Question About the Zub Hit on Tavares

[flyingfingers]

Unless of course people feel like Zub extended a chicken wing to hit Tavares, which you would have to do if someone skated into you, or if none of that even matters because a shot to the head is a penalty even if non-intentional.

I know you declared this thread over, but some of us are still having adult discussion here. Feel free to remove yourself if you are done with it though.

You seem to be under the impression that any head impact is an automatic penalty. This is not at all true.

 

[swiftwin]

According to Senators fans, you're allowed to take one hand off the stick, get your elbow up, and make direct contact with your opponents head, as long as you're standing still

A lot of people clueless about the NHLs rules

It's a clear penalty and should get a call from DoPS but as usual when it's our guy on the receiving end there will be nothing

According to Senators fans, neutral fans, the refs, and the department of player safety.

If seems to me only Leafs fans are clueless about the NHL's rules here.

 

[flyingfingers]

So that obviously means you cant call any more penalties in their favor no matter how obvious?=

Game management or series management, its all a trash way to run your officiating. We are in a strange era where the team committing obviously more infractions can end up getting penalized less in series. Just let the refs set the damn precedent early in a game and then call it the same all game regardless of score so the players know whats up.

No it means that calls are missed and made in error on both sides, but if you look at it in totality, the Leafs haven’t been disadvantaged by refereeing.

For every “this should’ve been a penalty call” complaint that the Leafs could have, the Sens could bring up their own.

I mean, we’re talking head contact here, right? There was a play with about 7 minutes left in the 1st where David Perron was battling for a puck out front of the Leafs net. Calle Jarnkrok skated by and his elbow connected with the back of Perron’s head. Clear head contact. Perron went down, and since he’s a guy with concussion history, got up and put Jarnkrok in a headlock. He got the penalty.

If any head contact is a penalty, as some are claiming in this thread, shouldn’t Jarnkrok have been called?

 

[ottawagm]

Tavares should be suspended for 3 games, for running into Zub when he didn't have the puck. It is not Zub's fault he chose to run into his elbow, that's on Tavares, as he was the one moving.

It's the same with the Greig hit. Tavares was skating into Greig's stick and it should have been a penalty to Tavares.

This guy needs to watch where he's going.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Tavares ran into a defender who had established position and didn't move

 

[Mick Riddleton]

That is not even a hit, that's just a bump and JT sold it.

 

[Zybalto]

No it means that calls are missed and made in error on both sides, but if you look at it in totality, the Leafs haven’t been disadvantaged by refereeing.

For every “this should’ve been a penalty call” complaint that the Leafs could have, the Sens could bring up their own.

It's been more or less back and forth but its still a mystery (like DOPS suspensions). I don't think the Leafs are getting free reign to elbow Stutzle in the face or butt end Tkachuk in the head in a close game Tuesday though lol. Props to the Sens for pushing through it though. They could have been crushed by allowing that late goal or giving up that PP.

I had Leafs in 6 from the start and am not surprised a Sens team that had the 5th best record in hockey after the deadline is pushing back. Ullmark also got some mojo back too. I think the Leafs are going to come out blazing next game though for letting that one slip away. I don't think officiating is going to be an issue either way too.

 

[ottawagm]

That is not even a hit, that's just a bump and JT sold it.

I'm glad the dive spotter made him sit for a 10 min misconduct for such an egregious dive.

 

[PB37]

That is not even a hit, that's just a bump and JT sold it.

IMO Tavares was legitimately shook from the hit because he wasn't suspecting it. It's like getting rear ended suddenly. That's not to say Zub did anything wrong - he has a right to his position and to brace himself for contact if he sees it coming. If he doesn't, he puts himself in danger of also getting knocked over.

 

[conFABulator]

You seem to be under the impression that any head impact is an automatic penalty. This is not at all true.

I am not under that impression. I am wondering why an elbow to the head is not worthy of a penalty or discussion or a review.

People here seem to be under the impression that if it wasn't intentional then there can't be a penalty and that is actually the thing that is not at all true.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Tavares skated right into him lmfao wtf

 

[conFABulator]

IMO Tavares was legitimately shook from the hit because he wasn't suspecting it. It's like getting rear ended suddenly. That's not to say Zub did anything wrong - he has a right to his position and to brace himself for contact if he sees it coming. If he doesn't, he puts himself in danger of also getting knocked over.

I agree with the first part and sort of agree with the second part. I don't think Zub was in any way trying to injure JT with a head shot, however head shot calls and discipline don't only exist when there is intent. It's like a high stick, careless sticks can be penalities and so too can careless elbows.

