG Rel 12.65%

McDavid playoffs:

CF% 56.83%
CF Rel 12.22%
FF% 57.39%
FF Rel 12.41%
xG% 57.53
xG Rel 13.40%
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you gotta be next level clueless to even compare Hughes to McDavid in the playoffs. The numbers are even more staggering in McDavids favour because it shows just how efficient he was. He could lug the puck around for another 5 seconds extra every shift to blow Hughes metrics away by circling the net, or take the puck, walk 5 guys pass it off , then get it back for a tap in. Not even in the same league bro. Stop embarrassing yourself.
 
CBJx614 said:
Oh no Werenski isnt leading his team in advanced stats, just real stats, what a failure. Werenski is on pace to set the franchise records for points by a player. Not a defenseman, but the most points ever by a any player to ever wear a blue jackets uniform. He's leading the league is basically every major stat by defenseman, but because his advanced stats are #1 he's not worthy of the Hart? The Jackets have never once had a player reach 100 points in their entire history and Vancouver have multiple players who have done it multiple times ON TOP of Hughes. But please continue to tell me Werenski isnt the most important player on his team because the ELITE 1C Sean Monahan is on the team.
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I mean Werenski is having a great year and its unprecedented for CBJ, but the Hart isnt the award for the player most important to their teams HISTORY but the player most important to their team THIS SEASON.

You mentioned Sean Monahan but the Blue Jackets have 2 forwards going at a point per game, one is within a couple points of Werenski. If the argument is that Werenski has less help then that absolutely helps him against Makar (and why I'd have him ahead of Makar for the Hart and Norris). The Canucks have zero forwards at a point per game. Better players sure but they arent playing like it. Right now in Norris its Hughes > Werenski > Makar and for Hart (among defensemen) its really only Hughes > Werenski since there is zero argument for Makar being the most important player for his team when Mackinnon is there.

Werenski is kind of where Hughes was a couple years ago where he had emerged as a truly elite player but wasnt getting the attention because people just looked at career stats and had their own biases about him (for Hughes it was he couldnt play defense) and they just defaulted to Makar and Fox are strictly better. Hughes went into last year ranked outside the top 20 by several sports news agencies... ESPN had him below Seth Jones on their D rankings. Thats the kind of disrespect Werenski gets right now plus because hes in Columbus he also gets the indignity of being completely ignored. Guys like Morrissey being in a Canadian market on a top team get more shine than Werenski does. So I get your frustration here. Werenski deserves consideration for the Hart and should be a runner up for the Norris if the rest of the season plays out as it has so far. Just be glad that you get to watch him play, even if fans of other teams and the media dont care to affirm how good he is.
 
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Coach Parker said:
I hope East Coast voters are watching him play during this circus created by the Canucks. His numbers, play and ability to produce during this drama should further cement him as the Norris favourite.
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In their last game against the Sabres I saw a Van defender beat a guy to a loose puck, beat another dude wide, and got a play to the front of the net. The rebound popped back to the point, and the Van defender got there faster than the 2 Sabres he’d just beat.

Didn’t need to see a number, knew it was Hughes. You don’t see that very often in the nhl, absolutely dominant player.
 
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Skidooboy said:
sooo. with the Nucks imploding, and the front office exposing everything to the public....

what would it take to make him a Jet?
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A lot.

Dust said:
I would agree with this. Defenseman rarely get the limelight that forwards do, being on the west coast doesn't help with league wide exposure either.
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Hughes is in that upper elite tier with only a handful of other players that you can count on one hand. Makar is right there with him.

I'd have it McDavid, Makar, MacKinnon, Draisaitl, Hughes in no particular order.
 
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