 

[Roo]

Felt more like Tavares going into Zub. Zub is going to brace for impact but Tavares doesn’t notice until the very end.

 

[PB37]

I agree with the first part and sort of agree with the second part. I don't think Zub was in any way trying to injure JT with a head shot, however head shot calls and discipline don't only exist when there is intent. It's like a high stick, careless sticks can be penalities and so too can careless elbows.

1. Tavares basically asks for the contact to happen. If Zub doesn't brace himself for it, he also gets knocked over.

2. I don't think there was direct head contact but there was a whiplash effect from Tavares not expecting the contact to happen.

This is all just a case of one player not seeing another and that other player bracing himself for the hit. Nothing more.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Felt more like Tavares going into Zub. Zub is going to brace for impact but Tavares doesn’t notice until the very end.

Since Zub threw out his forearm/elbow/shoulder (whatever it was, hard to see from that angle) and Tavares didn't duck or fall over (i.e suddnely change his head/body position), he's still responsible for what happens there.

If he hits him in the chest, no problem but he seemed to catch him in the head/face.

Minor for Elbowing or check to the head could have been called. It can't be interference to me, the contact was minimal and while he steps toward Tavares he doesn't go out of his way to make contact. He's just boxing out.

Borderline tho.

 

[Senscore]

I'm glad the dive spotter made him sit for a 10 min misconduct for such an egregious dive.

 

[ottawagm]

Everyone calling for a suspension for a head shot. What do you call an elbowing penalty that hits something other than a player's head?

Should we suspend high sticks now because they are also head shots?

 

[Legion34]

You seem to be under the impression that any head impact is an automatic penalty. This is not at all true.

Reaching out to chicken wing a player in the head is and always is.

See domi/neidermeyer.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Tavares ran into a defender who had established position and didn't move

It's funny how many people are incorrectly seeing and stating this...Zub took a big stride to his left to meet Tavares in the slot area. (He starts posted up outside the hashmarks, ends up incide the faceoff circle if you draw a straight line from faceoff circle down to the goal line where it meets the hash marks).

It's not interference or anything, the only issue he he hit him in the head/face area.

 

[conFABulator]

1. Tavares basically asks for the contact to happen. If Zub doesn't brace himself for it, he also gets knocked over.

2. I don't think there was direct head contact but there was a whiplash effect from Tavares not expecting the contact to happen.

This is all just a case of one player not seeing another and that other player bracing himself for the hit. Nothing more.

(1) That literally makes no difference in how these are viewed by the league. There is nothing a person could do to "ask for" and elbow to the head

(2) Possibly, if DOPS has more angles and better footage and determines it was not a hit to the head then I ha e zero issue with this hit

 

[Bozak42]

My issue with this hit is contact to the head was avoidable. There was somewhat of a similar play earlier this season with Knies and Nick Dowd. Knies tucks his elbow in and brings his arm down, while Zub extends his elbow. I don’t think Zub is dirty nor do I think he intended on head contact, but the head contact was there. I’d probably suspend him in the regular season, but a fine in the playoffs

 

[PB37]

(1) That literally makes no difference in how these are viewed by the league. There is nothing a person could do to "ask for" and elbow to the head

(2) Possibly, if DOPS has more angles and better footage and determines it was not a hit to the head then I ha e zero issue with this hit

If a player puts himself in a position where he receives head contact because of the positioning of his body made head contact unavoidable, the league won't suspend a player and rarely a penalty is called. We've seen this many times and it's in the rulebook.

 

[Kegu]

That would be a fair answer. Again, I am not sure I see it that way but am aware I am viewing through Leaf coloured glasses.

However, even if the head contact was incidental or not intentional, Rule 48 makes clear that a hit where the head is the main point of contact — and where that contact was avoidable — can still be penalized or reviewed for discipline.

Honestly, this is my point. Based on this rule the league should be looking at it. I would be OK with them saying we looked at it and no further penalty or a $2K fine or whatever. The silence on it from the league (so far), the media, even HF Boards (until this thread) was confusing to me.

can still be penalized or reviewed for discipline.
1. They don't have to review it.
2. They don't have to tell you that they did review it and deemed it not worth of supplemental discipline.

Would you be okay with them reviewing it but not telling you?

 

[Il Stugotz]

Maybe a 2 minute elbowing minor, hard to tell. Tavares should’ve been watching where he was going, but he wasn’t selling imo

 

[nORRis8]

Hmmm....looks familiar